Silencing the Autopilot Alarm

[jkieffer1957]

I've updated to v1.2 and have a question regarding silencing the autopilot alarm after you disconnect it or it faults. The pervious version worked well with the Saitek Panels Plug in and I could engage/disengage/silence the autopilot by mapping a key on my throttle (x-55) to the autopilot servos toggle. With the new update this mapping no longer works so I go to the center console and turn off autopilot there. But when I do that the autopilot disconnect alarm starts and I can't quite figure out how to clear it. The only way I have been able to silence is to engage the Autopilot again, which when I am on the ground seems silly. I know you don't support the Saitek Panels plugin and I am fine with using the aircraft the way it is now (which by the way is SUPERB!!!!). I just want  to silence that annoying AP Alarm.

 

Thanks for any help you can provide me with regards to this issue.

 

Respectfully

Jim Kieffer

Greenville NC

[Cameron]

The red autopilot disconnect button on the yoke will silence it.

[kneighbour]

Was about to ask the same question. I have done two flights now where that 8 ring auto pilot disconnect tone went on for the whole flight! It was driving me mad!!

 

Is this a bug or is it acting as you want?

 

The XP AP disconnect command (as jkieffer1957 mentioned) does not work, which is a real shame. Looking down to the center console is a real pain during flight. Might be better when I get my TrackIR (I hope).

 

I have been finding a number of problems....frustrating.

Edited June 19, 2015 by kneighbour

[Goran_M]

That's exactly how it is in the real aircraft.  It's a warning that the Autopilot is off and can only be silenced by pilot intervention.  

Please see Cameron's reply above.

[JGregory]

With the new update this mapping no longer works so I go to the center console and turn off autopilot there. But when I do that the autopilot disconnect alarm starts and I can't quite figure out how to clear it.

There is a custom command available in the Saab for the AP disco button on the control wheel.

 

I have been finding a number of problems....frustrating.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a "problem".  Please choose your words carefully so as not to mislead potential customers.

Edited June 19, 2015 by JGregory

[breadwild]

Was about to ask the same question. I have done two flights now where that 8 ring auto pilot disconnect tone went on for the whole flight! It was driving me mad!!

 

Is this a bug or is it acting as you want?

 

The XP AP disconnect command (as jkieffer1957 mentioned) does not work, which is a real shame. Looking down to the center console is a real pain during flight. Might be better when I get my TrackIR (I hope).

 

I have been finding a number of problems....frustrating.

 

Don't ya just hate it when simulators act like real airplanes?

 

Just set a view (CTRL-Numberpadkey) for a slightly zoomed out view of the yoke. 

[philipp]

This is a question I see popping up over and over again with all the advanced airplanes. In fact, with the 757 and 777 we have that several times a week: "I get this terrible noise every time I switch off the autopilot, how do I make it stop?"

 

I guess the underlying problem here is that people are so used to doing it wrong. I see that all the time I watch other people "flying" or rather "simming":

When they come down the ILS, at some point their mouse cursor reaches over to the AP master switch, or in Boeings, the disengage bar. I've acutally seen this with people flying elaborate home cockpit setups with hardware MCPs (like the Goflight). When they want to go to manual flight, their hand leaves the yoke, reaches over to the disengage bar and they flip it down.

 

This is SO NOT what you do when flying real planes: Your hand stays on the yoke, and you squeeze the AP DISC button with your thumb (or, on some yokes, with your index finger). Same with the autothrottle. No one lets go of the thrust levers and reaches up to the MCP to disarm the A/T. Instead you squeeze the A/T disc with the thumb on the throttle lever. On Airbusses, you sometimes see pilots squeezing the A/T triggers on both sides of the throttle with the thumb and pinky finger while holding the throttles with three fingers, matching them up with the little white dot on the EICAS.

 

From the Cessna 182 up to a B777 the AP DISC on the yoke is what you press. One time to actually disconnect the autopilot, a second time to silence the warning. Same with the A/T. First press of the button on the throttle turns off the A/T, second press cancels the EICAS warning (on the 777).

Get out of this habit of reaching for the disengage bar on the MCP for no reason. If you actuate the disengage bar on a Boeing, you get that blaring autopilot warning, and you cannot cancel it by resetting the bar! You have to press the AP DISC on the yoke to cancel the warning!

 

So, assign yourself joystick/yoke buttons for AP DISC. Get that habit of taking your hands off the yoke to reach for the mouse or the MCP out of your system. A pilot simply does not let go of the yoke when on final approach!

 

Sorry for the rant, but seeing people at FlightsimCon flying their thousands of dollar hardware setups like this, not having a yoke button for the AP, makes me want to cry.

[kneighbour]

That's exactly how it is in the real aircraft.  It's a warning that the Autopilot is off and can only be silenced by pilot intervention.  

Please see Cameron's reply above.

Which s a good thing, up to a point.

 

The problem for us virtual pilots is the we do not have any training. There is not even a POH or AFM. So we have to guess how most of the stuff works. And if every other plane in XP works a certain way, then you assume that the next aircraft will be the same. A real pilot spends months getting a type conversion - we do it in two flights!

 

In all of my XP aircraft one of the first things I do is try to hide the yoke. It usually hides the HSI or something anyway, and is a bit of a pain. A lot of us do not fly with yokes (but I do, so I don't have that excuse). In the case of the AP alarm, it never occurred to me to press a button on the yoke! Why would I? I don't fly the thing in real life, I never look at the yoke, and the manual never mentions anything about it.

 

I agree that the model should approach the real aircraft as much as possible. But this has to be tempered with the fact that we are sitting at a computer screen with poor flight hardware.

[kneighbour]

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a "problem". Please choose your words carefully so as not to mislead potential customers

Yes it does. It just does not mean it is a problem with the aircraft or modelling. But it is still a problem to me.

 

I have refrained from doing much posting with my 'problems' as I am aware that most of them are my lack of knowledge of the aircraft and that it is different from other aircraft in XP.

 

The problem - as I see it - is that buying aircraft in XP is a crapshoot. It is very expensive - I have spend hundreds on aircraft - 90% of which is wasted. As a prospective customer of an aircraft I search these forums for feedback from other users and also Youtube for videos. I WANT to see what the 'problems' are and if they are resolved.

 

Other new users will have the same problems I am having. There is no doubt about that. The AP disconnect alarm mentioned here is just one. I am betting that a LOT of users would not have known to press a button on the yoke to silence that. Now they know. I for one am thrilled that I now know this (truely). It has made my day! You can imagine what it is like to fly for an hour with that alarm blaring in your ear continuously - it is not pleasant.

 

I search these forums every day to see if other users are having the same issue(s) I am - and what the solution is. And you should know - posting an issue can be a daunting challenge. First of all, you don't want to annoy the developers. Then you don't want to annoy other users (like what happened here).

 

Then, of course, you don't want to appear stupid.  Please have some patience with us new users.

[Cameron]

and the manual never mentions anything about it.

 

I don't know what to tell you, Kerry. The manual does talk about the A/P disconnect on pages 194/195, including the audible calvary charge and associated warnings that come with the sound. So, given this, you could have either read the manual or contacted us to say "I read the manual but am not sure where the A/P disconnect button is." I'll say that it doesn't mention the sound clearing with it, but considering the sound is part of the annunciator warnings, this is what is to be interpreted.

 

Instead you came on here asking (and even insinuating) if the sound was a bug, when the manual clearly discusses disabling the warnings (indicating it is possible).

 

To quote the manual:

 

A/P Disconnect Pushbuttons

When either A/P Disconnect button is initially pressed, the autopilot and yaw damper disengage, the AP and YD engage levers return to the DISENGAGED position, and a red AP and a yellow YD annunciator in a box flash on each EADI. Also, when the autopilot disengages, an aural warning (cavalry charge) sounds. Pushing the button a second time stops the flashing, changes the AP annunciator to white, and removes the YD annunciator. 

 

 

Overall it's not a big deal, and I suppose some take it for granted, but pretty much every aircraft (as Philipp has stated) works this way or similar, so I think it's easy sometimes for us to assume anyone purchasing an add-on this serious would know it. We'll try to remember to be easy, but you also need to remember that in a digital age where words are stored in online search engine databases, labeling things as "problems" which are really not can be damaging.

[JGregory]

Yes it does. It just does not mean it is a problem with the aircraft or modelling. But it is still a problem to me.

As I said... "Please choose your words carefully".  Saying ... "I have been finding a number of problems....frustrating." ... is different than saying ...  "But it is still a problem to me."  You cannot assume that others feel these things are "problems" for them. Some may, but certainly not ALL of them  And, as Cameron has pointed out above.. the AP disco that you are describing as a "problem", is not a problem at all and is clearly documented in the manual.  Reporting "real" issues is not annoying to us.  Reporting something that is a "problem" for you, and then claiming that there is no documented answer to your "problem" when there clearly is, can definitely be annoying.  I think we are very patient.  We simply ask that you be careful in how you describe things so that all other users can clearly understand what you are describing.

[kneighbour]

Instead you came on here asking (and even insinuating) if the sound was a bug, when the manual clearly discusses disabling the warnings (indicating it is possible).

I did no such thing. I said "Is this a bug or is it acting as you want?". No insinuation or anything. Simple question. But what if it was a bug? What is wrong with that? Surely you don't think any software is bug free? I am a software developer myself, and I can assure you that there is no such thing. And I am sure readers of this forum would not recoil in horror if there was such a bug. What people like to see is a measured response and perhaps a fix down the track.

 

I read that text that you quoted and it is still not clear to me from the text  1. what the A/P Disconnect button is. 2. that pressing this unknown button a second time clears the audio warning.

 

Now that I know (from this forum), all is good.

 

Mind you, there is another problem there (mapping the disconnect function to a yoke button), but I guess will work that out myself.

Edited June 20, 2015 by kneighbour

[JGregory]

Mind you, there is another problem there (mapping the disconnect function to a yoke button), but I guess will work that out myself.

Why is this is a "problem" ?

[Goran_M]

On a side note, Kerry, I would appreciate it if, echoing Jim's  and Cameron's statements, that you choose carefully how you word your comments.  

You DID say...

 

 

 

I have been finding a number of problems....frustrating.

 

This can be a damaging statement to us and our product when people are considering purchasing the Saab, who could inadvertently misinterpret your comments

This new update has been 8 months in the making.  And on top of that, it's free.  

We take pride in our work, and if any issues arise, we immediately look at the problem and work to resolve it.

In saying all this, we feel your question has been answered and we hope you enjoy flying this add on.

[kneighbour]

Overall it's not a big deal, and I suppose some take it for granted, but pretty much every aircraft (as Philipp has stated) works this way or similar, so I think it's easy sometimes for us to assume anyone purchasing an add-on this serious would know it. We'll try to remember to be easy, but you also need to remember that in a digital age where words are stored in online search engine databases, labeling things as "problems" which are really not can be damaging.

 

This is probably a bit off topic (and I am not even the OP). You are right - developers know their aircraft so well they assume every user will see their product they same way they do. But they don't. I had a thought today that when you assemble your beta team, you should make an effort to get at least one first time user (for that aircraft). They see things differently to experienced pilots. I develop software as well, and I try for exactly that. I get one of the girls in the office - completely new to the software, to sit down and play with it. The results are often surprising.

 

The other thing is the documentation is really very limited. It is nothing like what a real pilot would use when trying to learn the aircraft, so it unfair to expect that we would know every little thing. It would be great to get real manuals - or at least sections of them. I am thinking of the STMA PC12 here, or the A320neo or PMDG in FSX as good examples. But even with the full manuals, what armchair pilot has the time to fully learn every little thing? None of us, I am guessing.

 

You are also equating "problem", with "bug" and you seem to think that both things are a bad thing. They are not. It might just be me, but I do not see bugs (if there are any) as an issue. XP itself has so many "problems" that a few small issues with a particular aircraft (again, if any) are as nothing. I think what is a real turn off for people is the response from the developers to any issue raised. That is how I look at it, but I am a developer as well, so perhaps my view is biased.

 

As a developer myself, I love it when users give me feedback - and I love it more when that feedback is negative. I am not saying anything about this product - just in general. At one point we gave rewards to customers who gave us negative, but constructive feedback.

[Ben Russell]

Not all issues are problems.

Some are misunderstandings.

Some are intentional features and some are actual bugs which would be a problem.

 

 

problem

 

1.

a matter or situation regarded as unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome.

 

 

issue

 

1.

an important topic or problem for debate or discussion.

 

 

You may feel that we're being pedantic but the difference between problems and issues is as important as the different between "user feedback" and "user whinging".

 

 

We like your feedback, and we hope you feel that we value your feedback.

[Ben Russell]

It may also interest you that "office girls" literally defined software "engineering" as a respected discipline.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_(scientist)

[kneighbour]

Why is this is a "problem" ?

Because for every other aircraft, I have a yoke button mapped to 'servos_fdir_yawd_trim_off'. I can certainly map this button to whatever the custom command in the 340A is. But then I have to remember that, then remember to change it back when I fly some other aircraft.

 

Not an insurmountable problem, of course. And I might eventually have to use something like Xassign, I guess.

[kneighbour]

 

Not all issues are problems.

Some are misunderstandings.

Some are intentional features and some are actual bugs which would be a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may feel that we're being pedantic but the difference between problems and issues is as important as the different between "user feedback" and "user whinging".

 

 

We like your feedback, and we hope you feel that we value your feedback.

 

Ok - will try to use the word 'issue' in future. To be frank, no, I do not feel comfortable providing feedback. Might use the online/email support a bit more.

[JGregory]

Because for every other aircraft, I have a yoke button mapped to 'servos_fdir_yawd_trim_off'. I can certainly map this button to whatever the custom command in the 340A is. But then I have to remember that, then remember to change it back when I fly some other aircraft.

 

Not an insurmountable problem, of course. And I might eventually have to use something like Xassign, I guess.

if we provide a way for you to use your existing mapping, would that satisfy your needs?

 

OK, I have added a feature where you can use the XP commands to trigger the AP disco.  If you map to any of the following commands, you will get proper functionality of the Saab AP disco:

 

"sim/autopilot/servos_fdir_off"

"sim/autopilot/servos_fdir_yawd_off"

"sim/autopilot/servos_fdir_yawd_trim_off"

 

Hope that helps!

Edited June 20, 2015 by JGregory

[kneighbour]

 

if we provide a way for you to use your existing mapping, would that satisfy your needs?

 

OK, I have added a feature where you can use the XP commands to trigger the AP disco.  If you map to any of the following commands, you will get proper functionality of the Saab AP disco:

 

"sim/autopilot/servos_fdir_off"

"sim/autopilot/servos_fdir_yawd_off"

"sim/autopilot/servos_fdir_yawd_trim_off"

 

Hope that helps!

 

That is good news indeed!

 

If I could also suggest - it seems a good thing if you could map as many commands to XP as you can. For example, the hardware switches I have setup to toggle the lights (landing, taxi, etc) and 'Fast Seat belts' no longer work. I am guessing that a lot of us do this.

[JGregory]

That is good news indeed!

 

If I could also suggest - it seems a good thing if you could map as many commands to XP as you can. For example, the hardware switches I have setup to toggle the lights (landing, taxi, etc) and 'Fast Seat belts' no longer work. I am guessing that a lot of us do this.

No promises.

[Ben Russell]

There is small gizmo limitation at the moment where the LES team cannot provide a full function mapping into sim/ commands.

 

The AP disco button issue is extremely common and the side effect of the new mapping only affects the yoke button "pop out" animation.

 

 

Other features of the Saab are not so simple and may not be suitable for override mapping with Gizmo64 14.12.31.0101...

 

This bug in Gizmo64 is something I intend to fix in future. It's on the list in the low priority basket.

[flydav]

Sorry I don't get it...I'm having the same problem with the AP warning don't know if this has anything to do with what Ben just said about Gizmo...anyway, I assigned the AP functions to the Sim commands for plugin in x plane's joysticks assignments and it works as it should, it engages or disengage the AP but if I click a second time to silence the warning nothing happens and if I keep it pressed it reengages the AP. Also if I use the mouse instead to click on the area where the AP and YD levers are nothing happens either, AP goes on or off but the warning is still on. Am I missing something here? Thanks

[JGregory]

Am I missing something here? Thanks

YES!, you are!  As explained several times in this thread, to silent the AP disco warning you press the (red) button on THE YOKE.  That is the ONLY way to silence the alarm.  The command for this is separate from the AP engage/disengage on the center console.

Edited June 24, 2015 by JGregory