Massive fps drop with 3.1

[kneighbour]

On 10/04/2016 at 5:43 PM, Defiance_co said:

Hiya,

The initial defaults aren't bad as such ........ far from it, they just need adjusting like mine if not running a titan x hehe

Well, I am running pretty much the same thing as a Titan, and I cannot run with the Default settings. But like everything with X-Plane, there are so many interacting elements, it is hard to juggle them all. I can see why people just give up. I have just upgraded my system, and I have been spending nearly all of my XP time playing with settings, not actually flying. That is how things got with FSX in the end - I recall not having flown for several months, but still spent a lot of time playing with new aircraft, settings, etc. That is why I gave it away.

[Cameron]

8 minutes ago, kneighbour said:

Well, I am running pretty much the same thing as a Titan, and I cannot run with the Default settings. But like everything with X-Plane, there are so many interacting elements, it is hard to juggle them all. I can see why people just give up. I have just upgraded my system, and I have been spending nearly all of my XP time playing with settings, not actually flying. That is how things got with FSX in the end - I recall not having flown for several months, but still spent a lot of time playing with new aircraft, settings, etc. That is why I gave it away.

I want to figure out a way to help you get to the bottom of this, but we will need to work together if you're willing.

My very first recommendation to you is going to be to install a second demo copy of X-Plane to your computer. Fresh, vanilla, and no other add-ons. Replicate your exact rendering settings in your current X-Plane install, and export out your saved settings from the SkyMaxx Pro v3.1 config menu. Re-install SkyMaxx Pro 3.1 to your new demo copy of X-Plane, and copy over the saved settings from your old X-Plane install to the new: X-Plane/resources/plugins/SilverLining/SavedSettings

What type of performance do you get in the vanilla install?

[kneighbour]

Ok - running up the Demo version - and in fact sitting at a location where there is no scenery. Should be the fastest possible. All plugins (only X-Camera installed) disabled. Render settings same as in the full version. Set SMP to Default. Getting fps of 19. cpu=0.050, gpu=0.05. SMP says 4250 mb video free, and 24068mb system ram free. All settings are set to Default. ie Cloud Detail=350m and Cloud Area covered=4900sqkm. Cloud Reflections OFF.

I am sitting at YBBN (a lake of water) and in the default Cessna 172. Cannot get much of a lower load than that! I loaded in real weather, which is a fairly overcast day. Quite a typical cloud cover.

If I go into Plugin Admin and disable SMP, fps=170. Turn ON SMP, fps=30. Quite a large fps drop!

If I slowly drop the Cloud Area covered down to around 2900 sq km, instantly the fps will rise to 130.  It is not a linear increase from 30 - 130. It is around 30...40...then...130. It then seems fairly linear as I drop the distance from 2900 -> 1200. At around 1200 sq km, we are getting 170 fps.

Back to Default (ie Reset)

- Crisp => 30 fps

- Soft => 28 fps

- Fast => 30 fps

Back to Default (ie Reset)

Cloud Reflections OFF => 30 fps

Cloud Reflections ON => 100 fps
This seems weird - common sense seems to indicate that this is back to front?

 

The particular fps readings are based on the weather selected, of course. I tried a few other fixed weather situations and the figures varied a fair bit, but the ratios were about the same. Currently got the weather set to VFR. The framerate range is from 75 (SMP on) - 180 (SMP off). 

Here is a clue for you - if I disable SMP, fps=170.Enable SMP, fps=45. I then turn Cloud Reflections OF (it was off, as that is the Default). fps=170. Turn reflections back OFF - and fps stays at 170. So now we are sitting at the default situation with normal fps (ie 170). Toggling the Cloud Reflections seemed to fix whatever problem I had.

I can press the Reset/Apply button now, and it stays at 170fps.

Then I turn OFF SMP. Then back ON again. fps=45.

repeat....

 

I have done this several times. When I first turn on SMP (as in loading XP normally) or using Plugin admin., I get the 45 fps. If I then turn ON Cloud Reflections, fps is 170 and it will stay pretty much around that no matter what I do.

I tried turning SMP OFF/ON with the Cloud Reflections ON. No good either.

All I have to do is CHANGE the Cloud Reflections, whether ON or OFF does not matter. The fact that I change the Cloud Reflections is enough to fix the framerate. Until I restart SMP again.

 

I hope all of this has been some help.

am looking forward keenly to the weather injector...

 

 

 

[sundog]

kneighbor, I think my system is pretty similar to yours, so I tried the same experiment. Went to YBBN (although that wasn't a lake for me) with a default aircraft and default SMP settings. But with or without SMP, my framerates were similar - between 70 and 80. I measured framerates using FRAPS and X-Plane's built-in framerate display with the same result.

I suspect what you're seeing is very specific to your X-Plane rendering settings and/or NVidia driver settings. If you can narrow down which one, it would be helpful.

Getting technical, what you're describing sounds like memory is getting fragmented by the driver. When you change cloud settings in SMP, it causes the old set of clouds to get discarded and a new set to be recreated, which could clear up fragmentation problems. I'm running the 364.72 driver here FWIW.

I should point out that 45 FPS is actually a pretty good framerate; 30 or above will produce fluid motion. Keep in mind your brain can't even perceive framerates higher than 60.

[kneighbour]

I decided it might be the video driver also. So went back to 353.50, 358.50, 361.43 and currently 364.72, the same as yours. It seemed to make a difference, although not sure what. SMP did not make as much difference after each reinstall. I did not restart the computer after each install, if that makes any difference. But today I fire up the computer and it is back to 'normal'.

SMP On => 27.

I went through all the Render settings and set everything either to off or to their lowest setting. All except Texture Resolution, which is on Extreme. This needs a restart. Fps is unchanged at 27.

Turn OFF SMP, and fps =100.

I dropped Texture Resolution and restarted XP. The same. XP reports the texture size as 301 megs. SMP reports 4979 mb of video and 25981 mb of system RAM free.

I am using the Demo version with no scenery as it starts up pretty quickly (for XP). The fps are not that important, the point being that SMP makes a HUGE difference.

So - nothing on the Render screen seems to make any difference at all in this test situation. I suspect it wouldn't as there is nothing to draw. I am sitting on a basic runway, in a lake of water. No scenery, no roads, no trees.

You would think that if changing Cloud Reflections was resetting the fragmentation settings, then so would turning SMP off and on again.

Cloud Reflections, Cloud Shadows, Crepuscular Rays, Sky Colors, Cloud Blend Softness seem to be the only settings that triggers the 'reset'. The other settings do not. ie I can set Cirrus Layer Resolution from Med to High, and it takes ages to reload. The screen blacks out at one point. Then reloads with the same 17 fps. This looked like a pretty good video reset as it blacked out and all.

These adjustments make no difference (to the framerate)

Fast/Soft/Crisp, Stratus/Overcast Representation, Lens Flare, Cirrus Layer resolution.

If I move the Cloud Blend Softness even the slightest bit - good framerates! I moved the slider from 500 (the Default) to 503, and I get 60 fps! Hard to move the slider any less than that. The Cloud Details and Cloud Size sliders do not have this immediate effect. I can set the slider to max (1000) and still get 60fps. And it is pretty instant - no long pause and full redrawing the screen for this one.

If I set the Cloud Blend to 1000, Apply the Changes, then press the Reset button, the value displayed goes back to 500, but the slider still stays at 1,000. It does not have to be 1000, you can set the slider anywhere - when you press the Reset it does not move to the correct value. This seems to be a bug.

Cloud Details - never makes any difference, even at min

Min Cloud Size slider - make no difference

Max Cloud Size slider - come good at minimum (3100m)

Cloud Area  - come good at around 2900 sq km

The thing with the slider 'come good' - it is not permanent. If I set the sliders back to normal again, the frame rates die again. With the trigger switches and Cloud blend, once SMP switches to normal speed, it stays there no matter what you do. Until you restart SMP again, of course.

And please note - I can get the framerates pretty good (currently 60), then all I have to do is turn SMP off, then on again. Framerates 17. Every time. Do nothing else. I have done it dozens of times. Perhaps when you start up SMP, do what you do when you set one of the 'trigger' conditions mentioned above?

I don't do anything on the NVidia Control Panel. Just install drivers and leave it at whatever is default. I am not installing NVidia Experience.

Edited April 12, 2016 by kneighbour

[sundog]

The slider issue when resetting the cloud/terrain blending is at least something I can see. I've fixed that here for a future update.

As for everything else you're seeing - I'm as puzzled as you are. I'm simply not seeing that behavior here, nor seeing similar reports from others that aren't VRAM-related. I've tried everything you described doing, and none of it affects my framerate. I'm tempted to blame defective hardware, but that would be a fairly fantastic claim to make.

Have you tried totally uninstalling your driver prior to installing the latest?

I'll keep trying to reproduce this and sleep on it, but so far I don't have a rational explanation for what's happening on your system.

 

[kneighbour]

2 minutes ago, sundog said:

The slider issue when resetting the cloud/terrain blending is at least something I can see. I've fixed that here for a future update.

As for everything else you're seeing - I'm as puzzled as you are. I'm simply not seeing that behavior here, nor seeing similar reports from others that aren't VRAM-related. I've tried everything you described doing, and none of it affects my framerate. I'm tempted to blame defective hardware, but that would be a fairly fantastic claim to make.

"I was really happy with SkyMaxx Pro until version 3.1. That version is killing my framerates -30 fps with clear skies. "

Well, there is at least one other user that I know of that seems to have the same problem. That is from a user on the org that is using a GTX680 4g VRAM.

My system is brand new - a total upgrade. So brand new Windows 7 and all new hardware. I was getting pretty poor framerates in XP in general for several days after the update. I disabled SMP 3 and that seemed to fix my problem. Was getting general XP framerates of 20+ most of the time (with everything maxxed out). Then turned off SMP 3 and got 30+. Not too happy with that though - so there could be something else going on. SMP 3.1 is a different ball game. Pretty much unusable unless I 'trigger' it.

If it is a hardware issue I think I would have a hard time convincing my retailer. I have done benchmarks on the system and the video card (ie Cinebench and the like) and they come out as per normal for my hardware.

I am a programmer myself, so can fully understand that if you cannot duplicate the problem, then it is hard to fix.

 

[kneighbour]

Have you tried going back to a clean Demo version?

I find that the results are different in the Demo version than in the full version. In the full version, I don't seem to have the 'trigger' fields as in the Demo version. The only way I can get SMP to work in the full version is to wind down the Cloud distance to 2900 or less. Nothing else seems to do anything, much as in your situation. For all practical purposes, I simply cannot use SMP in the full version as I start at around 30 fps with SMP off, and <10 with SMP on.

[sundog]

Well the difference is, in the full version my framerates are fine and basically unaffected by SMP. I'll try the demo version though, that's a good suggestion.

I'm working on some changes too just based on my best guess as to what might be triggering whatever is happening to you.

[Cameron]

Kerry,

Can't believe I didn't ask this before...for good measure can you please post a screenshot of your full version rendering settings window, as well as your SkyMaxx Pro config window?

[TimeTraveler]

31 minutes ago, Cameron said:

Kerry,

Can't believe I didn't ask this before...for good measure can you please post a screenshot of your full version rendering settings window, as well as your SkyMaxx Pro config window?

I'd also ask about his NVIDIA control panel settings. That can make a huge difference. Screenshot(s) would tell alot

[kneighbour]

1 hour ago, Cameron said:

Kerry,

Can't believe I didn't ask this before...for good measure can you please post a screenshot of your full version rendering settings window, as well as your SkyMaxx Pro config window?

Well, the SMP settings are simple. The defaults, ie just press the Reset button in SMP.

 

NVIDIA System Information 04-13-2016 15-10-35.txt

[sundog]

Your NVidia system information says you have two different NVidia cards installed at once. How exactly are those set up?

Also, I tried what you suggested just testing with a clean demo install and going to YBBN. I enabled and disabled SMP several times, but consistently my framerate with SMP OFF was around 116, and with it ON around 132.

Main differences I see between our systems is you have two cards installed, while I have a single GTX970. Also you're on Windows 7, and I'm on 10.

Edited April 13, 2016 by sundog

[kneighbour]

26 minutes ago, sundog said:

Your NVidia system information says you have two different NVidia cards installed at once. How exactly are those set up?

Also, I tried what you suggested just testing with a clean demo install and going to YBBN. I enabled and disabled SMP several times, but consistently my framerate with SMP OFF was around 116, and with it ON around 132.

Main differences I see between our systems is you have two cards installed, while I have a single GTX970. Also you're on Windows 7, and I'm on 10.

I use the system for work - I am a computer programmer. So I use 5 monitors for that. For X-Plane, I use only 1 monitor.

GTX980 - connected to 40" main screen - Monitor 1

integrated (mobo) video -  Monitor 2

USB adapator - Monitor 3

GTX-560 - Monitor 4 and Monitor 5.

With the test SMP, my Demo version is the same. Huge fps diff - like 70 off to 15 On. With my full working system, it is fairly good. In fact, could not see much difference with it off or on. So as far as I am concerned, I don't have a problem anymore (in that area). I have tweaked my render settings so that I am getting 40+ fps and it seems to stay there, SMP on or off.

The demo situation is a funny one. It might indicate a problem or it might not.

Windows 10 might be making a difference. I had it on my current system for a few hours, and it seemed a lot faster. I removed it due to the ridiculous security it imposes (and other reasons). But it might be a factor.

Anyway, I am happy for now. Hopefully the Weather Connector will fix my other problem with SMP, so time will tell there.

 

 

[Bob439]

Hi,

 

At Kneighbour's suggestion I ran some tests this morning. I took some screen shots. I have a Win 64 Pro 64bit system i7 3770 with 16 Gb ram and a GE Force GTX 680 video card with 4 Gb ram.

The first one is upon initial loading:

16fps

 

The second is with SkyMaxx off:

41 fps

I turned SkyMaxx Pro back on  and I then went into the SkyMaxx config:

14fps

I enabled cloud reflections:

 

Now I have 41 fps with SkyMaxx Pro on:

Edited April 13, 2016 by Bob439

[sundog]

Bob, I think your situation is a little different from kneighbor's. If you look at the memory display in the SkyMaxx Pro configuration, you'll see you're almost out of video memory. Usually this happens from custom scenery, or just having a video card with a very small amount of VRAM. You're asking X-Plane to draw more information than your system can handle. When you run out of video memory, your graphic driver needs to start swapping data in a very slow manner, and this can kill performance.

The easiest thing for now is to reduce the cloud draw area setting; this can at least reduce the memory needed by our clouds. SkyMaxx Pro's default cloud draw distance is higher in 3.1 than it was in 3.0, so if you were on the edge of running out of memory in 3.0, 3.1 can push you over that edge.

The reason turning on reflections, or toggling any cloud-related setting, helps is because it forces the driver to reload our clouds into memory, which can clear up memory fragmentation issues the driver may have encountered when memory got scarce. You can see it gave you back just enough video memory to get things going again. But it's only a temporary solution.

Short answer: reduce your cloud draw area setting. Turning off cloud shadows, reflections, and setting the softness to 0 can also help.

[nikit]

I think that have similar problem and for me the problem may be is not the VRAM because have 782MB with 14 FPS  and more of 800MB with 44 FPS,only change 1000 sq km in cloud average coverage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob439]

7 hours ago, sundog said:

Bob, I think your situation is a little different from kneighbor's. If you look at the memory display in the SkyMaxx Pro configuration, you'll see you're almost out of video memory. Usually this happens from custom scenery, or just having a video card with a very small amount of VRAM. You're asking X-Plane to draw more information than your system can handle. When you run out of video memory, your graphic driver needs to start swapping data in a very slow manner, and this can kill performance.

The easiest thing for now is to reduce the cloud draw area setting; this can at least reduce the memory needed by our clouds. SkyMaxx Pro's default cloud draw distance is higher in 3.1 than it was in 3.0, so if you were on the edge of running out of memory in 3.0, 3.1 can push you over that edge.

The reason turning on reflections, or toggling any cloud-related setting, helps is because it forces the driver to reload our clouds into memory, which can clear up memory fragmentation issues the driver may have encountered when memory got scarce. You can see it gave you back just enough video memory to get things going again. But it's only a temporary solution.

Short answer: reduce your cloud draw area setting. Turning off cloud shadows, reflections, and setting the softness to 0 can also help.

I did a few more tests over the day. I kept X-Plane open only to check the livery project I'm working on, and from what I've seen it looks like you have a memory leak. The longer X-Plane runs the lower the available resources become.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Bob439

[Cameron]

10 minutes ago, Bob439 said:

I did a few more tests over the day. I kept X-Plane open only to check the livery project I'm working on and from what I've seen it looks like you have a memory leak. The longer X-Plane runs the lower the available resources are.

Definitely confident we have no memory leaks. Not only many times in past, but especially today we spent hours with diagnostics turned on in builds of SkyMaxx Pro v3.1, as well profilers. We can easily rule this one out. The resource information from SkyMaxx Pro's readings will show you complete computer stats. If you're running other apps, building up a cache, etc, all of this is going to effect the bottom line of this number.

We do have some changes in the works for a new version update, but I am certainly confident with my above statement.

[Ben Russell]

Fragmentation and an overloaded VRAM demand could easily turn out looking the same as a memory leak.

 

Reduce your scenery and other options so that SMP has a clean-sheet of VRAM to work with. 

Then when your driver is NOT fighting with possible fragmentation run your long duration burn in tests and I suspect you will find no "leaks".

[sundog]

Bear in mind too that as you enter new weather conditions for the first time, SMP may allocate more memory in response. That's normal behavior, and not a leak. The amount of memory SMP consumes has an upper bound that it properly enforces, but it can take time to hit it. The size of that upper bound depends mostly on your cloud draw area and cloud detail settings.

[seth]

Hi

same issue here...huge frame drop from 30 ( as i am using half adaptive vsync from Nvidia control panel) to  9 or 10. When i disable SMP 3.1 framerates are back to 30s.

CPU: 3930k ( OC 4,7 ) , GTX 980 , 32g ram 2133  and X-plane 10 installed on SSD. 

the weird part is that i have a  frame drop during the flight  and sometimes with out any clouds...around. Reducing "the cloud are covered" to 2000 km from default settings  indeed fix the issue ...but is this normal ?  beside that SMP 3.1 is amazing and for sure the best add-on on XP10

 

[sundog]

It's normal if you're on the verge of running out of memory, either on your video card or your system memory. While the GTX980 is an awesome card, it's still pretty easy to fill it up with custom scenery, third party aircraft, and/or HD mesh stuff. Basically anything you can adjust in your configuration to conserve memory will help performance; reducing the cloud draw area is just one possibility. If you can lower some rendering settings, or eliminate scenery and add-ons you don't need, that can help a lot.

[simrussia]

Hello. Yesterday I removed version 3.1.2 and Real Weather Connector, established version 3.0. With version 3.1.2 of FPS drop to 10-15, after switching off of SkyMaxx Pro in plugin admin, FPS increased to 50+. With version 3.0 without plug-in RWC, i have 30 to 75 FPS at such settings

 

my PC: Asus Maximus Formula / Intel 4770k@4200 / 16GB RAM / Nvidia GTX980 / OS Win 10x64 (SSD 128Gb), X-Plane 10 x64 Steam version (SSD 512Gb).

[sundog]

15 hours ago, simrussia said:

Hello. Yesterday I removed version 3.1.2 and Real Weather Connector, established version 3.0. With version 3.1.2 of FPS drop to 10-15, after switching off of SkyMaxx Pro in plugin admin, FPS increased to 50+. With version 3.0 without plug-in RWC, i have 30 to 75 FPS at such settings

You are probably running out of video memory, causing your video driver to start swapping memory (which kills performance.). Are you running with a lot of custom scenery and other add-ons?

If you check the SkyMaxx Pro configuration screen, it will tell you how much free VRAM you have. If it's less than a few hundred megabytes, you need to reduce some settings or reduce some add-ons to free some more up. Installing a fresh copy of X-Plane and only adding in the scenery and add-ons you need usually helps people.