JustinWheat Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 What default AIRAC cycle will the aircraft be released with? This will be update able through Navigraph correct?
Cameron Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Hi there, The AIRAC will be whatever we are allowed to ship with by Aerosoft NavDataPro (it seems that will be the format of choice). There is no set in stone position on this, so take this as "in development" information at this time.
ChevyRules Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Will navigraph's service also allowed to be used for us to update the AIRAC?
Cameron Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Remains to be seen. Somewhere along the line they change formatting and it does not play well with the 737, so for now that answer is no. Aerosoft has been the choice now for a while and that continues to work swell. I'd love to hear opinions on this though!
ChevyRules Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 It would be great to make it work with navigraph as well. All of my add ons for X-Plane are compatible with navigraph. Would certainly cause a bit of pause for me at least to buy the 733 because I am not sure about having to buy another service that I already have my needs met just to have updated nav data for one plane. Is it a deal breaker? Don't know yet, but it would suck to have to spend more money on a redundant service just to be able to keep things up to date on the 733.
Cameron Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Have you checked to see if those same products are already supported by Aerosoft? My bet is they are! When the team did early route draw testing Aerosoft seemed to outperform navigraph data in accurate drawing and data location. It's part of the motivation to move that way.
ckZA Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 First post here, but I'm a Navigraph user too and just went into a year's subscription with AIRAC and Charts. Would be a bit of a pain to subscribe to Aerosoft too. Not a complete deal breaker - just my $0.02.
mgeiss Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 I would also prefer Navigraph if it's possible to have the choice.
Cameron Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 So here's where we stand: As mentioned, in previous time we have tested Navigraph data over Aerosoft. The result was Aersoft data rendered more accurate to how one would expect in drawing routes. Aerosoft has been very communicative when approached by anyone. Navigraph has been known to leave developers hanging for months without answering to get a new format up. IXEG has had previous attempts to talk to them, and I distinctly remember having a similar "mini crisis" back when the CRJ was released where they also failed to respond for weeks to months on end. We have to go with where communication is welcome, responded to, and the provided data accurately depicts what should be seen on the displays. You would THINK the data would be identical, but for whatever reason it is not, and I do even remember Philipp of Flight Factor and the CRJ touching up on this very subject at one time. If I have to be completely honest, I think we're going to end up with Aerosoft out the gate. Perhaps we can attempt to look at flexibility down the line, but one thing we don't have is time or patience to wait for a company like Navigraph to not respond to our inquiries and ultimately hold up a release. That's bad news for all. Anyways, thanks for the "votes" here guys. I get where you're coming from. I was a Navigraph guy myself for years.
mgeiss Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) It's oboiusly the developer's choice, so we'll have to go with whatever he chooses.I will stick with Navigraph for all my AIRAC- and chart-subscriptions, but I don't have a problem with updating the IXEG seperately through Aerosoft.I don't have any real-life experience about how a route should be drawn, I can only say that I didn't have any issues with routing, SIDs or STARs using Navigraph navdata in any plane or sim, flying offline or online. Even on Pilotedge, which I consider being the "strictest" online network for the amateur. I'm suprised that you had issues when dealing with Navigraph. I always got prompt, helpful and friendly support when I had a problem or question. Edited November 18, 2015 by mgeiss
heinz92 Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 I too am a Navigraph subscriber as it comes in a neat package with charts. It will be a bit of a pain having to get another subscription and while Aerosoft is cheaper, it does not appear to have charts. Anyone know of any cheaper alternatives for charts? As far as I know there is no option to get them separately from Navigraph..
mgeiss Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Maybe it would be an option (at least for a future update) to use an already existing format, so the user can freely choose the source for updates.There are some payware addons out there that use an existing format for their FMCs. For example the Leonardo MD-80 uses PMDG data, others use the Aerosoft Airbus format. Anyone know of any cheaper alternatives for charts? As far as I know there is no option to get them separately from Navigraph.. You can get a charts-only subscription from Navigraph. It's €65,33 for the first year and €59,38 for a renewal. Edited November 18, 2015 by mgeiss 1
KAPTEJNLN Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 You can get charts for EU if you go to eurocontrol but it´s the official charts so they are different from country to country, so they are not the same standard as Lido charts or any other that provide it for simulator or real use.but is what the charts from Lufthansa Lido and Jeppesen charts are based on, just they provide in a standard format as far as I know.. But I also hope for both Navigraph and Aerosoft support, as some have one of them and a bit sad if the user is forced to select something els just for 1 plane especially if you just started on a 1 year, before you see this..
Cameron Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 Folks, as stated, Aerosoft supports essentially all formats as far as I can tell. This may ultimately mean you stop subscribing to one and move to the other. Their supported list includes: Aerosoft Airbus A318 / A319 Aerosoft AirbusX Extended/Standard (FSX; Prepar3D) FlightSim Commander (FSX; Prepar3D) FS Navigator (FS2004) aeroSystem 737 Avionics AivlaSoft Electronic Flight Bag (FSX/Prepa3d v2) CaptainSim 757/767 (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) Digital Aviation Piper Cheyenne (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) Eurowings Professional (FS2004) EADT KLN 90B (X-Plane) Eaglesoft Cessna Citation (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) Flight1 ATR 72, BN2-Islander, C182T, Fokker, Mustang, Super 80 Professional (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) FSBuild 2.4 FsXPand - Flyware (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) iFly Boeing 737 (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) Integrated Simavionics (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) JRollon Planes CRJ200 (X-Plane) Level-D 767 (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) Majestic Dash 8 Q400 (FSX/Prepa3d/Prepa3d v2) PMDG alle Produkte (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) Pointsoft PRO-ATC/X Prosim 737 PSS Boeing 777; A330; A340 (FS2004) QualityWings 757 (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) QualityWings Jumbolino (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) Sim-Avionics Flightdeck Avionics TuneVNAV Descent Pro3 vasFMC X-FMC (X-Plane) Wilco/Feelthere 737/777 Airbus, Citation X, Embraer E-Jets v.2, Legacy (FSX; Prepar3D; FS2004) Ideal Flight 10 777 Worldliner Professional/Extended (X-Plane) Boeing 757 Professional (X-Plane) JARDesign A320neo (X-Plane) JeeHellWare FJCC Universal FMC (X-Plane) SSG B748-i Global ATC Simcheck A300 FMC (FSX) EFASS - Electronic Flight Assistant Professional Flight Planner X X-Plane 10 (V 10.00 - 10.xx) GNS430 (X-Plane 10.30) SimLauncherX @mgeiss the format is already a mix of two existing formats. Navigraph still does not work at this time.
KAPTEJNLN Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 eh yes but that´s not the point, as I was refering to 1 that just got a 1 year by Navigraph thats the point, I have to pay 2 providers for 1 year as a maximum of cause.. As Navigraph is not gona give me a refund just because I find I want to fly this plane and they may not support it.. I guess that´s what the most are talking about here.. Then there are those that feel they stay to Navigraph because they get it at a lower price when they combine FMS data and charts.. as you get discound by combining those. So in the end by selecting aerosoft NavDataPro that is 3 eur more expensive then Navigraph and have to pay extra for a chart Subscription as it´s not part of a bundle.. it gets more expensive in all ways in the long run as well.. Yes aerosoft and Navigraph support´s the same / close to, but it was not the main point..
Cameron Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 Ultimately the choice is yours. Now you have answers as to where things currently stand with the product and you can adjust your thoughts accordingly. If your purchase comes down to an AIRAC cycle and who is providing that data then so be it! Perhaps one day both will be supported. For now (and likely at release), such is not the case.
HansRoaming Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 Given that Navigraph support the Aerosoft X Extended and there is no copyright / patent that can be put on a file format then I suspect that Navigraph will support the IEXG aircraft so not sure it's going to be an issue. Competition is good, hopefully will mean they get back to devs with questions 1
tkyler Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 The problem we've seen with Navigraph is that their format for procedures is inconsistent. We obviously have to write code to parse the file and interpret the procedures and Navigraph will have, in the same file, two separate syntax for the same type of procedure...and while we read one of them fine, there is a new one in there also that would take a bit of effort to parse. What this means is that if you use the navigraph dataset, then some procedure will be missing from the FMS. Ultimately, we can add code to parse this "strange syntax", but its not our first choice. The fact that there is two 'competing' syntax in the file for the same procedure type doesn't make any sense and we'd rather navigraph correct the issue. If they do that, then there is absolutely no problem with using the navigraph format. We will look into the issue post release. -tkyler 2
SkyCoyote Posted November 19, 2015 Report Posted November 19, 2015 Folks, as stated, Aerosoft supports essentially all formats as far as I can tell. This may ultimately mean you stop subscribing to one and move to the other. Their supported list includes:It appears this list of Aerosoft supported aircraft sims is FSX heavy. There's a reason I've always referred to Microsoft products as Microcrap. My reasons are much too lengthy to explain here. I'd like to hear how Austin Meyer would weigh-in on this topic.
Cameron Posted November 19, 2015 Report Posted November 19, 2015 It appears this list of Aerosoft supported aircraft sims is FSX heavy. Try not to say the same thing about Navigraph! I'd like to hear how Austin Meyer would weigh-in on this topic. He'd go Aerosoft...because he already does.
WagnerTenor Posted November 19, 2015 Report Posted November 19, 2015 My 2 cents. Navigraph. I used Areosoft, ending up dropping them. Did not like them.
Cameron Posted November 19, 2015 Report Posted November 19, 2015 My 2 cents. Navigraph. I used Areosoft, ending up dropping them. Did not like them. Can you expand on why?
SkyCoyote Posted November 19, 2015 Report Posted November 19, 2015 As far as who I choose to obtain navigation data from I’m open. However, the Aerosoft web site mentions compatible with Mac OS 10.5 or higher, But… I just looked at Aerosoft’s Manual for “NavDataPro”. Looking at the manual leaves me a little uneasy, as it is laden with the Microsoft PC look. The installation even mentions allowing the software to be loaded in default location “C:\Aerosoft\”. That file system, as well as a “Control Panel” is non-existent on the Mac. I don't want to come off sounding like a Mac-snob, I've used both platforms, among others that have not withstood the test of time. I've been using the Mac since 1987, and enjoyed the reliability.
Cameron Posted November 19, 2015 Report Posted November 19, 2015 It works on Mac. Just so happens their manual was Windows minded.
MatsHellman Posted November 19, 2015 Report Posted November 19, 2015 I was using Aerosoft NavData Pro a few years ago but moved to Navigraph because I got the charts from them also. I know this might not be the place to discuss this but could someone explain in short why the Aerosoft one is superior with procedures? So Cameron wrote, "As mentioned, in previous time we have tested Navigraph data over Aerosoft. The result was Aersoft data rendered more accurate to how one would expect in drawing routes.". In practice what does this mean? I'm all for using the one needed but if I move from one provider to the other I need a reason, other than the 733 supports it I still have 8 months to go on my current subscription and as a user I have been very happy with NaviGraph. 3
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