Why so few aircraft?

[Hangar]

yep...that's what I do alright...I've spent the last 20 years or so online trolling as you say by reading every syllable of posts that strike a chord so that I can find a way somehow within those words to turn it and twist it the very best I can all in order to justify my own ignorance and continue feeling sorry for myself (which is why I put so much time into trolling!). You guys are comical.

 

...and no, Ben...I'm not talking out both sides of my face. I assure you I DO know what I'm talking about. I used to make my living by taking tiny little businesses just like some of you have here from making no money at all and turning them into viable companies that were not only able to pay the bills but also provided jobs to people.

 

Perhaps you just aren't understanding the point. X-plane has been around for more than 2 decades...how long has x-pilot been around for now maybe 5 or 6 years or something?...and x-plane.org...certainly more than 10 or 12?...and how about some of the many other who I know for a fact make no real money and have been around?? The POINT IS...this sim and many of the struggling sellers and resellers are NOT new startups....yet, most if not all of you are all lagging far behind in what you could have accomplished by now...and from what I've seen it's really not the fault of the X-plane software. In fact the software itself is probably alot better than FSX technically speaking.

 

If you can sit here day after day/year after year with deaf ears being so arrogant that you can't be bothered tuning into customer feedback (not just mine but from countless others all around the net posting their thoughts and feelings for years on end now) and maybe begin to realize that some changes need to be made for everyone's sake then you will simply continue to be left behind...especially if the FSX guys decide to step in...some of you will die off very quickly if that happens... yet there's no need for that.

 

You don't care to listen...that's too bad...but someone had to say it...I'm budding my nose in where it's not wanted because of the site I'm posting it on...but i'm honestly only trying to help you guys...ALL of us.

 

One last piece of friendly advice for those of you who don't get it yet...but seriously if you haven't figured this out on your own by now you have no future being self employed anyway, lol....your battle is not with FSX or P3D itself. It is with yourselves and you preconceived notions about what you THINK you are offering and the reality of what you REALLY ARE offering as compared to your only competition...which is the 3rd party devs and resellers in the FSX camp. You have in X-plane a very good base to build yourselves upon. Yet when it comes to business modeling, product and especially service things are pretty poor right now. Take it at face value.

 

Guys...feel free to contact me if you care to as I don't mind shooting the breeze and speaking a bit more in depth on the phone as time permits...I've already said more here than I should have bothered to...just trying to seriously wake you up and help, so no personal offense intended I can assure you of that.

 

Nite

[Ben Russell]

Some weeks I might get as much as two whole hours to spend on X-Plane related work.

 

There are many factors unseen and unspoken that contribute to lag times in my own personal situation.

 

 

Given an ideal situation we could indeed be far further ahead than we are but life is far from ideal.

 

 

Life is what happens while you're making plans.

[Goran_M]

2 hours for Ben?  He can code an entire system for an A380 in 2 hours!

[Ben Russell]

2 hours for Ben?  He can code an entire system for an A380 in 2 hours!

 

Only 'cause I spent years laying the foundations and building bridges so that others may pass.. 

[derekking]

Oh Ben! Such poetry you sensitive ‘Crafty Butcher’ you. More poetry please.

How about some aviation Poetry?

Is there any? 

[Oliver]

Oh Ben! Such poetry you sensitive ‘Crafty Butcher’ you. More poetry please.

How about some aviation Poetry?

Is there any? 

 

"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Leonardo da Vinci

[JGregory]

Oh Ben! Such poetry you sensitive ‘Crafty Butcher’ you. More poetry please.

How about some aviation Poetry?

Is there any? 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,

And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds, --and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of --Wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there

I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air...

Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace

Where never lark or even eagle flew --

And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

… John Gillespie Magee, Jr

[JohnMAXX]

Here I sit broken hearted......

 

 

Tried to poop and only farted.........

 

 

Ok Ill leave this thread with that bit of freshman humor.......

[sundog]

This thread has gone sideways in a rather glorious manner.

[chris k]

There was once a plane from Nantucket.....

[JeremyWM]

The quality of this conversation took a rather abrupt swerve into absurdity, but honestly I'd rather read a few dirty limericks then to have to hear Hangar prattle on about his "20 years" of experience in sales and marketing again. I don't care if you have 20 years of experience, the very basis of your argument is ridiculous and not based on fact. X-plane DOES have professional etailers making quality products for the marketplace. Carenado, FlyJSim, Alabeo, and X-Aviation are all well respected content creators. Soon we'll have the 737 Classic from IXEG which looks to be phenomenal and hopefully somewhat soon the first product from PMDG as well.

 

Is the X-plane market anywhere near as big as Microsoft Flight Simulator? No, of course not, not by long shot, but then Laminar is all of 6-10 people in South Carolina, not a multi-billion dollar international corporation. Gee, do you think that might have something to do with it maybe? Xplane is growing and so too are the developers. Do they wish they were bigger or growing faster? Sure, but as long as they make good products that sell well and sales continue to grow each year, they'll be doing just fine. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by JeremyWM

[greggerm]

There was once a plane from Nantucket.....

 

Who's sump drains could fill up a bucket.

[Hangar]

- the very basis of your argument is ridiculous and not based on fact.

- X-plane DOES have professional etailers making quality products for the marketplace. 

- Is the X-plane market anywhere near as big as Microsoft Flight Simulator? No, of course not, not by long shot, but then Laminar is all of 6-10 people in South Carolina, not a multi-billion dollar international corporation. Gee, do you think that might have something to do with it maybe? 

 

It's amazing how you can comment on this without even reading or comprehending my posts, doesn't surprise me of course...but you should really stick to what you know...whatever that is.

 

- actually it's based on customer feedback for the last 15 years...might want to have a look around the net...you can't make this stuff up.

 

- TBH out of the 2 or 3 really talented payware people who actually have their payware product currently on the x-plane market only 1 of them from what I've seen so far truly understand what's going on here and are actually using their brains when it comes to building their business and x-plane itself by actually bringing in some FSX'ers thru a new relationship he's forming with a successful FSX dev (ESDG)...that is LES (congrats to them, hope they do well)...too many other guys seem to be lost and stagnating for way too many years now. Some are even hurting the x-plane brand itself...I will refrain from naming anyone but again all you have to do is some serious reading/research to know who.

 

- and this one just shows how you're commenting without even reading because you should already be aware that my answer is NO...it is NOT the size of the x-plane team or the x-plane software that is to blame for the 3rd party x-plane devs struggling for so many years now...to a large extent, it is the lack of understanding and experience among the 3rd party folks in providing a reason to FSX'ers to come on over to x-plane. MS never built the market you see today...it was/is the 3rd party devs and resellers...and if x-plane ever really takes off (no pun) it'll be due to the 3rd party devs and sellers once again...well, the smart ones anyway...not the idiots who have been killing it lately. Oh and by the way smart-arse...the MSFS market IS the X-plane market....they are one in the same...wake UP!

Edited August 2, 2014 by Hangar

[Hangar]

Uhm...by the way...I know the 5 of you here think this site is pure gold and all...so would it be too much trouble to have the front page of X-plane news on this site updated a little more often?...It's been 6 friggen months already since the owner has bothered...might be a good idea to build things up around here...ya think?

[Ben Russell]

[JohnMAXX]

Hangar,

 

Im sorry but you are out in the Kepler belt,  I always suggest to opinionated individuals to go ahead and develop a flight simulator and run it the way it should be run.....

 

I wont even bring myself to read this baseless dreck it does nothing to improve upon our hobby.

 

 

Sorry

[G-ERTI]

Listen to Hangars experience. Clearly he knows what he is talking about. What he says is also backed up by the simple economic theory for the necessity of trust between two parties whilst making any kind of business venture or transaction.

The problem is all the power is in the court of the store owners, therefore the customers are not likely trust them and the whole thing falls apart. The owner has control as the customer cannot get his money back and in the case of most products cannot even tell others of the problems he/she has with it because posts they make will be removed. I know the last point does not apply to x-pilot, but at many other sites it does. To gain the trust of customers you need to listen to them and act on what they say. I think this is what Hangar is trying to say. To run a good business you need to be customer conscious, that is a basic fact, for too long people in the x-plane world don't seem to think this is necessary as they are running a 'niche'. Time to take a leaf out of every successful business. Care about your customers and make them feel safe to try and buy things, then they will trust you more and buy more from you. This does not necessarily apply to x-aviation in such a big way, but it certainly does to some other stores, again not necessarily x-plane ones either.

[Cameron]

You're only brushing a surface and minimally understanding, G-ERTI. There's a reason for a debate brewing in this topic. What you're saying (for the most part) is basic principles to which pretty much anyone and everyone could agree. 

 

What Hangar is saying is a bit more, well...more than what you're interpreting.

[G-ERTI]

I would be interested to hear what I have missed, as I am sure I have missed something! If these principals are so basic, why do so few flight sim companies run with them (including your own)?

[Cameron]

I would be interested to hear what I have missed, as I am sure I have missed something!

 

Feel free to re-read the posts in this thread. I'm certainly not going to break it down into simpler terms for you.

[G-ERTI]

He is saying the customer experience is awful and the way to solve that is for devs to cancel out the third party and make their own way. Therefore the bad ones die and the good ones live as they are not sheltered under a retail umbrella which will deal with the day to day sales.

Then he is saying the reason it is bad is because there is no way for the customer to have any control and the owners abuse their power. He/she cannot get a refund or even influence peoples views on the product. Just to make it clear by saying this I DONT mean you specifically, I am talking in very general terms. As a result this harms the brand in its entirety as the customer does not trust it.

Fill me in if I missed anything.

[JeremyWM]

So if what you seem to be saying is true, Hangar advocates for the de-listing of Xplane products from marketplaces such as X-plane.org (this one I agree should die off), X-aviation, Just Flight,and Aerosoft. Then each Xplane developer should "go their own way" and develop and release their products, market them, and do all of the customer support solely on their own. How exactly would this be desirable for a single person or even two people and really why would these people do this? What's wrong with a person or small team being able to focus all their time and efforts on doing what they love, creating add-ons, while letting another company deal with setting up the online marketplace and customer support forums?

 

Hangar, your little snide insults don't bother me in the least. Implying that I can't "comprehend" your posts and talking out the side of your neck by saying that I should just "stick to what I know...whatever that is" only serve to show that you are unable to hold a debate. Instead you must rely on personal insults to try to get your point across.

 

Yes I did read you posts, every word of them. I do know what you are saying, I simply disagree with you. Why did Microsoft Flight Simulator get so big? Having the backing of the Microsoft had a lot to do with it. Then also the hard working addon developers made amazing products which added the incredible longevity of the market we see today. Xplane has never had that kind of backing, that kind of mindshare with the public. For most of it's life it languished in the shadows as an inferior simulation in many respects. Version 10 has changed that, it is a much more robust platform for content creators to work on. Hence we've seen a many more fantastic addons available from numerous developers, many of whom have come over from FSX. There are talented people working on Xplane and the sim market will continue to perform well.              

[shishkabab]

Lock please.

[G-ERTI]

So if what you seem to be saying is true, Hangar advocates for the de-listing of Xplane products from marketplaces such as X-plane.org (this one I agree should die off), X-aviation, Just Flight,and Aerosoft. Then each Xplane developer should "go their own way" and develop and release their products, market them, and do all of the customer support solely on their own. How exactly would this be desirable for a single person or even two people and really why would these people do this? What's wrong with a person or small team being able to focus all their time and efforts on doing what they love, creating add-ons, while letting another company deal with setting up the online marketplace and customer support forums?

 

Hangar, your little snide insults don't bother me in the least. Implying that I can't "comprehend" your posts and talking out the side of your neck by saying that I should just "stick to what I know...whatever that is" only serve to show that you are unable to hold a debate. Instead you must rely on personal insults to try to get your point across.

 

Yes I did read you posts, every word of them. I do know what you are saying, I simply disagree with you. Why did Microsoft Flight Simulator get so big? Having the backing of the Microsoft had a lot to do with it. Then also the hard working addon developers made amazing products which added the incredible longevity of the market we see today. Xplane has never had that kind of backing, that kind of mindshare with the public. For most of it's life it languished in the shadows as an inferior simulation in many respects. Version 10 has changed that, it is a much more robust platform for content creators to work on. Hence we've seen a many more fantastic addons available from numerous developers, many of whom have come over from FSX. There are talented people working on Xplane and the sim market will continue to perform well.

They could still do what they love... It would be desirable for customers as devs would have to make BRILLIANT products to do well. Secondly the support would be very specific and likely to be quick. They could still market on forums (like pmdg do), developers would not have to pay for retail space either, all in all making the product cheaper to sell. It would also make it more competive which is good thing... I agree with your last point in the short term, but long term that is not likely to be an issue. Also making a website is not extremely difficult. Sites like weebly make it quite good fun!

[sundog]

When your potential customer base is FSX users, perhaps the small percentage of people who search for the right thing and stumble on your website, or read the right forum post, is enough to kickstart a real business. But X-Plane is much smaller, and so you need bigger guns to raise awareness of your product. The primary value resellers like X-Aviation bring is their customer database. With one email campaign, your product will be in front of a huge number of active X-Plane users instantly. The reach they have is orders of magnitude greater than what you could achieve on your own, and well worth their modest commission. Plus, having a first line of technical support means the developer can actually take a day off once in awhile.