Stutters caused by AntiAliasing

[fehrster]

i experience this only in the TBM

• No stutters: AA off (60fps)
• No stutters: FXAA on (60fps)
• medium stutters: 2 x SSAA+FXAA (50fps)
• bad stutters: 4x SSAA (30 fps)

I only have a nvidia 1060GTX, so i don´t want to have 4xSSAA. But 2 x SSAA+FXAA worked really good in version 11.41. Does anybody have the same problem?

Video evidence:

 

[Greaser]

Yes I have this Exact problem with XP Vulkan, I have an i7-8700k and 1080 Ti.   The stuttering is only with TBM 900.  It's very annoying and makes this product unusable to me.  Also still seeing the obligatory random crashes after all this time. It never gets solved.  I don't get random crashes with other aircraft.  Only TBM 900.  What's going on after so long?  It needs fixing.

Greazer.

[mrogers0547]

Try this: in Nvidia control panel, 3d settings, set Max Frame Rate to around 35 frames per second. That's all the FPS you'll get but the stutters will be gone and it looks great. I have all my X-Plane settings at or near maxed out. GTX 1080, I9 processor, 32 gigs ram. Play around with the frames per second setting till you find what works for your system. Mine works great at 45 fps.

[Greaser]

Not a good solution. It's SSAA anti aliasing that is causing stutters with this aircraft only and there needs to be an official patch which addresses it.

Developers also need to focus on why their aircraft is causing crashes to desktop and handle the exception in the code and not let the sim crash.

No other aircraft has the random crashes to desktop like the TBM 900. 

Stop blaming all third parties and fix your code! 

Greazer.

[fehrster]

There´s no need to get rude. It helps for now to lock the frames. It helps on my side too. My rig i5-9600K GTX 1060, and i locked it on 40fps. Works very well!

So ....Thank you @mrogers0547 for your help!

If something works, it´s not stupid, right?

[Goran_M]

@Greaser, when you're ready to be reasonable, we'll help you.  Making demands will get you nowhere.  I've addressed the stuttering issue in other threads.  I've also mentioned to everyone to stop mentioning "This only happens with the TBM."  This statement is, literally, of no help to us.  I've tried to see this stuttering issue on my end, and I'm getting nothing like what you're stating.  ie. Unusable.  We've seen streamers who are flying it with no issue.  So I reiterate.  This issue seems like it's isolated to a specific type of setup.  Either with hardware or plugins.  And when you're willing to accept that, we can move forward.

 

[Cameron]

8 hours ago, Greaser said:

Not a good solution. It's SSAA anti aliasing that is causing stutters with this aircraft only and there needs to be an official patch which addresses it.

Did you somehow get the impression the TBM takes over X-Plane's rendering engine and tells it how to do anti aliasing? Surely not, right?

8 hours ago, Greaser said:

Stop blaming all third parties and fix your code! 

Do you say the same thing to the third party plugins whose dirty code is getting exposed? Just curious since you seem to be a programming genius.

[oldflyguy]

@fehrster and @Greaser, I have no stuttering issues with the TBM when using 11.50 Vulkan.  Not so with 11.50 OpenGL unless I turn the graphics settings down a bit. Same for earlier versions of XP.  And the same with other 3rd party aircraft models as well.  This has nothing to do with the TBM expect perhaps there's a lot going on with the system modeling.  And you need to take that and other factors - plug-in's, etc. - into consideration when tuning your system.  

[fehrster]

Wow... thank you @oldflyguy you solved all my problems, because you don´t have any. This is much appreciated!

And now serious: i installed a second copy of x-plane with just the tbm. The stutters are the same, frames are jumping from 40 to 60 up and down.

 

TBM900_Log.txt Log.txt GizmoLog.txt

[oldflyguy]

@fehrster Sarcasm aside I took the time to look at your log.txt to see if anything stood out.  Nothing in there struck me as a cause of your issue.  It is puzzling since my install has a good number of plug-in's, Orbx, Ortho and 3rd party airports yet it is smooth with the TBM.  And everything else for that matter.  So, looking outside of the basic install and the TBM are you at 1080, correct?   More than one monitor?  Other processes running?  I see you've been at this for a while so I'm guessing you know all the Nvidia "stuff" - max power preferred and high performance selected in the control panel.  Have you tried using a utility like HWiNFO64 to monitor the CPU and GPU while flying?  I'm looking to upgrade my Mobo and CPU shortly but I'm concerned about issues that some i9-xxxx users are reporting.  I hadn't considered AMD but it's in the mix now...

[mrogers0547]

I'll say it again... set your max frames per second to 30 or 35 and your stutters will stop.

[fehrster]

And again @mrogers0547....thank you! I can enjoy the plane now again!

Let´s pretend everything is fine, and please give a **** on my feedback! All problems on my side!

 

Last thing i have to state:

FFA320 - no stutters

FJS732 and 727 - no stutters

IXEG737 - no stutters

Bell 407 - no stutters

FF767 - no stutters

Zibo738 - no stutters

ini A306 - no stutters

AFL C172 - no stutters

Hotstart TBM 900 - guess what!

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by fehrster

[fehrster]

My final guess is the combination of "TBM/Gizmo/Vulcan" can´t handle my systems-combination of stronger CPU and weaker GPU. Maybe that´s why streamers and Devs have no problem with the TBM, they all have better GPU´s than a 1060

[Goran_M]

There are so many possibilities, that it's almost impossible to determine what is causing it.  At the risk of sounding arrogant, not all add ons are created equally.  The TBM has very complex systems and code implementation, and it could be forcing the CPU to work that little bit extra than other add ons.

[fehrster]

I don´t think that it is arrogant. You and Toto have created IMO the best single prop and maybe the best x-plane addon - and i am looking forward to your next release.

On my system it feels like there´s no limit for the gpu (when flying with the TBM on Vulcan 11.50). With GPU-Z monitoring the performance, there was first the voltage limiting the GPU. With MSI Afterburner i gave more voltage, than the temperature was the limit. Next step bringing up the fan to 100%, than the general power was limiting. Then power up and the voltage was the limit. And so on and so forth. The stuttering was always the same - frames went up. I also get the highest FPS in the TBM. Maybe it´s coded too clean? CPU is bored at 40%.

And i don´t think that there is the magic solution for this - beside locking frames, which works wonderful. My intention was to find out, if there are other user experiencing the same thing, or if it is just on my side.

[Cassio]

Locking fps at a value compatible If your rig this stuttering problem do not bother.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Cassio

[janis22]

On 9/13/2020 at 4:19 AM, mrogers0547 said:

Try this: in Nvidia control panel, 3d settings, set Max Frame Rate to around 35 frames per second. That's all the FPS you'll get but the stutters will be gone and it looks great. I have all my X-Plane settings at or near maxed out. GTX 1080, I9 processor, 32 gigs ram. Play around with the frames per second setting till you find what works for your system. Mine works great at 45 fps.

I was also having issues with stuttering when using 4xSSAA. I had decided to turn AA completely off to get rid of the stuttering but I don't like the look of it. So I tried this.
And yes it works  No more stuttering with 4xSSAA. Thank you for this tip!
EDIT: Ok after further testing, capping the FPS only minimizes the problem. Sofar the best solution is just to turn AA off. I use some reshade sharpen effects to eliminate the blurriness of missing AA.

Edited December 5, 2020 by janis22

[CJSouthern]

I'll add my experiences for the record. Currently running XP 11.5R3 on 10700K CPU with 64GB RAM and RTX 3080. Running 3 screens. With everything maxed out I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is "stutters", but when taxiing over (expecially) grass the scenery closest to the cockpit on monitors 1 & 3 looked like it only updating about 3 times a second. I'm sure the rest of the scenery must have been the same but it's not visually apparant since it's further away and less change between frames is expected anyway.

Per what some have mentioned above, I too found that anti-aliasing seemed to be the culprit. Knocking it back 1 step from max made a big difference, but for some reason it's not consistent; sometimes it's OK sometimes it's more obvious. I knocked it back 2 settings and couldn't see any obvious image degradation and so left it at that. 

Having read through this thread I limited the card to 35fps and it does seem better - AA set to Max -1 or Max -2. 

I'm a pretty fussy person - and I'm finding this setup looks just fine to me.

I should probably add that once you've flown a 3 monitor setup then a single-monitor setup just seems almost "caveman" vintage; I'd easily call it 3 times more fun to fly.

 

[janis22]

So seems like I have found a solution to all these stutters, thanks to kreizler17 on the org forums. Apparently just having the Rivatuner statistics overlay eliminates the stutters. (You can hide them by placing them for a higher pixel value than your screen).
I hope its ok to share the org forum link here:
https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/234409-stutter-during-taxi/&do=findComment&comment=2099997

Cheers