IXEG 737 Progress Update - January 12th

[Moose1]

As much as I want the 733 to come out soon because I will be moving onto the next stage of my career shortly and I'll be away from my X-Plane machine for 2-4 months when I am out training( and I would love to have some seat time in the 733 before I head out to train), they need to wait until the product is in a state where it is ready.

X-Plane has had too many products be released too soon( as much as I hate to say it because I do enjoy the Mad Dog, the MD-88 should have had a few minutes in the oven). Too many beta testers just take the plane, put a plan in the FMC and see if it flies it, then says it's good to go. As many of us who fly in the real world or online( PE, vatsim, IVAO), how many times did the originally programmed flight plan actually be the final one without any direct to's, short cuts, etc given by ATC? Planes like the Mad Dog and the JAR's can't do direct to's without drama. You can't adjust the flight flight plan in mid-flight or things get screwed up( VNAV, lose LNAV, etc).

From what I have seen, IXEG is focusing on the most important aspects of the plane for a 1.0 release. I don't bring the Mad Dog or any of the JAR's on PilotEdge because I just don't have trust with them. I enjoy the Mad Dog and the JAR's don't get me wrong, but in an environment where the flight plan can change and need a SID/STAR flown correctly, the deficiencies of these planes FMC/systems prevent me from holding too much faith that these planes will do what they should do.

X-Plane needs less eye candy planes. X-Plane needs more study-level in depth models.

I totally agree with you. The JAR and MD are really sketchy. I have flown many times with both, and whenever I'm told to fly direct, the whole plan becomes a nightmare, and I dont want that. But it does seem like some developers have caught on, because there are more sustained projects that are happening right now that really seem like they are going to deliver something very close to the real thing. I think all that's missing from the community is more people like Jan. Because you can say that you have tested it with real pilots, but how can it be realistic if it doesn't have important things the real plane has (I'm looking at you JAR, I respect you, but that FBW is not accurate). So no matter how long the wait, you the 737 will always have room on my computer.

[wiloghby]

I totally agree with you. The JAR and MD are really sketchy. I have flown many times with both, and whenever I'm told to fly direct, the whole plan becomes a nightmare, and I dont want that. But it does seem like some developers have caught on, because there are more sustained projects that are happening right now that really seem like they are going to deliver something very close to the real thing. I think all that's missing from the community is more people like Jan. Because you can say that you have tested it with real pilots, but how can it be realistic if it doesn't have important things the real plane has (I'm looking at you JAR, I respect you, but that FBW is not accurate). So no matter how long the wait, you the 737 will always have room on my computer.

 

Somewhat off topic, but the latest beta (2.6b4) for the jar a320 and the last update to the jar a330 do direct waypoints quite well, without totally wonking out like they used to.  JAR kept his word about using the a330 development to fix the a320.  They ultimately went the other route vs IXEG...released a half-baked product in 2 years and spent 2 years fixing it.  I fly both planes now with great regularity without issues...

 

But that's ONLY because I don't have the IXEG 737 to fly yet.  Once it is released, I won't even remember who or what a JAR is.  FBW is a lot better on both models than it used to be...but by no means are we talking IXEG level of attention to detail.  

 

I have already picked out my first flight plan for the IXEG 733... I am more excited about its release than anything else to date for X-Plane.  That is mostly due to Jan's extremely impressive videos.  I also find them to be very informative for those without real-world commercial jetliner experience.

 

Certainly by spending 5 years to release it, I think IXEG will be one of the few developers that is not inundated with complaints about bugs shortly after release.  It's a calculated risk, to be sure...especially since many of them have left their jobs.  But if they manage to remain financially solvent and release this plane with the level of detail we have been told to expect, then I think their  customers, blown away by the quality of v1.0, will follow them to the ends of the earth and purchase anything else they might wish to develop in the future. :]  Brand loyalty is hard to overvalue.

 

BY THE WAY, are you guys issuing stock to potential investors??? j/k

Edited January 22, 2016 by wiloghby

[Tom Knudsen]

Well you made my breakfast come up again while laughing, cudos

[eurocat]

Keep the balance folks! Too realistic flight gear rules out even more potential fans of flight sim community, they planned to buy, use such a bird like IXEG B733 or like FJS B732... I do prefer the more advanced, more realistic, more challanging simulations though. The satisfaction is like a coin with two sides. The "real" pilots will be or will be not satisfied after the first flights because they expected something more realistic, than that was wrapped into the initial release. In their prospective the simulator would have been even more realistic. Meanwhile the not hardcore sim pilots - I think their population grows even faster, than the others - will find "too" complicated to fly the B733 as a regular base. So, for them all the efforts result as a bounch of useless, hard to understand, hard to handle, and of course over priced package. The developer cann't garantee the success for all, who will buy her/his product. She or he need to focus on the target. If the specification says that this or that feature must produce this or that result - in a various, but well defined - conditions, nothing else to be done since the beginning of the development, just to find the best, and most effective design, then write the code, and test, test.... All these are time consuming stuff. It does take 5 years? Well it can be 6 or seven.

One thing more about complexity: the far too complicated system has got more potential weekness. But anyway I'd like to faceoff with my satisfactions regarding IXEG's B733!

[Litjan]

Keep the balance folks! Too realistic flight gear rules out even more potential fans of flight sim community, they planned to buy, use such a bird like IXEG B733 or like FJS B732... I do prefer the more advanced, more realistic, more challanging simulations though. The satisfaction is like a coin with two sides. The "real" pilots will be or will be not satisfied after the first flights because they expected something more realistic, than that was wrapped into the initial release. In their prospective the simulator would have been even more realistic. Meanwhile the not hardcore sim pilots - I think their population grows even faster, than the others - will find "too" complicated to fly the B733 as a regular base. So, for them all the efforts result as a bounch of useless, hard to understand, hard to handle, and of course over priced package. The developer cann't garantee the success for all, who will buy her/his product. She or he need to focus on the target. If the specification says that this or that feature must produce this or that result - in a various, but well defined - conditions, nothing else to be done since the beginning of the development, just to find the best, and most effective design, then write the code, and test, test.... All these are time consuming stuff. It does take 5 years? Well it can be 6 or seven.

One thing more about complexity: the far too complicated system has got more potential weekness. But anyway I'd like to faceoff with my satisfactions regarding IXEG's B733!

 

What you say has merit - especially when you consider that you can make a "simplified" airplane within a year or so - and probably sell almost as many copies as you would for a very realistic version.

 

But I think we already have a good offering of planes like that in the X-Plane franchise. And we are not only in this to make money - for me it is mostly a hommage to the best airliner I ever flew. And thinking that the very first 737-500 that I ever flew just got scrapped in Tulsa breaks my heart. I hope that we can immortalize this great aircraft with this add-on. And I don´t want to immortalize a dumbed down version (although we do have to succumb to some X-Plane and flight-simulation realities, of course).

 

Another thing to keep in mind: The 737 is a plane that was built to "simply fly". No overly complicated system logics, no constant fighting the automation (most spoken words on some airliner´s flight deck: "What is it doing now?" and famous last words: "It´s never done THAT before!"). Not on the 737!

 

So I think if you are a casual user and just "want to fly" you can do so. The (real) 737 does not ask for much more knowledge or system manipulation than a King Air or a Citation Jet. Set the pressurization, extend the flaps, off you go.

There is a lot more to know to operate it efficiently and with reliable safety, but if you don´t have to pay for the fuel or a new airplane...then you can get away with a bare minimum of procedure adherence.

 

If you are a total airplane noob then don´t expect to hop in and fly some complicated circling procedure on one engine. But if you can fly the default heavies with some degree of success, you will certainly be able to get our 737 from A to B.

 

Jan

Edited January 22, 2016 by Litjan

[tkyler]

I'd like to add that, even though I'm one of the developers, I am by no means a "airliner guy".  I barely know how to operate the thing on many levels, certainly do not have proficiency.  I have not nailed one flight yet beginning to end but I am driven by the challenge to do so.  One of the things I am looking forward to as a relative "newbie" is learning how to operate the thing.   BUT in order to do so, I need guidance and mentorship and a good training program, not just a FCOM.   Of course we have just the man for the job in Jan and we will be including several training videos with the 737 purchase to go with tutorials we are providing with the product.  Also, we have a longer term vision to craft a more comprehensive 'training program', the details of which still have to be pondered upon and thought through.....but my point is that we understand that the learning process can be as rewarding as the actual operational process and we want to cater to both thereby serving both newbies and experts alike.

 

-tkyler

Edited January 22, 2016 by tkyler

[eurocat]

Dear Gents, no more complaints! All those things you - the full team of IXEG - mentioned, said before - regarding the product *(which is yours) - are fully obvious. No questions why! You made it. We will enjoy it soon and there after - I hope. This topic looks like almost the same as another was in the dates before the B737 NG(FS2K4/FSX) airplane addon was about to release. The folks were eager to get it into their hands and play with it asap. Since the release date, that product is just one of the other well designed addons on the palette (...it's nimbus had paled out as you like...). I would like to emphasize that word from the previous sentence: 'play'. I will do that with this bird, and I will set up the rules for that game, when I will practice. As you - Jan - mentioned, this capability will be/has been built in the product. That is the most important thing, what we - potential users - need to keep in our mind. You can fashion all the scenarios as you want, the bird will do what it actually used to be done: keep flying untill...

[Slowdive]

If you are again referring to my "humoristic" comment about IP, I stated VERY clearly it was a joke!  I'm sure you tolerate those in the US as well? 

 

As a US citizen, I can tell you that jokes are not allowed here. The humorless PC police have taken over and everyone must be ver serious here.

 

But seriously, best of luck finishing your software project. I'm an indie dev myself and know what it's like. It also stinks to be an indie dev and a perfectionist. Bad combo. Anyway, look forward to flying your fine looking aircraft.

[Phantom88]

http://forums.x-pilot.com/topic/8707-ixeg-737-progress-update-january-22nd/?p=92094

[mmerelles]

OMG this is serious stuff from IXEG :D