Systems and Tech CL650

[Bulat]

There are a few questions for your wonderful aircraft:
1.Can I find out when there will be a full-fledged RW image in synthetic visibility mode on PFD?
2. Will all airfields be displayed in the field of view of synthetic visibility or only airfields from FPL?
3. Will smoke appear from under the wheels on landing?
Thanks for attention.

[JRBarrett]

5 hours ago, Bulat said:

There are a few questions for your wonderful aircraft:
1.Can I find out when there will be a full-fledged RW image in synthetic visibility mode on PFD?
2. Will all airfields be displayed in the field of view of synthetic visibility or only airfields from FPL?
3. Will smoke appear from under the wheels on landing?
Thanks for attention.

Synthetic visibility mode in the real aircraft does not show a “RW” image - for that you would need a nose-mounted camera. The word synthetic means just what it says. The image is artificially constructed from a terrain database. SV mode in the sim works exactly as it does in the real aircraft.

There are some aircraft that have an option for a nose-mounted infrared camera that will overlay an image of the “real” world on the PFD, but that option is not available on the Challenger.

[ois650]

8 hours ago, Bulat said:

3. Will smoke appear from under the wheels on landing?

Depends how hard you land 

[Bulat]

Here in the nose of the CL 650 aircraft I saw some kind of camera. Does it relate to synthetic visibility equipment? Why did they forget to put it on the Hot Star CL 650?

[Ben Russell]

It's not possible to do with X-Plane 11.

[Cameron]

4 hours ago, Bulat said:

Here in the nose of the CL 650 aircraft I saw some kind of camera. Does it relate to synthetic visibility equipment? Why did they forget to put it on the Hot Star CL 650?

It was not forgotten. That is an optional add-on, and is not on all 650's from the factory. A google image search of the 650 will probably show you right away that most any 650 does not have this.

The camera is infrared for the EVS (Enhanced Vision System), and It provides images of the approach, runway lighting, and of terrain scenery that's viewed on the pilot's HUD and on the co-pilot's multi-function display.

It was considered for the add-on, but determined not something that could be implemented due to limitations in X-Plane.

[DanielR]

Why are the EVS controls on the glareshield still there then? Do they exist in the real thing too even when no EVS option is installed?

[Cameron]

1 hour ago, DanielR said:

Why are the EVS controls on the glareshield still there then? Do they exist in the real thing too even when no EVS option is installed?

The hope is to eventually bring it in with XP 12 if it allows, but we don't know if that's possible yet.

As the EVS could be retrofitted after delivery, it wouldn't shock me if they shipped it on the panel, but I don't actually know if they do. I just know that we originally intended for it and couldn't make it work with X-Plane 11, so the controls were modeled. @Goran_M will know more about that.

[Bulat]

On 1/30/2022 at 6:00 PM, JRBarrett said:

 

 

 

On 2/5/2022 at 8:12 PM, Cameron said:

It was not forgotten. That is an optional add-on, and is not on all 650's from the factory. A google image search of the 650 will probably show you right away that most any 650 does not have this.

The camera is infrared for the EVS (Enhanced Vision System), and It provides images of the approach, runway lighting, and of terrain scenery that's viewed on the pilot's HUD and on the co-pilot's multi-function display.

It was considered for the add-on, but determined not something that could be implemented due to limitations in X-Plane.

 

 

Now it is clear to me that it is difficult to simulate the runway at the MFD 

 

 

 

 

and this will be possible only in X-Plane 12.
But I now understand that the developers from AEROBACK for the Phenom 300 aircraft have overtaken time and made a miracle for much less money?

AEROBASK Phenon 300 on RW.docx

[Ben Russell]

15 minutes ago, Bulat said:

Now it is clear to me that it is difficult to simulate the runway at the MFD 

Phenon 300 SVS X-Plane11.avi 458.68 kB · 1 download  

 

Phenon 300 SVS X-Plane11.avi 458.68 kB · 1 download  

 

Phenon 300 SVS X-Plane11.avi 458.68 kB · 1 download  

 

and this will be possible only in X-Plane 12.
But I now understand that the developers from AEROBACK for the Phenom 300 aircraft have overtaken time and made a miracle for much less money?

AEROBASK Phenon 300 on RW.docx 1.9 MB · 1 download

SVS and EVS are not the same thing.

[Ben Russell]

17 minutes ago, Bulat said:

Now it is clear to me that it is difficult to simulate the runway at the MFD 

Phenon 300 SVS X-Plane11.avi 458.68 kB · 1 download  

 

Phenon 300 SVS X-Plane11.avi 458.68 kB · 1 download  

 

Phenon 300 SVS X-Plane11.avi 458.68 kB · 1 download  

 

and this will be possible only in X-Plane 12.
But I now understand that the developers from AEROBACK for the Phenom 300 aircraft have overtaken time and made a miracle for much less money?

AEROBASK Phenon 300 on RW.docx 1.9 MB · 1 download

The Phenom is probably using the SVS library/code from Saso, the author of the TBM and the CL650.

Here's an old video of the TBM showing the SVS with a runway, which is what you're trying to make a point about.

 

Old news. Video is from 30 Nov 2019.

The CL650 has the SVS system as well and I can't be bothered finding a video clip featuring a runway in it to satisfy you. You can do that yourself.

[Pils]

58 minutes ago, Ben Russell said:

The Phenom is probably using the SVS library/code from Saso, the author of the TBM and the CL650.

It’s actually using their own implementation (by OscarPilote, of Ortho4XP fame) that was originally done for their new Falcon 8X project, so looks totally different (wrong) compared to the G1000’s.

[Cameron]

1 hour ago, Bulat said:

But I now understand that the developers from AEROBACK for the Phenom 300 aircraft have overtaken time and made a miracle for much less money?

As has been stated, what you are showing from Aerobask is NOT EVS. That is SVS. We have that in the 650, and it's also in the TBM 900. EVS is the topic here, and it's not possible to implement properly in XP 11.

 

[Peter Clark]

6 hours ago, Cameron said:

As has been stated, what you are showing from Aerobask is NOT EVS. That is SVS. We have that in the 650, and it's also in the TBM 900. EVS is the topic here, and it's not possible to implement properly in XP 11.

AKA FLIR?

[Cameron]

53 minutes ago, Peter Clark said:

AKA FLIR?

No. FLIR is thermal based. This is quite a bit different.

[Bulat]

My question was simple: the picture of the RW differs from the view behind the cockpit on the Challenger 650.
I did not raise the question of the composition of the equipment on the aircraft and the technologies implemented, their options on the released aircraft and the terminology used; you yourself raised these problems and got into their discussion.
On your RW projection on MFD, the plane is perceived at an altitude of 40-50 feet, although it is standing on concrete at an altitude of "0". And this is very wrong for a high-precision flight simulator.
I just want to help you bring your wonderful expensive plane to a good level!

[Cameron]

13 minutes ago, Bulat said:

On your RW projection on MFD, the plane is perceived at an altitude of 40-50 feet, although it is standing on concrete at an altitude of "0". And this is very wrong for a high-precision flight simulator.

You are incorrect. The behavior you see in the simulator is accurate.

14 minutes ago, Bulat said:

I did not raise the question of the composition of the equipment on the aircraft and the technologies implemented, their options on the released aircraft and the terminology used; you yourself raised these problems and got into their discussion.

You asked about the camera on the nose. It was discussed for that reason.

[Bulat]

On 2/7/2022 at 2:09 AM, Cameron said:

Вы ошибаетесь. Поведение, которое вы видите в симуляторе, является точным.

I have the right to make mistakes, I am not an expert. But when you mislead naive buyers, is this also called a mistake? Do you have problems with displaying RW on MFD and can't solve them? I was asked and I upload a clip of how RW is displayed on MFD in PHENOM and CL650. In the first case, RW fills the entire MFD space, and in CL650 it remains a narrow ribbon, as at a flight altitude of 40-50f.

[Bulat]

 

 

[ois650]

1 hour ago, Bulat said:

I have the right to make mistakes, I am not an expert. But when you mislead naive buyers, is this also called a mistake? Do you have problems with displaying RW on MFD and can't solve them? I was asked and I upload a clip of how RW is displayed on MFD in PHENOM and CL650. In the first case, RW fills the entire MFD space, and in CL650 it remains a narrow ribbon, as at a flight altitude of 40-50f.

 

Comparing the real CL650 and the HS CL650 PFD when at 0 RA there is no difference with the runway display. If there is, it's a matter of pixels. 

"Misleading naïve buyers" is a strong accusation to make - feedback is always welcomed but unfounded comments like that are not. 

Your linked videos do not work, I would invite you to share a photo comparison of the real 650 and HS 650 PFDs showing where it is wrong. 

Best regards,

[Cameron]

4 hours ago, Bulat said:

Do you have problems with displaying RW on MFD and can't solve them?

No. As already told to you, our product displays the world properly already with synthetic vision, the same way it is on the real Challenger 650 aircraft.

To clarify, by RW do you mean RWY (Runway), or Real World? Maybe our language lines are getting crossed here.

4 hours ago, Bulat said:

I was asked and I upload a clip of how RW is displayed on MFD in PHENOM and CL650.

First off, as mentioned above, your videos do not work. Please upload in a format other than .avi.

Second, why do you keep trying to show what a Phenom does? It has nothing to do with what the real Challenger 650 does, or ours for that matter. A Phenom uses a Garmin G1000, whereas a Challenger 650 utilizes the ProLine avionics. These are entirely different companies and hardware. They don't do everything the same.

 

Real Challenger 650:

 

Hot Start Challenger 650:

 

The runway touches the lower corners of the screen at almost exactly the same points where it does in real life.

Please STOP with the accusations that we are misleading customers. As you've already stated, you're not an expert, but you come here acting like one even when you admit you "have the right to make mistakes." That's really not okay.

[Bulat]

07.02.2022 в 11:53 Булат сказал:

Мой вопрос был прост: изображение RW отличается от вида за кабиной на Challenger 650.
Я не ставил вопрос о составе оборудования на самолете и реализованных технологиях, их вариантах на выпускаемых самолетах и используемой терминологии; Вы сами подняли эти проблемы и вступили в их обсуждение.
На вашей RW-проекции на МФД самолет воспринимается на высоте 40-50 футов, хотя и стоит на бетоне на высоте «0». И это очень неправильно для высокоточного авиасимулятора.
Я просто хочу помочь вам вывести ваш замечательный дорогой самолет на хороший уровень!

 

332263571_RWMFD.docx

[Graeme_77]

@BulatThe G1000 SVS and ProLine SVS are totally separate systems. It's unreasonable to expect two different systems to have the same SVS just like it's not realistic to expect a Windows computer to run iPad software. Furthermore, the Phenom G1000 SVS is not an exact replica of the real G1000 SVS either. 

Please understand this is proper synthetic vision - a computer generated landscape from a terrain database, not a view from a camera on the nose of the aircraft.

Here's a screenshot of G1000 SVS, from the same developer as the CL650. It's not that they don't know how to do it, but simply what you are asking for is not what the real CL650 does. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Graeme_77

[rjb4000]

Why are you comparing the Collins Proline 21 SVS to a Garmin product? The Hot Start implementation looks exactly like the real one.

 

[Bulat]

 

Good afternoon Graeme_77!
It's nice to chat with you. The previous opponent uses aggressive rhetoric, constantly tries to divert the topic of conversation to the side, blurts out the essence of the issue, misleads, throws terminology and concepts that a simple person does not know. It's all read by people all over the world!
There was a corresponding RW video on YouTube fo Challenger 650! Please look at it. You will have to solve the problem with the RW projection in MFD!