X-Plane.org truly shocks me!

[Goran_M]

Jim, you were banned because you were a part of XPFW???

[Jim Kallinen]

Jim, you were banned because you were a part of XPFW???

Ask Cameron, he was starting it out at the time and they did not like the fact that it was sensed as competition. There was a mod over their named Chez Whitey who was real piece of work. 

We would post about it and that is when trouble started.

 

BTW, there were no payware products for X-Plane at this time.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Jim Kallinen

[JohnMAXX]

I like this thread BTW guys,  what I mean is I see some genuine concern........  I shake my head and wonder why it has to be so dramatic and problematic.......

 

I am going to speak specifically about 3rd party add-ons........

 

Competition is good for any venue, much of our economy is based on competition, it sparks innovation.  Amazon for instance lists products, from outside sellers, to make sure users get the most relevant products.  This approach allows all users to get the most relevant information.  This means the shopping experience is complete and users will automatically gravitate back to Amazon.

 

In X-Plane it is very similar, depending on what a user wants there are many options, limiting users to your own specific products isolates them from the broad and vibrant range of offerings.  Innovation is going on all over the place in X-Plane, the org only likes this if you sell through them. Honestly it doesn't matter where you buy this product, what matters is how it enhances the sim....The org could benefit greatly by letting these offerings flourish since it potentially brings in a larger user base.

Also if you look at the offerings at the org they really do follow a tired, old format without anything to be really excited about....

 

The reality is, and I speak from experience, if you do not sell through them you do not belong in X-Plane.  This kind of greed only hinders the advancement of our awesome sim.  

 

A good example for how to handle add-ons sold on other sites, AVSIM has a policy where developers cannot post product releases, fair enough, but the user base can talk about what they see across the web.  When this happens me as an AVSIM member can come in and talk with the user base about my product.  This is pretty cool, first off I love AVSIM and the people in the community and secondly I have the ability to provide input for my products.  I think the rules create a natural interaction with the community......

 

This works out for AVSIM, they broaden their X-Plane user base and keep up to date content about X-Plane on the site.  Same here on X-Pilot, I see product announcements from all over the web here but nobody is banned.  It keeps X-Plane moving in the right direction.....

 

Finally, and I have seen this, you have developers & a developers wife going around trying to justify the action instituted on the org, which really makes me sad.  This is the biggest affront to our community.  These individuals goto other outlets, be it forums or Facebook, and try to justify the greed by twisting words and making false statements.....

 

 

All this being said, flight simulation is fun why must it be so heavy at times?  Let us stay focused on the beauty of aviation and how the computer has brought flight to the masses.   Let us forget about greed and past transgressions and fully enjoy what X-Plane has to offer.........

Edited February 6, 2014 by JohnMAXX

[Jim Kallinen]

Jim, you were banned because you were a part of XPFW???

So was Dhruv and Cameron and Morten.

[Goran_M]

Like I said, just another day at the office for those guys.

[Peter T.]

I have been banned from the org for awhile now, I was confused actually.... I was banned for literally...no reason. I did post on the forums and complimenting devs at the time, and download files, but that's it.

Back in the days, I tried uploading the first version of LJPZ (From my already closed ALSG) on the org, and I immediately god very bad ratings purely for the reason being me publishing it with an .exe, the comments section getting "boos" etc etc etc....I was of course testing on ways to publish my work, i think an installer is a great way to make work look professional, I was much more naive at the time and did not think of users on other platforms. After that I stopped all activity on the forums, and then I got banned. I moved on and started to become active here....

Yes the Org forums is scary etc...But we just have to let go and move on, trying to argue with the mods through email etc wont help because they have made up their minds. 

[Goran_M]

I'm a little disappointed in the moderators at the org.  This whole topic has been about the moderating of the site, and not 1 single mod or developer has come forward to say anything about it.  Do they AGREE with the thread and know the org is being run badly but are too afraid to speak up?  

[eaglewing7]

Why should any person in a position of "authority" over at the .org comment on a thread like this?  Why the hell would someone want to put themselves into a thread like this?  

 

Lets face it, if someone decided to step into this, such as a mod, they would automatically become public enemy number one for most of the disgruntled members on this site, and in this thread. 

 

But hey, sounds like fun to me...  

[Goran_M]

Why shouldn't they?  There have been 1 or 2 instances at avsim where Cameron and XA were portrayed in a bad light from disgruntled customers.  Within hours, Cameron went over there to set the record straight and was praised for doing so.  

[Tom Knudsen]

 

Lets face it, if someone decided to step into this, such as a mod, they would automatically become public enemy number one

 

I believe they will be first gagged, then tied up and finally banned

[Nicola_M]

I believe they will be first gagged, then tied up and finally banned

 

Nope.  Cameron doesn't resort to their tactics.

[Tom Knudsen]

Nope, but xporg would

[puffy]

I understand the OP's original frustration and it sounds like many of us have had less than pleasant experiences with the forum moderators over "there."  I hope we can all keep this thread professional enough to cry our cries but toe the line on calling out individual people.  

[Cameron]

I hope we can all keep this thread professional enough to cry our cries but toe the line on calling out individual people.

 

Well written and agreed. Not sure why Ben Wolf would ever dislike such a post?

 

Anyways, thanks for the maturity you bring into this topic, puffy. While there's fragmentation in our hobby, the best we can do is learn to love what we have and move forward. Things will sort themselves out down the road.

[Hueyman]

Things will sort themselves out down the road

 

Absolutely, even if sometimes it takes a while ...

[ointment]

Please share the posts from community leaders and developers that you have found in these forums.  I haven't found any that I find rude or questionable.

I'm genuinely interested.

How about this one, Goran? If I hadn't seen it in these forums I would have thought it was a quote from the org shoutbox. Sounds a lot like something Brett would say over there.

Please keep your guesses to yourself. They do not help anyone.

That type of post is sure to encourage people to share their thoughts or pitch in to help others.

[Ben Russell]

The

 

How about this one, Goran? If I hadn't seen it in these forums I would have thought it was a quote from the org shoutbox. Sounds a lot like something Brett would say over there.


That type of post is sure to encourage people to share their thoughts or pitch in to help others.

 

Congratulations on leaving out all context.

 

The original post for those interested, is here: http://forums.x-pilot.com/topic/6238-silverlining-crashing-my-flights/?p=69497

 

 

 

 

I think you're drastically over-valuing the "contributions" of someone who wants to see their own name in lights while adding nothing but noise to the conversation.

 

The time invested by both customer and team members in diagnosing these issues is valuable and adds up FAST.

Having people spread false information is incredibly frustrating for all parties involved.

 

 

It would be nice if you'd get off your high horse and see that. Instead you chose to selective snipe at pathetic petty issues. Please find something else to do.

[Andyrooc]

I  looked for an "Unhelpful Suggestion Generator", but surprisingly could find one! Maybe that is why people are resorting to their own efforts?

 

This was vaguely unhelpful though: http://www.unhelpful.org

[ointment]

Tooshay, Ben. Goran asked for an example. I presented one. And you added another. Well played.

[Goran_M]

Your example is invalid.  

There is no way you can tell me that X-Pilot "staff" are even in the same area of being rude or disrespectful to customers and visitors as the org staff is.  

They even banned 2 of their own developers.  1 from the shoutbox and 1 from the entire site.

However, in saying that, by all means, if you think we're being rude or unhelpful, go to x-plane.org if you feel they're more helpful and courteous.  

[Ben Russell]

In the long term, which is worse?

 

- Posting purely for the purpose of being inflammatory.

You leave out any form of context in your quotation, it takes seconds to link.

Why obscure the facts? Give people the truth and let them make up their own minds.

This thread had been four days idle and was ready to die a nice natural peaceful death.

 

- Posting purely for the purpose of being direct but educational.

Users are posting detailed technical data.

Bug has already been acknowledged by ME as being MY bug. Two posts earlier.

 

The user I corrected contributed absolutely nothing but a random guess with no supporting facts evidence experience or EVEN any hint of evidence that they were in fact reading the actual thread.

 

There is absolutely no reason NOT to correct a user for being so immature.

It helps them grow.

 

It might be a bitter pill but in the context of the rest of the world it's nothing, a mosquito is more annoying. (and far more life threatening.)

 

 

Perhaps you weren't reading the thread either... 

[Ben Russell]

 

The next person who posts an org rant thread is a rotten egg.

[tonywob]

Seeing this post, it did come across as harsh, and is exactly the sort of thing seen all the time on x-plane.org.

 

You could have chosen just to ignore and move along, but instead you put the person down and probably made him/her feel like an idiot. To me, that's wrong and sad. You probably got the desired effect though, since they probably won't reply to you again. As a developer, ou should know that just because you've ruled out an issue and you know better, a user who isn't a developer, and trying to be helpful, doesn't know and was only wanting to contribute.

[Ben Russell]

I agree that I could've tried harder to actually teach them something rather than just shutting them down.

 

More along the lines of would be more polite, but probably not more constructive. 

Please read and understand the entire thread before attempting to help with technical support issues.

 

I have already acknowledged that the issue is mine, you are most definitely wrong with your advice.

The bug is not Mavericks and is in fact probably an obscure bug inside Gizmo as indicated by the console.txt file provided by the user with problems. 

 

Examples on how to read and understand the information in that file can be found

here here and here (not doing it now, Google yields a page of results that need to be filtered and I'm not putting in that time.)

 

Despite that; if in future you feel that you do have a solution worth posting, please provide support evidence, references and detail as to why you believe your advice is true and correct.

 

 

If the user can't read the actual thread, what makes you think they'd bother reading a reply to them that they will simply dismiss as "TL;DR, made me feel bad." ?

[Hueyman]

Okay,

 

I have a very simple question : What is so wrong with all of you X-Plane guys ?

 

Are you really fond of that kind of behavior or yourselves are adults enough to realize it's exhausting, useless, non-constructive etc ? Each one of you tries to prove he is right/he is the smartest guy out there/he is very skilled/his words should be taken as absolute truth because he do that for 15 years etc etc etc ...

 

Probably you should go out, meet some people and take some fresh air to change your black minds

 

 

Dudes, we are nothing, we are just some X-Plane flight simulator enthusiasts, and this should be taken as a HOBBY !!!!! Even if you are passionate regarding flight simulation, why need to be so serious and aggressive as soon as you meet someone who don't follow your way of seeing how things should be done ? Even if you feel highly skilled aviation or computer experts, you are not that much, even most skilled developers can barely earn a living with it so why don't relax and take it easy as it should be ? Do you NEED a flight simulator to earn and prorogate your various QT & QC's ? I don't think 5% of us actually need a simulator for a professional perspective, and even if it's the case, level D sims and real platforms are there for that purpose.

 

We are a small community and should help and tolerate each other instead of those pointless threads. We know the org sucks but why do we care ? Let em sink and bite the dust while X-Pilot could rise in blue skies and become an example of place everyone loves to be because of great attitudes, nice people, quality products and supports etc etc ... That's what it started to become but for a little while I have the feeling nervous minds comes and tend to splash everything up. Ben or Goran, I know you are part of the root of this great place that is X-Pilot and you unconsciously feel very concerned about it, but don't be so sensitive or you might be compared to Brett, the worst example on this planet.

 

I never encountered so much people so prides of themselves, of their reputation etc... Maybe it's a typical Internet behavior where you know you can't be actually seen while typing and throwing shlt behind your computer, but in the real life ( the only one that worth spending time probably ), I meet a lot of very professional people, fighter pilots, mechanics, propellers engineer, ATC controllers etc, who have dream careers and REAL knowledge and skills and who could have reason to be pride and express it... the fact is that they don't ! I've never seen persons as modest as army pilots for example, and they are part of the most highly skilled and experienced people in the aviation industry, so when I see you little geekys, that learned everything on the Internet ( in a very freestyle way of learning ) arguing because you tries to prove you are one genius Plane Maker engineer that created X things etc etc ... that's kinda laughable

 

Take it easy and smile, like all those good people do

 

 

Only good human relationship can built the biggest and greatest things

 

Don't we all want a better X-Plane ? So be better ourselves first !