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pkorkala

Limited bank angle

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...and I can't quite understand why you accept their overwhelming presence in this forum and their often coarse interactions with your patrons, when they are in no way involved with the development of the Saab.


I'm way more involved with products we sell than you realize. Don't assume things you don't know. You're very wrong with this comment. Assumptions get you in trouble.


Haskell99's comment regarding their purchase was irrelevant (and perhaps inaccurate) to their point.


They were very relevant to his point (or so he felt). That's why he made the comments and tried to use them as a form to make his point. It's not hard to comprehend what he was insinuating when he mentioned paying full price and waiting for 3 months. The problem is he used that out of context to bolster his argument. That won't fly here. Period. I'll absolutely set anyone straight who skews things.


Regardless, I don't think it's appropriate for you to use the private information you have available as an administrator regarding customer purchases to have a "Well actually..." moment, at least publicly.


We will agree to disagree. There's nothing sensitive about any of it, and if he wanted to keep it sensitive he should have left it out to begin with. I'm not even going to further argue that with you. Enough political correctness. Human to human, you're blowing things way out of proportion if non-detailed order info bothers you to your core. That's ridiculous.


...but I am not able to control that.


Find a way to control posting about it more. It's overboard.

Now that you've seen my last post that this part of the discussion is done, it really and truly is. Anymore of it and it's gone. This is not the time or place to spill your personal battles.

The Saab. That's what this topic is about, and it needs to stay that way. I hope I've made myself perfectly clear.

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3 hours ago, Cameron said:

Could you please expand on this? The aircraft utilized a 3D sound engine that has essentially the same features as FMOD, so while we will be moving towards FMOD for the sake of making things cohesive, I'm actually really curious on what sounds you feel are actually lacking and are standard. 

 

Hi, nice to see that you are working on it and are on the lookout for feedback. But I'm a good user :D I have already reported all my doubts related to sound/ bugs etc a long time ago, for example here:

Goran was kind enough to respond that missing sounds is a thing you guys want to try to improve in 2.0. Which is fine for 2.0. Obviously, In my prior posts I haven't mentioned the missing engine sounds during replays as this is a well-known thing for the plane. I like engine sounds during replays, all my planes have them, probably not without reason, but it wouldn't be a biggie, if this would be the sole issue.

 

7 hours ago, Goran_M said:

We never intended to make the Saab compatible for XP11.  It was made for XP10, and we were firm in that decision.  Then people started asking for it to be made compatible (ie. make it work) in X-Plane 11.  We did that.  We warned people that there is a completely new engine model in X-Plane 11, but it WILL work with a few small issues.

That's perfectly fine. That's exactly how I see the current status of the plane. Obviously, your warning isn't visible on the store before the purchase, and "small" means different things to different people, so criticism shouldn't be very surprising in this case.

As a general note. Goran has been always helpful and friendly on the forums and I think a lot of his work is just ingenious, but in the end I'm just rating the plane I have on my hard drive and not the developer. The current issues with the plane are significant to me, but of course they might not be to other people, that still immensely enjoy the plane. That's the beauty of having different opinions :)

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Wow! This thread escalated in a way I couldn't imagine!

I'm glad the plane is not abandoned! I just have one wish, and that is the bank angle bug to be fixed, then I'm 100% satisfied with the plane.

And I'm sorry if I did upset someone with my question, that was not my intention at all. The only reason I did continue to post in this thread was because I realized the current version was released in August (about nine months ago), and I thought that a small fix for this serious bug should've been made available in a couple of months after the release at maximum. I can just compare with other payware planes I have in X-plane, and they're way more frequently updated.

You have to look at this from the customers perspective also, not only from the developers view. I can understand your dedication to not give any kind of dates, whatsoever. But for me - as a new customer - I don't know if I can expect a bug fix this week or in the next year, and that's kind of frustrating.

Thanks!

/Peter

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This kind of complain posts, about updates, comes over and over and over again. No matter what aircraft, weather engine, developer.

 

People, please understand simulating the systems for aircrafts that cost + hundred millions on research, development and that have been engineered and improved by decades by manufacturers are not an easy task for 50 bucks??

I truly invite you to start your own business, try to come up with a close to real life simulation, offer daily updates, free updates for xp10, 11.... and impress us and make us extremely happy.

 

 

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5 hours ago, tADEUS73 said:

Hi, nice to see that you are working on it and are on the lookout for feedback. But I'm a good user :D I have already reported all my doubts related to sound/ bugs etc a long time ago, for example here

Thanks for sharing that, but I also wanted to make sure I understood you fully. I thought we had addressed those concerns to you. The way you worded it you still felt something was missing that should be standard. As Goran stated, flap sounds are pretty inaudible in the Saab. Further, even the lever is not really an audible item, especially against the dynamics in the cockpit with all the turboprop roar. Consider that pilots wear headsets and it diminishes even more! We actually DO have flap sounds, but they were done at a purposeful low decibel.

Only other thing I saw in that thread was ground roll. I need to re-visit the rumble from ground roll, but I recall that being deliberate too. I have an immense amount of time in the Saab from the years 2004-2008, and a lot of initial programming and sound work revolved around that experience.

These are really the only two things you mentioned in that topic, but the way you worded it in this topic made it out to be a bigger issue. You literally said "it lacks a lot of sounds." Is there anything else you wanted to add to that list? I'm not focused on the replay thing, just sounds that you consider to be standard.

 

4 hours ago, pkorkala said:

You have to look at this from the customers perspective also, not only from the developers view. I can understand your dedication to not give any kind of dates, whatsoever. But for me - as a new customer - I don't know if I can expect a bug fix this week or in the next year, and that's kind of frustrating.

This is valid. Having said that, I also think you could have worked on not letting your frustrations get the best of you when you said, " Maybe I should tell them to buy the Carenado Saab instead, as this version seems to be buggy and no bugfixes are available." At that point you're just pushing buttons. Totally acceptable if you want to make such recommendations to others, but not really necessary to come in here and threaten it either. You could have also just bumped up the thread with a question of any progress and left the comment out completely. :)

 

2 hours ago, mmerelles said:

People, please understand simulating the systems for aircrafts that cost + hundred millions on research, development and that have been engineered and improved by decades by manufacturers are not an easy task for 50 bucks??

This is incredibly true. It's very easy for people to get lost in it all though. The work that goes behind these projects is a really insane amount. I'm proud to say that even since X-Plane 9 and 6 years later for this particular aircraft, we are still kicking out updates free of charge. Nothing says we have to do that, but we do.

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Well, there is a work around for the bank angle issue.  The fix is a pain in the ass, especially when you're flying online, while operating this aircraft designed to be flown by two pilots.  Your yoke/joystick can override the roll function of the autopilot, without the AP disconnecting.  So, if you're being vectored to a localizer intercept, you can "help" the autopilot by increasing the roll with your yoke to a 30ish degree bank angle.  The downside to this work around is that you're already likely doing 3 other things when you need to "help" the autopilot make a turn.

When the update gets released is out of my control, so there's no use complaining about it.  But, I can see how people are upset about the AP issue.  Prior to the 1.5.1 update, the autopilot bank angle worked.  After the 1.5.1 update, the autopilot bank angle doesn't work.  I think a lot of people expected a mea culpa attitude, followed by an autopilot fix within a few days after breaking the bank angle function.

In any event, the autopilot is usable with some extra effort.

Hopefully, soon means soon.

Tim

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I am jumping in as a neutral new customer of the plane. The bank angle problem is annoying and since it is fixed in the new update  I do not understand why a hotfix can't be released. Most of the other stuff is working ok (engine temps are broken but we can survive without them).

Also by the devs it was mentioned that the plane is actually an XP10 plane but ported to XP11. In the store site it isn't really clear that it is an XP10 plane. It says XP11 compatible and "X-Plane 11 Only" so I would expect that it works perfectly. It isn't like XP11 is something new. I do appreciate that the devs are still updating it though and what is clear is that a lot of love has gone into making the Saab. What I want to bring out is that there are reasons to be a bit disappointed after buying the plane, at least for now.

Also communication is important and I wish that LES would give a bit more info than "we do not release dates" kinda answer. I understand that people get disappointed when a "deadline" is missed but a LevelDsim approach where you say little for years is also a bad way for communication. It just ends with frustration. Saab V2 has been announced for a long time but there has been no update at all so it will cause curiosity and frustration. Is there anything bad in just sharing a bit of planned upgrades and a loose percentage of how done it is. FlyJsim have a fantastic way of communication via their Discord where they livestream their update programming and 3d designing and so has HotStart (yes I know Goran is in there) so it would be nice to improve communication to loosen the tension. 

It is up to you if you choose to answer but please don't become defensive. I mean this meant as positive criticism since it is clear that you guys do care and love the plane and want us to have a great simulation experience.

 

Regards,

 Manfred

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The aircraft is actually an X-Plane 9 plane that has been continually updated. It's last major update was in X-Plane 10. The aircraft is now X-Plane 11 only because it makes use of some PBR and other items X-Plane 10 cannot handle.

We will not provide further updates on release times. Until you've been on our end of that situation I don't think you'll ever understand our side of that. We used to do it. We no longer will based on experiences from doing that in the past.

Anyone is here to communicate. Pestering about when something will be released doesn't do anything for anyone. That's not really a communication issue at that point, and v2 is a separate product that no one has purchased, thus no one is entitled to. In reality, many customers started talking up v2 way more than we ever did. We really haven't been trying to sales pitch that other than something in the distant future.

Hot fixes cannot be released for the bank angle because there are other code changes with it unfinished. Just because the cause of the bank angle was identified and solved for the next patch does not equate to a patch being ready. When it's ready it'll be released. When it's ready for release it'll be announced. Those are two things we can promise.

It's being worked on daily. Hashing this out in a forum does no one any benefit except take our time to answer you the same thing said over and over....and there goes another five minutes of my day. :)

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