The disconnect between developers and customers

[flyinhawaiian]

I want to preface this post by saying I'm not pointing any fingers, nor trying to stir up trouble.  I'm looking for a civil, ADULT conversation where consumers and developers, alike, can more closely align their perceptions and expectations of one another, and build a stronger community and relationship.

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Every day we see, and are frustrated by comments (mostly from new users) asking "when is this going to be released?" "do we have a release date?" etc, etc.  For those of us waiting patiently, it gets old to see, but not nearly as old as it must seem to the developers, marketers, and proprietors of the products in question.  Unfortunately, so long as current practices are maintained, its unlikely we'll see an end to it any time soon.  From a dev/marketers point of view, the excitement of finishing a product must be unbelievable.  All that time and effort, finally coming to fruition leaves you bursting at the seams and you're aching to share it with the world.  Where you're sitting, 95% is "almost done" compared to 5% left to go.

Regrettably, this over zealous behavior can lead to some unintended and detrimental consequences.  When a product is announced, and claimed "soon" for release, the consumers have a much different concept of "soon" than developers.  When a new website is released, and promotional emails are sent, the concept is exacerbated further.  The initial hype is great, and should be captured, but as time ticks away, that initial excitement turns sour.  No one likes to wait, especially when claims of "soon" and "imminent" are announced.  For the consumer, "soon" means imminent, hours or days.  For developers, it seems to mean weeks or months.

Take a real-world example - the Boeing 787.  When the official project was announced in 2005, hype was high, and initial orders started to roll in.  When the first (completely unfinished shell) 787 rolled out in 2007, the number of orders from 2006 doubled and it became the fastest selling wide-body of all time.  Unfortunately, the program has been hit with delay after delay, and the initial in-service release date of May 2008 has come and gone quite some time ago.  As a consequence, customers like ANA and JAL have levied penalties against Boeing, and orders have decreased by nearly 10%.  Granted the economy took a dump in that time, but some of those lost orders have gone to Airbus out of frustration.

I apologize for the wall of text, but I would like to see the community grow and remain strong, but current business practices need to be adjusted, and expectations from both sides of the table need adjusting.  I look forward to the comments and ideas brought forth to the topic.  Remember, think before you post and try to leave egos at the door.

-Jeff

[Mikkel]

I agree. One gets fed up with people continuously asking when an aircraft is released.

At the same time it would be clever of developers not to say anything about release before they are certain the project is at a state where a public release is apropriate.

In the mean time I'm more than happy with status-updates on new details added etc.

I think Morten and his team is doing great in regard to their B737-project.

[MaidenFan]

I think the solution to this problem is going to take both developers and consumers. Developers need to find a better way to give release information out (that's a hard one as stated above by Goran). You can't expect customers to not get irritated when they constantly hear the same thing over a period of many months. Consumers need to relax on products a little, and understand that delays are not on purpose.  

[Redfisher]

Unless developers keep projects under wraps, there is absolutely no way to prevent any consumer from being frustrated for having to wait.  To me, new stuff comes out when it comes out.  My life doesn't hinge on the release of the CRJ, MU-2, 737, et al.  Different strokes, different folks but I'm sure many feel the way I do.  It's part of the cost of doing business as far as I'm concerned and I don't think for one second that anyone involved here has pushed "hype" for the sake of hype.  

[crs]

I personally completely agree with Goran.

Project acknowledge and anticipation is very important to keep community going.

People need to understand that asking the same questions all over again will not bring different answer.

What I would like to see though is a progress page updated every now and then pointing out what have been achieved and what still needs to be done. Together with periodic updates it would be very good way of keeping customers happy without declaring anything. Understandably such a list would be a living matter with elements added to it as devs want to include something in end product that was not planned before. Want to make a surprise for customer? Just say 'surprise ;-)'.

I know that would not stop people from asking questions like when will element A be finished but well...

I also beleive that every single project has been planned and such a list exists. I am not asking here for extremely detailed list - just highlights, milestones etc.

Kind regards,

Kamil

[Zach Decou]

If I were a paware developer, I would:

1. Develop my project in secret. If I were well known, people might suspect I was working on something.

2. When the project in completely finished, release images and information.

3. Let the pot stew for a while until such a time when initial sales and interest would be peaked. 

4. Pull the trigger. 

 As a developer, I could only control my own actions. The behavior of youngins and overly anxious potential customers can be annoying and redundant, but would't be under anyone's control but the individual. This way I could keep the forum lizards at bay (and 'lizarding' in other threads) until the product is ready. Plus, everyone loves a surprise. 

[Mikkel]

Kamil: Couldn't agree more.

[UH-60 Blackhawk]

I'm guilty on a few occasions, but this is a huge example of what is being mentioned.

http://www.radair1.co.cc/2009/11/01/a-new-day-has-come/comment-page-1/#comments

[MaidenFan]

Everybody is making good points here. Whether you work in secret or in the open, people are going to ask questions though. You have to deal with that as a developer and as a customer. It's inevitable!

[Goran_M]

I made a post in this thread last night but I was half asleep so I deleted it.  Now I'm loaded up on caffeine and can post it again and have it make sense.

The following is speaking for myself and Theo.

Payware developers are sometimes under a lot of pressure as their work unfolds.  Do we make it public to generate interest?  

No developer likes delaying a project.  We don't do it to say "let's tease them some more and generate more interest."

When we spend months/years on something, we definitely want it out so we can get started on the next project.  

We don't want to race anyone out the door with a product.  It's not about being the first one out with an aircraft.  It's about who can do their best work with an add on.  

If we find a bug, we want to fix it.  If we fix 1 problem and cause 5 more in the process, this can cause MAJOR delays.  But we would rather fix that 1 problem, then deal with those 5 more later if it means the aircraft can be more realistic and increase that level of immersion.  Sometimes, it's those little things that put the shine on an already good product.

As developers, we KNOW people want highly anticipated projects to be released.  But however much someone wants a product released, the developer wants it released 50 times more.  

We don't mean to delay a project.  And when we say soon, it kills us when we find a problem and it causes a delay.  I sit there working with Theo and Cameron sometimes and when a series of problems presents itself, I say "Another delay...man, people are gonna be pissed."

But nothing we can do.  It's like driving to work and you get a flat tire.  "Man, I'm gonna be late.  The boss is gonna be pissed."

Problems are inadvertently caused by the developer. ESPECIALLY programming.  When there's custom code, there's going to be problems.  But when we fix them, the result makes the aircraft that much more realistic and IS worth it.

On the flip side, what if we say nothing.  What if EVERY developer says nothing.  Where's the anticipation?  No work in progress renders.  No statements.  No timeline.  It would be a very boring development world when we have nothing to look forward to.

Perhaps better timeline management will fix the problem.  Adding a 3-4 month buffer to an estimated release date.  

I think it would be much better to have the anticipation of an upcoming project by seeing screenshots of a work in progress.  

[MaidenFan]

Yeah, surprises are fun but it would suck if they were all surprises. That would eliminate the main purpose of these forums right off the bat. Good input Goran, and I wish you the best in development!

[hobofat]

Or ... People could just chill out and do something else with the crazy hours of freetime it looks like everyone has?  It really just seems to me that when a project is announced people start feeling that they are somehow entitled to its imminent release.  If we all start from the point that nobody owes us anything ... ever ... (side note: they don't) then I think we'll all be better off in the long run.

[flyinhawaiian]

I made a post in this thread last night but I was half asleep so I deleted it.  Now I'm loaded up on caffeine and can post it again and have it make sense.

The following is speaking for myself and Theo.

Payware developers are sometimes under a lot of pressure as their work unfolds.  Do we make it public to generate interest?  

No developer likes delaying a project.  We don't do it to say "let's tease them some more and generate more interest."

When we spend months/years on something, we definitely want it out so we can get started on the next project.  

We don't want to race anyone out the door with a product.  It's not about being the first one out with an aircraft.  It's about who can do their best work with an add on.  

If we find a bug, we want to fix it.  If we fix 1 problem and cause 5 more in the process, this can cause MAJOR delays.  But we would rather fix that 1 problem, then deal with those 5 more later if it means the aircraft can be more realistic and increase that level of immersion.  Sometimes, it's those little things that put the shine on an already good product.

As developers, we KNOW people want highly anticipated projects to be released.  But however much someone wants a product released, the developer wants it released 50 times more.  

We don't mean to delay a project.  And when we say soon, it kills us when we find a problem and it causes a delay.  I sit there working with Theo and Cameron sometimes and when a series of problems presents itself, I say "Another delay...man, people are gonna be pissed."

But nothing we can do.  It's like driving to work and you get a flat tire.  "Man, I'm gonna be late.  The boss is gonna be pissed."

Problems are inadvertently caused by the developer. ESPECIALLY programming.  When there's custom code, there's going to be problems.  But when we fix them, the result makes the aircraft that much more realistic and IS worth it.

On the flip side, what if we say nothing.  What if EVERY developer says nothing.  Where's the anticipation?  No work in progress renders.  No statements.  No timeline.  It would be a very boring development world when we have nothing to look forward to.

Perhaps better timeline management will fix the problem.  Adding a 3-4 month buffer to an estimated release date.  

I think it would be much better to have the anticipation of an upcoming project by seeing screenshots of a work in progress.  

This was some of the discussion I was looking forward to.  I didn't get to read your original post, but this one certainly brings a lot of understanding to the table.  Speaking as someone who not only has crafted products for others (I do custom carbon fiber work), which runs into a plethora of problems for delivery in its own right, I completely understand.  And as for not rushing things, my 12 years as a pilot has drilled into my brain that rushing things can only lead to problems, and in aviation, they can be fatal.  So as to both fronts, I am as understanding as humanly possible.

Further, your mention of timeline management improvement is a step in the right direction between devs and consumers.  From what I can tell, the issue lies in the perception of what the consumers expect and the message sent by the developers.  Speaking as a customer, I LOVE to see the screen shots and get the updates, but when the product gets to a certain point, anticipation rises - due to both consumer ignorance as to what finishing the product entails and developer excitement, and unintended inferences are received, which leads to a confusing message as to when we can expect the product to arrive.  It has nothing to do with being impatient, but a miscommunication between both parties.

Speaking as a craftsman, I tell my customers what to expect, as to how long their pieces are going to take to be finished.  I take the time it usually takes me to do it, and I double it.  So far, its worked pretty well.  I'll send them updates, pictures, etc to keep them excited, as I am excited to see the products take shape.  I'd be lying if I said I didn't have delays, though.  Sometimes the resin doesn't cure properly, or the fabric shifts in the mold, etc etc.  If there's ANY doubt that I'd not make my deadline, I tell the customer what happened, and give them a revised estimate on delivery, even IF I'm still able to ship it on-time.  That way, their PERCEPTION is they're going to have to wait X+1,2,3,4,5 days... when in reality, I can get it to them in X days, yet still keep them excited for their product.

You can't please everyone, thats for certain, but you can most definitely manage their perceptions and achieve your own goals at the same time.

[Cameron]

If we all start from the point that nobody owes us anything ... ever ... (side note: they don't) then I think we'll all be better off in the long run.

Thank you. + 1

[OlaHaldor]

I work in the creative business every day. Post-production for film and TV that is. I feel this development and delay discussion reminds me of that "world". Whenever someone comes to me and ask "how long will it take to..." it's impossible to give the answer. Of course, I can be within range, but really, a lot can go wrong during the process.

Most of what I do is delivered on hard drives, and they usually deliver the material so it's juuuuuust enough time to do the job. I have a deadline, often set to a certain date and a certain hour of that day. No matter what problem is popping up, I need to solve it before that time and get done with all the rest. For instance - what the heck do you do when you get a drive with 2TB worth of video material which is broken upon arrival? It takes a lot of time to transfer 2TB over the Internet. And it takes time to send a new drive. Problems like that can cause a major headache, but it's just something that may happen. Let's relate to that as a bug... The problem came out of nowhere.

I as a creative guy don't want to deliver a product I'm not proud of. Of course, since I have deadlines, I need to "kill a baby" now and then, but I strive to make it work the way it should. And the clients are happy I spent that extra eight hours to make it so and happily pays for those extra hours. Especially when I can show them what those hours mean for the final product vs. what it could be.

I think that's the same with scenery and aircraft developers for X-Plane too. Even though the job looks killer, and they've done a lot of good things, the developer might not be satisfied with the product if it's shipped before it's completely done in the way they want it to be. That would be like shipping a prototype and just leave it.

Go buy another plane. Learn to handle it. Enjoy the sim while you can, or go outside. Bring your camera and take photos of something. I'm sure the developers will like to hear your opinion when it's released.

[Lukasz]

Art needs time. Just imagine Michaelangelo painting Sistine Chapel, high on a scaffolding, with a crowd yelling from below: "Hey Mike, is it done yet? How soon, Mike?"

[Sulman]

Art needs time. Just imagine Michaelangelo painting Sistine Chapel, high on a scaffolding, with a crowd yelling from below: "Hey Mike, is it done yet? How soon, Mike?"

My dad (a journalist) told me of this cartoon he had in this office, of a monk working on an incredibly elaborate tapestry. He's turning round with an angry face saying "Deadline? Nobody told me about a f**king deadline!"

[Jack Skieczius]

Art needs time. Just imagine Michaelangelo painting Sistine Chapel, high on a scaffolding, with a crowd yelling from below: "Hey Mike, is it done yet? How soon, Mike?"

My dad (a journalist) told me of this cartoon he had in this office, of a monk working on an incredibly elaborate tapestry. He's turning round with an angry face saying "Deadline? Nobody told me about a f**king deadline!"

In a slightly different look, someone once told me, art is never done, only abandoned. To say you are done is to simply say you are satisfied and are willing to abandon it at this point. Someday someone else many finish it.

[Ben Russell]

It's evolution, baby..

[steven winslow]

edit

[flyinhawaiian]

I love me some Pearl Jam...