Goran_M Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 This is the reason why we don't like announcing release dates (see shoutbox in below images). Please read more below the images... Some important discussions came about late last night through private discussion channels about certain, popular flight situations for a large portion of our customer base. There were some valid points made for this particular argument which has made us consider adding a few more features in order to accommodate these people. This is a very last minute, yet important decision that was not originally planned for. It's extremely annoying to see people make such posts when they are completely uninformed about the circumstances surrounding this delay, when we have our customers best interests at heart...particularly on release day. It's not an addition we even remotely anticipated, but we felt it was ultimately needed based on the importance and urgency from the individual who sent me the PM, quite literally at the 11th hour. This is not an extended delay. We're talking DAYS. In saying all of this, and taking into account the images that I posted, we will NOT be announcing release dates in the future, under any circumstances. We have worked far too hard and sacrificed many areas of our lives to get this aircraft finished as quickly as possible and to make it as complete as possible. 5
Yidahoo Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 Unfortunately, for some people, their entire lives appear to revolve around release dates for flight sim products. I, too am eagerly awaiting the Saab, but unlike some, my fingers are not hovering over the refresh button awaiting news. Release when it's ready, and I, like most sane flight simmers will happily buy it. 4
Ben Russell Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 1 week in 3 years is 0.64 % ...perspective. It's a wonderful thing. 4
BWolf7 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 The shoutbox is insanity...I am surprised that the fish guy wasn't banned on the spot.
Cameron Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 This is just another affirmation that anything Steven Winslow ever tries to say is a light hearted poke and apologizes for is pure rubbish. Didn't believe him then, don't believe him now. 1
Goran_M Posted September 12, 2013 Author Report Posted September 12, 2013 I honestly do not mind if people prefer to sit at a computer and keep checking on the status of a flight sim add on that is nearing release. That's entirely their prerogative (I used to do the same thing in my FS9/FSX days). What I DO mind, is some of those same people losing patience and accusing Theo, Jim, Cameron and myself of creating vaporware when we don't hit the release date. My wife and child have asked me for release dates long before anyone here has, and I can't even tell them, purely because I don't know. We posted a release week because we saw everything was on the cusp of being done and would not take more than a week to complete. Then I get a PM from one of the testers who noticed a system was modeled slightly incorrectly. Then I get an email from another tester who used to fly the Saab 340 and whose wife is a Saab 340 Captain (and is astounded at how realistic ours is) giving us more information that can be described as tying up a loose end.Calling it vaporware will not make us finish it any sooner. Try that at x-plane.org with one of their products (like the 757 which was promised in June and delayed for reasons NOT linked to Laminar whatsoever...as was originally claimed) and see how far you get. I can promise you, the ban stick will hit you so hard and fast, it will make your head spin. We have worked on the Saab, LITERALLY every single day since last June. I speak to Jim, Theo and Cameron on a daily basis when it comes to work on the Saab. Some systems have taken months to create. Example: The throttle quadrant/Condition Levers took 3 to 4 months of 7 days a week of researching, programming and testing. As satisfied as we are with the Saab, we sometimes need the input of an outside enthusiast, and that came in the form of a private conversation I had very recently which I brought Cameron in to, to see what we could do about it. So now we're all working to have this addition included with the initial release so everyone who flies the Saab can take advantage of it as soon as it is installed...instead of waiting for an update that will come some time in the future at a date I couldn't even guess. To those who are showing patience and understanding, I speak for everyone on the team when I say THANK YOU! Your patience will be rewarded! With this latest addition we are working on, even more of you will be pleased. To those of you who keep insisting this is vaporware...there's not much more to say except that what you are doing will not make us finish it any sooner. It only serves to cause frustration and further delays. 4
Mario Donick Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 Thanks for the status update. What are those popular flight situations you are referring to?
Cameron Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 Thanks for the status update. What are those popular flight situations you are referring to? Items which will be described once we have formed a solution and deal with an idea given the limitations of the environment of a sim platform. Making life easy is part of the process (example being our virtual checklist menu).
steven winslow Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 Calling it vaporware will not make us finish it any sooner. Try that at x-plane.org with one of their products (like the 757 which was promised in June and delayed for reasons NOT linked to Laminar whatsoever...as was originally claimed) and see how far you get. I can promise you, the ban stick will hit you so hard and fast, it will make your head spin.Well, we'll see what happens. I just added the 757 to my personal list of "vaporware" and affirmed that in the shoutbox. I know the Saab release is imminent and I'm not here or anywhere else to question your work or the hours you've spent making the next big thing (and probably will be for quite a while) for X-Plane. Truly the Saab looks to be an amazing leap and I commend you. I have no malice in my heart for the Saab or anyone connected to it nor am I discounting the countless hours that have gone into it, but until it exists on more than a handful of hard drives, it's still vaporware to me.
Hueyman Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 I do not understand anymore those madness around a file release nowadays ... This is probably the most anticipated release of the decade, but dudes, it will surely be there within a month, so why demotivating and frustrating the hard working mans that LES are ? Why don't you go outside, make some jogging, sports, read on real aviation ( to understand how LOOOOOOONG real projects takes ... ) etc etc. IMHO, the best way to fully enjoy a product from the early start is to know it quite well, and don't launch an in-flight situation to throw it around, but directly starting from cold and dark, knowing the systems well and having printed all required checklists ... I know the LES 340A PDF manual is not out yet ( sadly ) but you will surely be able to find some real doc on google isn't it ? 2
woweezowee Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 Lucky me! Thanks to the delay I might have my X-Plane ready to go again on release day!
pryoski Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) We have worked on the Saab, LITERALLY every single day since last June. I speak to Jim, Theo and Cameron on a daily basis when it comes to work on the Saab.Some systems have taken months to create. Example: The throttle quadrant/Condition Levers took 3 to 4 months of 7 days a week of researching, programming and testing. I feel your consternation my friend and I TRULY appreciate what the LES Team and X-Aviation are doing! Forget the negativity ... it's just squashed bugs on the windscreen on the long haul through a development cycle . You are ALL doing a bang up job .. no doubts in my mind and anyone who's attempts to hold you to a schedule is a fool! Don't fall for it ... Cheers, Kris P. Edited September 12, 2013 by Kris Pryo 2
AtomicFrawg Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 Well, we'll see what happens. I just added the 757 to my personal list of "vaporware" and affirmed that in the shoutbox. I know the Saab release is imminent and I'm not here or anywhere else to question your work or the hours you've spent making the next big thing (and probably will be for quite a while) for X-Plane. Truly the Saab looks to be an amazing leap and I commend you. I have no malice in my heart for the Saab or anyone connected to it nor am I discounting the countless hours that have gone into it, but until it exists on more than a handful of hard drives, it's still vaporware to me.You sir are an Ass. 2
Hueyman Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) You sir are an Ass. This is not the rant section guys ... Edited September 12, 2013 by Hueyman 1
clavel9 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 I'm always amazed at the patience of developers, not just the SAAB team, but throughout the community. I don't think I would have anything like the resilience required to stick with something for several years and having to deal with all the frustration and obstacles that must be overcome to drive the project towards the line as well as constant questions about progress, delivery dates, requests for screenshots, videos, etc, etc. I don't know whether the SAAB team's primary source of income will be from sales, or whether they have other work that has to be kept going too, but fair play to you all. Shoutbox? THAT should be suspended. It's just asking for trouble. 4
Claude D Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) At the end of patience, there is the sky. (African proverb). Edited September 12, 2013 by Leglaude 4
andydckent Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 Just wanted to say, in case it has ever been misinterpreted, that any comments I have made on the SAAB this week have been light hearted (and I hope that was clear) and are meant to express how much I am looking forward to the release and not anything else or nagging about the release date or anything. I think that that is probably true for the majority of comments that have been made on the project this week and over the past few years and I am sure that many may have been misinterpreted as criticism. Sure there are some 'frustrated' kids (or not so young kids) out there who have not yet realised that good things come to those who wait, there always will be but most people appreciate the hard work and blood, sweat and tears which is obviously going into this project to get it 'just so' and simply can't wait to get their hands on it. In terms of announcing the impending release this week and what might be announced when in the future. I think it was a good decision to announce it and it has got the community buzzing with anticipation, most reasonable people will understand and accept minor setbacks. In terms of the future it is important to realise that we live in and information age and people crave to know what is going on. In my view it is therefore best that developers spend some time, as they have on projects like this and the 737, keeping their customers up to date with progress, and delays, as the majority will greatly appreciate this information and feel more involved with the project as a whole. There will always be trolls out there on any internet forum, it’s a very sad state of affairs and I feel sorry for these people, but please do not let them spoil it for the rest of us. Thank you for your hard work and I look forward to flying the SAAB in due course! Andy
AtomicFrawg Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 This is not the rant section guys ...That was not a Rant.... That was calling it like I see it. 3
PWJT8D Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 I'm a believer in it's done when it's done. The ones who pester and beg for new info and release dates and so on annoy the hell out of me and I can't imagine how much it annoys a developer. Thus the reason why I have my extremely sarcastic signature compiled of the many requests that take place over and over. 1
ss8913 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Posted September 12, 2013 heh.. I made a joke about the a320neo being like a mime, in that it was French and was trying to kill me (the AIRAC cycle I was using had incorrect crossing altitudes for one of the STARs into KLAS and almost flew me into a mountain, and it likes to dive at the runway unexpectedly under certain wind conditions with the A/P on, at least in the version I was using back in may when this happened), and the moderator at x-plane.org apparently banned me from the shoutbox. so yeah, I'm kind of surprised that calling the developers' work 'vaporware' is ok but making a joke isn't. I even PMed the moderator and apologized, which he didn't reply to, and I still am apparently banned from 'shoutbox' 4 months later.
Nicola_M Posted September 13, 2013 Report Posted September 13, 2013 I think some people think Beta testing means it's being released within the next 24 hours. They don't seem to appreciate that one unseen bug may arise which then needs to be rectified, putting the release day back however long until it's fixed.I'm with the rest - it's released when it's released. PS. To me "Vaporware" is something that has been started - and then been given up on. As Goran, Theo and Cameron are still beavering away to get the Saab out, it doesn't come under that description. 3
Ben Russell Posted September 13, 2013 Report Posted September 13, 2013 If you want a prime example X-A Vapourware just refer to the CRJ which was officially, publicly, cancelled. Only to be finished off in peace and released to go on to become easily one of the most popular X-Plane products ever. And who published it? X-A. 2
LA Posted September 13, 2013 Report Posted September 13, 2013 PS. To me "Vaporware" is something that has been started - and then been given up on. As Goran, Theo and Cameron are still beavering away to get the Saab out, it doesn't come under that description. I agree, 100%. 1
birdy.dma Posted September 13, 2013 Report Posted September 13, 2013 I'm a believer in it's done when it's done. The ones who pester and beg for new info and release dates and so on annoy the hell out of me and I can't imagine how much it annoys a developer. Thus the reason why I have my extremely sarcastic signature compiled of the many requests that take place over and over. Miss one in your signature: I can't wait., and may be: how much ? Claude.
mike10 Posted September 15, 2013 Report Posted September 15, 2013 (edited) Why even worry about what those idiots over at the .org have to say? I rather wait for a completed detailed product like the saab then purchase one of the .org rushed hacked " ahh it's good enough" planes. Been down that road... Nick will never see another dollar from me.. LOL I see good old steve winslow is in there.... What ever happened to that guy? Nick won't let him come here anymore? If he is banned can he please be unbanned... It was pure comedy reading his posts where he tries to pretend he is not a .org rumpswab while promoting and defending the .org LOL Edited September 15, 2013 by mike10
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