Carenado CT210M Centurion II Just Released!

[steven winslow]

Been flying this one a bit and she's a beauty!  If you've been waiting for another complex GA aircraft, this one will get you going!  The cockpit lighting is a beautiful thing to behold.  

 

[Cameron]

Looks like a great product!

[JGregory]

Been flying this one a bit and she's a beauty!  If you've been waiting for another complex GA aircraft, this one will get you going!  The cockpit lighting is a beautiful thing to behold.  

So Steve... just wondering... are you a beta tester for Carenado?

[steven winslow]

I have a habit of watching the Carenado website when a release is imminent.  When it showed up this afternoon in their fleet, I decided to take some time off this afternoon and do some flying around Washington state to check out some of the freeware scenery that's recently been posted.  Thoroughly enjoyed the plane so I thought I'd share my excitement over the release.

[JGregory]

I have a habit of watching the Carenado website when a release is imminent.  When it showed up this afternoon in their fleet, I decided to take some time off this afternoon and do some flying around Washington state to check out some of the freeware scenery that's recently been posted.  Thoroughly enjoyed the plane so I thought I'd share my excitement over the release.

Steve,

 

Your statement/quote "Been flying this one a bit ..." lead me to believe that you had the aircraft for some time (prior to release), is that true?

 

And if so, you really didn't answer my question, are you in fact a beta tester for Carenado, or not?  

[Femke]

It claims 64bit compatible and yet the C337 Skymaster is still waiting for its 64 bit plugin. I would like to patronise Carenado again but until they make my existing V10 models compatible with X-Plane 64 bit, I think I will spend my cash elsewhere.

I am using my earlier version challenger's SASL 64 bit to be able to fly it at the moment, but it is an unsupported mod and I am not sure if the odd crash I get when using the Skymaster is down to this mod.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Femke

[Mario Donick]

It claims 64bit compatible and yet the C337 Skymaster is still waiting for its 64 bit plugin. I would like to patronise Carenado again but until they make my existing V10 models compatible with X-Plane 64 bit, I think I will spend my cash elsewhere.

I am using my earlier version challenger's SASL 64 bit to be able to fly it at the moment, but it is an unsupported mod and I am not sure if the odd crash I get when using the Skymaster is down to this mod.

It is a well-known fact that older Carenado planes get updated with XP 10.21, because they need some XP lighting issues fixed.

And their v10 models don't work all correctly, because XP itself has problems with Lua memory management. There is NOTHING Carenado or any other addon developer can do about this!

With the same argument like your's I could say I won't buy any X-Aviation product, until they have made the DC-3 and the Corvalis work under 64 bit. But it is the same story: Gizmo uses Lua, SASL uses Lua, both depend on Laminar to work on Lua.

Edit: There is currently only one XP version where you can get recent airplane payware for and where you can expect it to behave stable and foreseeable for the future -- and this is XP 9.70. XP 10 will probably change again sometimes, and there is no guarantee that planes working right now will work in later versions. In XP, you will learn to live with these uncertainties.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Mario Donick

[woweezowee]

Mario is right:

SASL: It’s an X-Plane issue and won’t be fixed before X-Plane 10.30:
http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=66310&p=726279

 

As a Cessna Fan this new one is a must have for me.I’ll keep fingers crossed, too, that all the uphold development will be possible and done soon.

Edited April 6, 2013 by woweezowee

[Mario Donick]

Now, back to topic maybe:

 

In which way is the Centurion special, maybe compared to the C182 (with retractable gear; not yet available by Carenado for XP unfortunately)?

[Femke]

Oh dear so now problems are being moved further back to 10.30. Gosh I didn't realize I was buying a beta key for a flightsim and for addons. Sorry for the sarcasm but perhaps I grew old in an era where items sold where expected to work well and fluently out of the box, and things were not released until the quality testing gave them the thumbs up.

 

To me from what I have seen in the past of this, what in my opinion seems to be a cavalier attitude to the customer, is a gradual decline in a customer base until eventually it becomes uneconomical for a company and its associate companies to continue to trade.

 

The most glaring example being British Leyland, leading to the loss of near enough 100% of British made cars and a loss of the many engineering companies that relied on them.

 

Agreed that computers and their associate programs are very complex, but despite operating systems developing many faults the manufacturers of these opsys are very quick to keep updating them while they run their life period.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Femke

[steven winslow]

...are you in fact a beta tester for Carenado, or not?  

 

I don't know what relevance it has, but yes, I do some beta testing for Dan.  With that said, I can say that I have paid full retail for every single Carenado/Alabeo product I own.  I've done beta testing for a few other developers as well, both payware and freeware.

 

I grew old in an era where items sold where expected to work well and fluently out of the box, and things were not released until the quality testing gave them the thumbs up.

 

I'm right there with you, Femke.  Even so, there have always been recalls and updates, especially with computers and software.  There are so many variables to consider when creating software products that I can imagine it nearly impossible to plan for every single end user scenario.  Somewhere someone is going to have the "perfect storm" of circumstances that even the most careful and thorough of developers couldn't have anticipated the issue.  I still think we can do a better job catching the glitches before a product is shipped, but sometimes things just get overlooked in the process.  Each time a new product comes out and somebody catches something that we miss I am bit embarrassed and I learn a little bit more and I start looking harder at the upcoming products.  Perfection is still the goal.

[Femke]

Thanks Steven and I have to admit that "The Perfect Storm" scenario exists and has always existed. Even with the quality controls of my younger life the odd rogue managed to slip through.

 

What I am seeing at the moment though as a customer, is major problems, whether by developers of the Flight Sim or developers of the addons, that take your money and ask you to use the products in a substandard way.

 

The following silences as no one seems to feel they need to keep the customer base regularly updated with progress are only addressed when customers get a little irate and get somewhat bellicose in wanting answers to the many delays they experience.

 

I think it is compounded with the releasing of new models as this thread describes that appear to have a working 64bit plugin.

[steven winslow]

In which way is the Centurion special, maybe compared to the C182 (with retractable gear; not yet available by Carenado for XP unfortunately)?

 

Since the C182 isn't available for X-Plane I can't offer a comparison.  I can say that each new Carenado I have flown has something new added.  It may be insignificant to some customers, but the cockpit lighting in the Centurion is pretty cool.  There's some cool backlighting that we haven't seen before and the night lighting is better than previous planes.  I suppose it's little things like those that get me excited.   

[tkyler]

I don't know what relevance it has

Steven,  it has relevance in that when a person in this type of industry lavishes praise on a product, then your association with the product via beta testing can be construed as a conflict of interest and your assertions as to the products desirability  can become questionable.   For all we know it could be you have been offered free access to Carenado products in exchange for your beta reports and your good word publicly dosn't hurt.  

 

If you therefore influence a person to buy the aircraft through your praise and it is less than advertised or has some problem like the MFD issue , but you didn't say so becasue you didn't want to damage your beta testing status with Carenado for example, then in that kind of situation, you are, in a way, deceiving the public whether intentionally, unintentionally or by omission.  Now it is irrelevant whether or not things are actually this way or you view them this way or not becasue I personally believe you  have fine and true intentions but the issue is one of appearances and making positive public statements about a product while being a beta tester of that same product can easily  come across to others as potentially containing ulterior motives.  

 

TomK

[Mario Donick]

Thanks Steven and I have to admit that "The Perfect Storm" scenario exists and has always existed. Even with the quality controls of my younger life the odd rogue managed to slip through.

 

What I am seeing at the moment though as a customer, is major problems, whether by developers of the Flight Sim or developers of the addons, that take your money and ask you to use the products in a substandard way.

 

The following silences as no one seems to feel they need to keep the customer base regularly updated with progress are only addressed when customers get a little irate and get somewhat bellicose in wanting answers to the many delays they experience.

 

I think it is compounded with the releasing of new models as this thread describes that appear to have a working 64bit plugin.

 

I think there is one major reason behind all these different observations:

 

X-Plane is developed by a very small team, with Austin Meyer and Ben Supnik as heads, and some others for certain specific aspects (such as autogen buidlings or ATC).

 

In the same way, addons are developed by very small teams or even individual persons. What you see as Carenado or Alabeo companies, is (for X-Plane) in fact Daniel Klaue and maybe some beta testers -- one single person that has to produce plane over plane, and as it was said in another thread, these are not simple conversions. Each plane has to be developed from scratch for X-Plane, by this one guy. Besides developing, Dan is doing most, if not all, of the support related to Carenado's or Alabeo's XP activities.

 

It's not an ideal situation. But having a fully-fledged beta and support team, or other devs (in the case of Carenado: besides Dan) would increase the cost of the addons, because XP's user base is simply not comparable to the numbers of FS9/FSX.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Mario Donick

[steven winslow]

Steven,  it has relevance in that when a person in this type of industry lavishes praise on a product, then your association with the product via beta testing can be construed as a conflict of interest and your assertions as to the products desirability  can become questionable.   For all we know it could be you have been offered free access to Carenado products in exchange for your beta reports and your good word publicly dosn't hurt.  

 

If you therefore influence a person to buy the aircraft through your praise and it is less than advertised or has some problem like the MFD issue , but you didn't say so becasue you didn't want to damage your beta testing status with Carenado for example, then in that kind of situation, you are, in a way, deceiving the public whether intentionally, unintentionally or by omission.  Now it is irrelevant whether or not things are actually this way or you view them this way or not becasue I personally believe you  have fine and true intentions but the issue is one of appearances and making positive public statements about a product while being a beta tester of that same product can easily  come across to others as potentially containing ulterior motives.

 

I can assert this, Tom, that I have not been given, nor do I expect any compensation from Carenado in any way, shape or form.  I have not received any products for free.  As I stated before, I have paid for every single Carenado/Alabeo product for X-Plane and I own them all.  I say what I say about their products because I believe in them, whether or not I'm a beta tester and I pay for them because I think they are worth the price.  As for my testing, I fly the planes mostly in V9.7, but I do check them in V10 as well.  My perspective is as an end user, not a code wrangler.  I report my impressions and any glitches in systems I may find.  I can't replicate every single issue that comes up because I only test on one Mac.  I miss some things and apparently so do the other beta testers.  I have no idea who or how many beta testers there are.  I'm certainly not the only one doing beta testing.  As for the EFD issues reported, I did not have those issues.  There were other issues that I found and they were fixed before release.  Then again, I'm not the one who flew it in 64 bit.   Admittedly, I will be more diligent in testing in V10 to help prevent issues we've seen in the A36.  Even so, those issues aren't solely a problem for Carenado, but more so Laminar's.

 

I don't think any comments I have made about any Carenado have ever misled anyone or misrepresented the products in any way.  I've never said they would do something they wouldn't or couldn't do and I'm not saying they are something that they are not.  

 

I have no "ulterior motive" with my posts, Tom.  I receive NOTHING for my opinions or my testing.  What possible ulterior motive could I have?  I believe in their products and I do what I can to support them only because I like them.  For what it's worth, I do the same for Jason Chandler's products.  Over the years I have touted his stuff and even purchased them for friends as gifts.  I've even promoted X-Aviation products in forums and by painting liveries for them.  Your MU-2 was the first payware product I ever purchased and I can't tell you how many times I have recommended it to those who have asked.  (I'm still really disappointed the update will be V10 only even though you promised an update long before V10 was released.)  So tell me what possible ulterior motive could I have?  I have no evil intentions, Tom.  You're being silly trying to cast a dark shadow on my posts.  

[rick_studder]

One thing I've noticed on Carenado single engine aircrafts is that the ball is constantly to the left, as if the aircraft is in a sideslip. My guess is that Carenado applies some kind of constant aileron trim or the likes to counter the torque rolling in X-Plane. Is this the case on the Centurion too? What happens when you idle the power, will the aircraft have a right-turning tendency?

Edited April 6, 2013 by rick_studder

[tkyler]

I have no "ulterior motive" with my posts, Tom.

Steven, you are very much missing the context of my post.  I did not say that you did.  For example

 

.....come across to others as potentially containing ulterior motives.

There is a HUGE difference between you having ulterior motives vs others BELIEVING that you  have ulterior motives.  In the latter, I clearly assert that others can believe you have ulterior motives  and I CLEARLY assert that I think you do not but that does not change the fact that others think you might becasue of your beta testing status.  If I were to come out of a house where it was just a beautiful young lady and me for an hour in the house.....but I was only lecturing her on drinking....could that not be viewed by others are improper no matter the reality?  Best to avoid the situation IMO.

 

Did you not get called out and questioned on it by Jim?   He picked up on it...so did I, but it appears that you did not and asked to the relevance and I simply explained it.  Not once in my post do I question you or your motives, but only explain how others might and in the blink of an eye you're in defense mode.  My entire post is filled with similar rhetoric and I am VERY VERY careful about the words I choose.   Thank you for your kind words on the MU2, but you were not a beta tester though and if you were, I would have asked you to not comment (EDIT:  not comment your opinions) in public like I do all my beta testers.

 

TomK

Edited April 6, 2013 by tkyler

[steven winslow]

Steven, you are very much missing the context of my post. I did not say that you did.

By suggesting someone else might think I have ulterior motives is pretty much the same as saying it yourself. By suggesting I may have ulterior motives you are planting a seed of doubt and casting my posting in a negative light and questioning my integrity. I apologize if my words seem defensive. That's not my intention. I only want to assert that I have not been nor am I being compensated for anything I do or have done for Carenado. I certainly see your point, but I would hope people would not be so judgmental when reading my posts. I don't think they are over the top or in any way misleading. In fact, I started posting about Carenado products long before I got to test one. Whether or not I continue to do testing for them I will continue to post my thoughts and impressions about their products. I only hope the community will appreciate my thoughts and take them for what they are intended. If they misconstrue them or interpret them in a way they weren't intended, then that's their problem, not mine. Obviously I would never comment on a product before it was released, but afterwards I don't think it's inappropriate for me to comment on it. To say I should not would be the same as telling you not to comment on or promote your MU-2 update.

One thing I've noticed on Carenado single engine aircrafts is that the ball is constantly to the left, as if the aircraft is in a sideslip. My guess is that Carenado applies some kind of constant aileron trim or the likes to counter the torque rolling in X-Plane. Is this the case on the Centurion too? What happens when you idle the power, will the aircraft have a right-turning tendency?

Rick, I noticed the same thing on the Centurion and I've mentioned it to Carenado. I'm not sure why it does it. I'll explore that issue further and let you know what I find.

Edited April 6, 2013 by steven winslow

[woweezowee]

The Baron 58 has the ball to the right. Can't be exactly correct, too, I would think.

Edited April 6, 2013 by woweezowee

[steven winslow]

I have to admit I haven't flown the Baron much, but I'll see what I can find out about the turn coordinator.

[woweezowee]

Besides the Caravan, The Baron 58 is my favorite from Carenado until now. Will be able to fly the 210 next week and look forward to it.

Edited April 6, 2013 by woweezowee

[rick_studder]

What you'll see in the typical real world single engine aircraft is a left-yawing tendency in low speed/high power situations (typically take off climb). The ball will be to the right and you will "step on it" with right rudder to center it and fly coordinated. At cruise setting the aircraft will neither yaw nor roll, the ball will be centered. If you chopped the power and dive the plane will typically yaw slightly to the right and you correct with left rudder. 

 

In X-Plane there is too little yaw and too much roll. That's why I suspect Carenado have added some constant aileron trim which might cause what we see. It's really an attempt to rectify a flaw in X-Plane's flight model.

 

Regarding the Baron 58 I know it's propellers turn the same way. If they were counter-rotating, each engine's torque would cancel out the other one, and the plane would fly straight. The Piper Seneca has counter-rotating propellers — I don't own it, but I would guess the ball stays centered in Carenado's Seneca too.

[Mario Donick]

By suggesting someone else might think I have ulterior motives is pretty much the same as saying it yourself. By suggesting I may have ulterior motives you are planting a seed of doubt and casting my posting in a negative light and questioning my integrity

 

No, this is not true. When we analyze your interesting dialogue in a strictly logical way, we get the following:

 

1) Steven says A.

2) Tom recognizes A.

3) Tom has the opinion B that A could be misunderstood as C by others.

4) Tom tells Steven about B, with the intention to avoid misunderstandings.

5) From 4), Steven infers that Tom has opinion C.

 

But 5) is nothing that is implied by 1) to 4).

 

So I suggest to stop this dispute. It leads to nothing and I think nobody wanted any harm.

 

Can anybody tell me more about the Centurion? Is it worth buying beside the good lights?

Edited April 6, 2013 by Mario Donick

[tkyler]

nevermind

 

TomK

Edited April 6, 2013 by tkyler