[SOLVED] Condition lever + CH throttle quadrant

[JimboG]

For what it worth I can also report unusual behaviour with the condition levers being set with the CH TQ. I see issues with the settings being "forgotten" after a re-load of the aircraft and after the auto-engine start being ran. Strange. I also see the levers *not* work when selecting "Use Joystick" and other times vice versa. Even to the point where perhaps the left lever has "Use Joystick" selected and right not, in order to be able to move them with the hardware.

All in all I would have to agree that at this stage something doesn't seem right with how this operates.

Happy to test or assist in any way I can. Thanks very much.

Kind regards,

James

[JGregory]

For what it worth I can also report unusual behaviour with the condition levers being set with the CH TQ. I see issues with the settings being "forgotten" after a re-load of the aircraft and after the auto-engine start being ran. Strange. I also see the levers *not* work when selecting "Use Joystick" and other times vice versa. Even to the point where perhaps the left lever has "Use Joystick" selected and right not, in order to be able to move them with the hardware.

All in all I would have to agree that at this stage something doesn't seem right with how this operates.

Happy to test or assist in any way I can. Thanks very much.

Kind regards,

James

As I said above... the settings ARE NOT saved when you quit the sim or re-load the aircraft. That wouldn't work.  They should be retained during Auto-Start but I found a bug, which has now been fixed and will be in the next update.  As I also said, I have desensitized the assignment process, which will probably resolve many of the other issues. 

 

We will address any further issues once you have the update.

 

Jim

Lead Programmer

LES Saab 340A

[JimboG]

Fair enough Jim, thanks for the feedback. Sorry I didn't remember the entire contents of the thread before I posted about the settings not being saved.

(Had been watching some TV in between reading threads and just didn't read the whole thread properly. Sorry)

Cheers

James

Edited September 22, 2013 by JimboG

[ss8913]

Jim - it sounds like what you're planning in that update should solve the problems that JimboG and I are having - I will submit a full report as soon as the update has been released and I have given it a try.

[JGregory]

Jim - it sounds like what you're planning in that update should solve the problems that JimboG and I are having - I will submit a full report as soon as the update has been released and I have given it a try.

Thanks!

[Hobelflieger]

Same problem by me - Saitek throttle, the left condition lever works, the right one don't.

 

Thanks.

[Cameron]

Same problem by me - Saitek throttle, the left condition lever works, the right one don't.

Thanks.

Read the entire thread please.

[Mario Donick]

I have an understanding question:

 

Why did you decide against simply using the standard "PROP" axis for the condition levers? What is the advantage of your custom solution?

[Cameron]

Why did you decide against simply using the standard "PROP" axis for the condition levers? What is the advantage of your custom solution?

 

Because the prop lever in X-Plane's logic does not do what a condition lever does...

 

Not only do condition levers control fuel in a turbo-prop, they also control prop pitch. There's A LOT more going on here than a PROP axis can allow for.

[Mario Donick]

Yeah, that's a semantic explanation, but not a technical one.

 

Because in the end, you just get a numerical value from a physical axis, regardless how it is called. What is different in this regard when you get this value in the custom way in contrast to the XP standard way? For example, does the numerical range differ, does your approach deliver more precise results? I want to know what's going on technically

[JGregory]

Yeah, that's a semantic explanation, but not a technical one.

 

Because in the end, you just get a numerical value from a physical axis, regardless how it is called. What is different in this regard when you get this value in the custom way in contrast to the XP standard way? For example, does the numerical range differ, does your approach deliver more precise results? I want to know what's going on technically

When you assign "prop" to an axis it not only drives the axis values but also some other X-Plane dataref values for the props themselves.  This would prevent us from simulating the Saab properly. The Saab's condition levers do multiple things and therefore we needed to override everything and control all of this in the code.

 

Jim

Lead Programmer

LES Saab 340A

[Mario Donick]

Thanks, Jim, for the explanation. Now I see better why you had to do it.

[ss8913]

it seems to be a common issue with properly-modeled turboprops.  As I stated earlier, the JS32 also has this issue, and they have no way to assign an axis to the CLs *at all*, so kudos to LES for coming up with a solution.  Maybe the JS32 folks will borrow the method?

 

Perhaps this is something that Laminar can address in XP11 though, so that these kinds of workarounds by third-party developers are no longer needed in the future, and XP itself knows how to properly read a 'condition lever' for a turboprop?

[JGregory]

Perhaps this is something that Laminar can address in XP11 though, so that these kinds of workarounds by third-party developers are no longer needed in the future, and XP itself knows how to properly read a 'condition lever' for a turboprop?

Laminar doesn't need to wait until XP11.  This could be put in one of the XP10 updates.  I have a method I would like to see implemented, which I will be presenting to Laminar soon.

[ss8913]

even better.  XP10.x updates are free.  I like free. and updates.  So free updates, you can imagine how I feel about those

[tomcat357]

My JS32 Condition Levers work fine,,,,,go figure

 

 

[Condition Levers]

axis=12

dataref=sim/cockpit2/engine/actuators/prop_rotation_speed_rad_sec_all(float)

drh=168

drl=90

 

[ss8913]

huh, maybe they released an update(?)  .. I remember when I bought it (the JS32), I had this problem, I asked on their (JS32) forums, they said, "that's just how it is and we can't fix it," at least at the time.

Edited September 25, 2013 by ss8913

[Cameron]

huh, maybe they released an update(?)  .. I remember when I bought it (the JS32), I had this problem, I asked on their (JS32) forums, they said, "that's just how it is and we can't fix it," at least at the time.

 

A topic for another thread, folks.

[tomcat357]

I was just implying that xjoymap is a simple fix for the condition levers. Saab and Js32,  I have a file for every plane I fly and my cockpit is mapped to it and not any sim commands. Change planes and my cockpit stays the same..Over 250 buttons. Hey Cameron, if you read this , about the condition levers, when I pull them back a little while in flight, the Saab speeds up, is that natural, not a problem just wondering.

[stavka]

Hi Goran,

 

If i understood correctly in a soon future patch the CL config system will be changed a little? I'm looking forward to that because i'm using a CH TQ and i have much difficult to it detect my axis on CH TQ. I have many josticks and wheels connected to my PC and this CL config system strangely only detect axis=0 or a wrong one.

 

Best regards

Edited September 26, 2013 by stavka

[ss8913]

oh you never mentioned the name of the addon for which you've been pasting those config snippets.. I'll take a look at xjoymap, thanks

 

The saab will 'speed up' when you pull them back because there is a detent on the CL past 'MAX' that you generally don't want to use in most cases.. I leave mine at MAX during takeoff and then at cruise I pull them back into the green arc, just like I used to do on the Piper Arrow, and like I do on other turboprops, to keep the prop RPM in the green and provide more efficient cruise settings.  Also, like the JS32, *easy on the levers*.  They don't like being jerked around.  When you move the throttles, you're not just changing the engine RPM, you're changing the torque - with a constant-speed prop system, oil has to flow in/out of the prop hub to adjust the propeller pitch so there is some delayed reaction when moving the throttles as everything adjusts to the new settings.  This is something that X-Plane, and especially planes like the 340A and the JS32, model very well, which MSFS never quite got right.

[tomcat357]

Perfect explanation and thanks. I'll have get the dataref for the Max detent and assign that to the high value. I fly in the hud view must of the time so when I push the stick up I'll know where it's at. Xjoymap has been my xplane savior, without it I wouldn't even bother, with the different developers using different datarefs and all, it's my central depository for my commands. I will fly no plane with a mouse, click, or swipe, I don't drive my truck that way, I don't drive my boat that way and I will not PRETEND to fly a plane that way

[arb65912]

Cameron/Jim.

 

Quick question, when I use autostart , manual say not to touch any switches and buttons.

 

Does it include the Vuick views I have assigned to a numeric pad on the keyboard?

 

Thank you, cheers, AJ 

[Goran_M]

AJ

You can move around the cockpit and outside views, including using preset camera views.  Just don't interfere with the "Virtual Pilot" starting the engines.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Goran_M

[arb65912]

Thank you, Goran.

 

I think I figured that out but your response was instant, thank you very much.

 

There is another thing though related to the CLs.

 

IF I assign axes to CLs before start, the process stops at 8. Monitor Left engine start and stays there, nothing happens.

 

When I reload the plane, reset the Gizmo and run the Auto - Start process, all is well UNTIL I want to assign axis to CLs, then I got the assignment but main displays ( go off and there are many warning light appearing).

 

My solution for now will be NOT TO use CLs assignment so I can fly until it gets fixed. I already know from previous replies that there is a bug.

 

Thank you again for a great airplane.

 

I am sure that when few minor bugs are ironed out, we will all enjoy Saab to the max.

 

That Virtual Checklist with zooming is a revolution!! :-)

 

Cheers, AJ