Not Solved: It is also "noaa-weather" script (Python) but what else? I've lost patience.

[Mindyourstep]

Hello again,

For a long time already I am struggling again to get the Hotstart TBM9 to work. I start to feel hesitation to ask for help, because I had CTD-issues posted here before; they got temporary solved, and then occurred again.

I really hope I can get some support to dive in to this. This aircraft is my top most favorite aircraft, but... Every time, a few minutes after take-off, while still climbing, X-plane crashes to desktop.
- I tried different airports, all CTD's a couple of minutes after take-off, 
- Other payware aircraft I installed have no CTD's on same set-up and locations.

If possible, The only thing I would like to have running besides the TBM is World Traffic, noaweather (via PythonScript) and two FlyWithLua-scripts, called " Fps boost + auto LOD with shadows v2.lua" and " Soft Fps Clouds.lua". I have no other scripts running. If one of those three is the culprit, I'll remove them...too bad for World Traffic.

My.../Resources/plugins/-folder contains: AviTab, FlyWithLua, PluginAdmin, PythonInterface, PythonScripts, SAM, WorldTraffic, XPLM.framework, XPWidgets.framework and the Gizmo64.plugin.
(I have more plugins, but I replaced them into a backup-folder. So I really removed them, and not just turned them off in the PluginAdmin)

Here is the latest Log.txt from X-plane: Log.txt 

Here is Apple's crash report generated by mac os x: Apple Report for X-Plane 11.52r2 mac os x.txt

Here are my specs: mac osx 11.6 (Big Sur) iMac Retina 5K, 27", end2015, 4GHz Quad-Core i7, 32GB 1867 MHz DDR3, AMD Radeon R9 M395X 4096MB

Thank you so much again,

All the best,

Sander

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Mindyourstep

[Ben Russell]

Install a second copy of xplane with no extras. 

Install the tbm in the second copy of xplane. 

Test. 

[Mindyourstep]

6 hours ago, Ben Russell said:

Install a second copy of xplane with no extras. 

Install the tbm in the second copy of xplane. 

Test. 

Something inside me was speculating about (hoping for) the possiblity, that the accumulated knowledge here in this community  from the last couple of years about what happens to be compatible and what not with this fragile piece of script, together with all the rest that most of us install to have some kind of satisfying experience with this flight simulator, might result in some tips or advice that will lead to a quicker workaround then a one-and-a-half-hour double download and installation of X-plane, (which I find a kind of last resort activity) but maybe that is wishfull thinking. For now I wait a while for other responses. Maybe somebody will come up with an idea to adjust something based on what he or she might come up with while scrolling through the log.txt or something. (something that never gave me any clue, but I am not such a talent in this matter). I appreciate anything.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Mindyourstep

[JGregory]

 It is unlikely that this will get solved by you waiting for another user with a "magic" solution.  if you are unwilling to download the trial versions of XP, then at least remove ALL of your plugins, remove ALL of your custom scenery, and unplug all of your hardware from your current install and then test.  If the problem persists at that point post another log.txt file from that session. Diagnosing problems is a process, please follow the suggestions of those who are trying to help.

Edited October 16, 2021 by JGregory

[Ben Russell]

You can use your OS file manager to duplicate your xplane folder and then delete all your extra stuff out of the new copy. 

[Ben Russell]

It will be faster for all involved to start with a fresh copy of xplane and add only essentials and then extras one by one, than it will be to go through a cycle of guessing what plugin or script or config setting or scenery is needed to remove and have you report back it didn't work several times. 

 

 

[Goran_M]

11 hours ago, Mindyourstep said:

Something inside me was speculating about (hoping for) the possiblity, that the accumulated knowledge here in this community  from the last couple of years about what happens to be compatible and what not with this fragile piece of script, together with all the rest that most of us install to have some kind of satisfying experience with this flight simulator, might result in some tips or advice that will lead to a quicker workaround then a one-and-a-half-hour double download and installation of X-plane, (which I find a kind of last resort activity) but maybe that is wishfull thinking. For now I wait a while for other responses. Maybe somebody will come up with an idea to adjust something based on what he or she might come up with while scrolling through the log.txt or something. (something that never gave me any clue, but I am not such a talent in this matter). I appreciate anything.

There's no reason to be hesitant about asking for help.  You're our customer, and we will help as much as we can.  

Unfortunately, there are other developers who make other add ons, and sometimes, those other add ons, and the TBM (Not just the TBM, but any aircraft add on) will conflict.  This happened with the Saab and XEnviro.  We received many complaints from people telling us to fix the Saab and make it run well with XENviro.  Even when we went through everything, and determined that the fault lies with XEnviro, people still demanded we fix the Saab.  

Eventually, I was able to get a hold of Sergey (XEnviro developer), and after asking him to look into it, even he wasn't convinced.  I pleaded with him just to check, so he gathered some users together who also owned the Saab and ran some tests.  After less than a day of testing and debugging, he did indeed find a problem with XEnviro.  An update was issued soon after, and the incompatibility was resolved.  

If the fault lies with the TBM, we will be more than happy to look into it and fix it.  However, in many cases, the fault lies with other add ons.  Whether it's buggy code or another feature that the TBM already has (An example would be the terrain radar).

All we ask is that people provide log files and go through any steps we ask them to go through.  

Again, please don't be nervous/scared/hesitant about asking for help.  

Edited October 17, 2021 by Goran_M

[Mindyourstep]

To narrow this* down...I remember the last time I had this issue in a certain area in the world..."Australia Pro" was the problem; a "scenery enhancement pack" that replaces objects and texture on the ground. Now, I tried different airports, but all in the Netherlands. It might be, that when reaching a certain height X-plane starts to load some scenery in the neighbourhood resulting in a CTD. (A while ago I took the TBM from one Hawaiian island to another without crashing).

*) this line?:

TBM900 [except.c:117]: Caught SIGSEGV: segmentation fault (0x0)

A few months ago, with "Australian Pro": 

2021-04-02 22:14:30 TBM900[except.c:117]: Caught SIGSEGV: segmentation fault (0x8)

[edit: tested without WordTraffic 3, same CTD, same fault, ruled out, did not solve problem] 

[edit: tested (edited:) So first, I'll try the same flightplan again, but then with a Firefox-window in the background, because I run X-plane fullscreen with AMD, as suggested here: https://forums.x-pilot.com/forums/topic/20936-tbm900exceptc117-caught-sigsegv-segmentation-fault-0x0/?do=findComment&comment=166021 same CTD, same fault, ruled out, did not solve problem]

[edit; tested Then, second, what I am going to do is remove some custom scenery, custom local Dutch airports, to see if that helps. Probably one of those uses a library of objects that the TBM does not like. removed all custom scenery in surroundings, Aerosoft EHAM Airport Amsterdam, (*zExclusions), EFHK, EHLE, EKAH, EKCH, ESSA, Deurne EBAW, and two libraries 'Europe_RoadTraffic', 'European_vehicles_library_uwespeed', same CTD, same fault, ruled out, did not solve problem]

Of course I will not report anything of this messing about, to avoid further annoyance/irritation. If that does not work, I'll better start all over again with a fresh install. 

thanks

Edited October 17, 2021 by Mindyourstep

[RobW05]

I had a lot of crashes with the TBM initially, that was shortly after it came out and surely has evolved since then, but I discovered that for example a combination of the TBM, Shortfinal EDDM and World Traffic 3 made my sim crash reliably. But it also happened with other aircraft occasionally, so I suspected World Traffic to be the root cause.

I have gotten rid of World Traffic completely and nowadays using Traffic Global. I have not had much problems in the past 2 years, despite maybe a handful of crashes but really, that can happen with any aircraft. Most of the times it's a Windows issue, big Windows updates loading in the background are likely to cause this for example.

I've learned to tame down my enthusiasm to constantly improve my sim with the next best addon and that stabilized my sim experience a lot. My priority is now to enjoy excellent aircraft models like the TBM or also the Torquesim SR22 with just a few additional add ons like Traffic Global, Avitab and Orthoscenery. And I couldn't be happier with the outcome. (ok, I have to admit I can't wait for the new weather in xplane 12 )

[Mindyourstep]

3 hours ago, RobW05 said:

I had a lot of crashes with the TBM initially, that was shortly after it came out and surely has evolved since then, but I discovered that for example a combination of the TBM, Shortfinal EDDM and World Traffic 3 made my sim crash reliably. But it also happened with other aircraft occasionally, so I suspected World Traffic to be the root cause. (...)  )

Hi, mmm, removing WT3 did not make any difference for now, removing custom scenery in the surrounding area did not help either, so there is nothing left then to build X-plane up from scratch again and run it 'vanilla' with the TBM, and then slowly one-by-one adding the most wanted stuff. A hell of a job, that I will save later for a rainy day. Too bad. Now, if the TBM wasn't such a great plane I never would have gone in to this.

Now, since this happened in the Netherlands, I just want to try one more thing: Perform a flight from Santos Dumont RJ (SBRJ) to let's say that touristic beach town of Buzios (SSBZ) close to Rio de Janeiro with WT3 running...same conditions, real weather, Orthos and custom scenery scattered around the place. 

[edit: final conclusion: The trip from SBRJ to SSBZ went perfect, together with WT3 and all the custom scenery and libraries involved over there (just like Hawaii as mentioned before). So there must be something loaded in X-plane at that specific location in Holland that makes "de Loosdrechtse Plassen" the new Bermuda Triangle for this particular plane.]

(Sometimes I just feel to give up this ' hobby', because 75% of my time I am engineering this spaghetti and restarting again and again, waiting for screens to pop-up, testing, testing, fighting fps-loss or crashes...I just want to fly in the few hours I have for this to relax and enjoy.)

Edited October 17, 2021 by Mindyourstep

[Goran_M]

It could very easily be ortho scenery also causing problem.  

At least now you completed a full flight without issue, so that narrows it down, somewhat.

 

[Mindyourstep]

4 hours ago, Goran_M said:

It could very easily be ortho scenery also causing problem.  

At least now you completed a full flight without issue, so that narrows it down, somewhat.

 

I just tried it with the Ortho removed...same CTD while climbing from about 7,000 ft. and further...remarkable...the same pattern when climbing from EHAM Amsterdam, EHLE Lelystad, EHBK Maastricht....
Well, at least it is not the Orthoscenery that is corrupt....or maybe the y-overlays that I forgot to remove with them? Well, I'll try next week.

Life is full of suprises.

All the best.

[Mindyourstep]

Hello again,

Still struggling.

Which of these plugins modify Art controls?

Loaded: /Applications/X-Plane 11/Resources/plugins/PluginAdmin/mac.xpl (xpsdk.examples.pluginadmin).
Loaded: /Applications/X-Plane 11/Resources/plugins/AviTab/mac_x64/AviTab.xpl
Loaded: /Applications/X-Plane 11/Resources/plugins/FlyWithLua/64/mac.xpl *eruit gehaald*
Loaded: /Applications/X-Plane 11/Resources/plugins/Gizmo64.plugin/mac_x64/Gizmo64.plugin.xpl 
Loaded: /Applications/X-Plane 11/Resources/plugins/PythonInterface/64/mac.xpl
Loaded: /Applications/X-Plane 11/Resources/plugins/SAM/mac_x64/SAM.xpl 
Loaded: /Applications/X-Plane 11/Resources/plugins/WorldTraffic/mac.xpl (cjs.util.worldtraffic).
(...)

2021-10-24 10:14:50 TBM900[except.c:117]: Caught SIGSEGV: segmentation fault (0x0)
Backtrace is:
(...)
--=={This application has crashed because of the plugin: TBM900 by Hot Start}==--
(Art controls are modified.)

[Mindyourstep]

I removed all OrthoScenery incl. y-overlays, and I removed the whole FlyWithLua-map (from the list above "*eruit gehaald*)
Same crash at same height after take-off...but new message in Log.txt. This time no SIGSEGV / Art controls are modified but:

 

2021-10-24 10:55:49 TBM900[acf_mgr.c:333]: Error sending "in use" update to server: server responded with error 500 (Internal Server Error)
--=={This application has crashed because of the plugin: TBM900 by Hot Start}==--

[oldflyguy]

@MindyourstepI may have missed this but why don't you download a "light" copy of XP (just one scenery area) and install the TBM on that "untouched" copy to see what you get.  That's the first thing I would have done after just a small taste of the troubles you are having.

[Mindyourstep]

20 minutes ago, oldflyguy said:

@MindyourstepI may have missed this but why don't you download a "light" copy of XP (just one scenery area) and install the TBM on that "untouched" copy to see what you get.  That's the first thing I would have done after just a small taste of the troubles you are having.

Thanks, I was just going in to that, just before something happened, so that I think I have found it:

So, I had a 100% chance for a CTD at exactly 7,900 feet, while climbing from EHAM runway 22 southbound.

I removed all plugins and heavy scenery and I finally could fly further without a crash to desktop:

Log_vanilla_enough_for_TBM.txt

Then I re-installed Pyhtoninterface and Pythonscripts where I only have the noaa-weather-plugin.
With Python the crashes returned at exactly 7,900 feet:

Log.txt

Another SIGSEGV: segmentation fault

So that means I cannot use the noaa-weather-plugin together with the TBM9? And why only in the Netherlands and at that height? Strange.
Well I'll keep testing. 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Mindyourstep

[oldflyguy]

30 minutes ago, Mindyourstep said:

So that means I cannot use the noaa-weather-plugin together with the TBM9?

I only use NOAA with XP10 (obvious reasons).  It's ASXP for XP11.  I would still download that virgin copy (I keep one on hand at all times) and try the TBM with Python (only) on that one.  This path is absolutely the best way to troubleshoot in my (totally) non-expert opinion.

[Mindyourstep]

11 minutes ago, oldflyguy said:

I only use NOAA with XP10 (obvious reasons).  It's ASXP for XP11.  I would still download that virgin copy (I keep one on hand at all times) and try the TBM with Python (only) on that one.  This path is absolutely the best way to troubleshoot in my (totally) non-expert opinion.

Yep, thanks, I'll do that. Too bad I am on a mac, so no ASXP for me. 
For now, I reinstalled the whole nice-to-have ortho-scenery and all the plugins I had...no problems at all, as long as I don't install that noaa-weather-script.
 

All the best,

[Mindyourstep]

Really? After twelve flights? Another CTD? Flying "Vanilla" without noaa. 

 

"...

2021-11-09 19:35:43 TBM900[except.c:120]: Caught SIGABORT: abort (0x7fff2035c92e)
Backtrace is:
2   libsystem_platform.dylib            0x00007fff203d0d7d _sigtramp + 29
3   ???                                 0x3fb999999999999a 0x0 + 4591870180066957722
4   libsystem_c.dylib                   0x00007fff202e0406 abort + 125
5   libsystem_c.dylib                   0x00007fff202df7d8 err + 0
6   systems.xpl                         0x00000000e01c3833 cairo_scaled_font_destroy.cold.5 + 35
7   systems.xpl                         0x00000000dfc5ad8a cairo_scaled_font_destroy + 346
8   systems.xpl                         0x00000000dfc27ebc _cairo_gstate_fini + 44
9   systems.xpl                         0x00000000dfc282a4 _cairo_gstate_restore + 36
10  systems.xpl                         0x00000000dfc753d7 cairo_restore + 23
11  systems.xpl                         0x00000000df621aa0 draw_perf_ind + 3600
12  systems.xpl                         0x00000000df6143e9 eicas_rev_render + 201
13  systems.xpl                         0x00000000df8330d3 worker + 1379
14  systems.xpl                         0x00000000df83b105 _lacf_thread_start_routine + 37
15  libsystem_pthread.dylib             0x00007fff2038b8fc _pthread_start + 224
16  libsystem_pthread.dylib             0x00007fff20387443 thread_start + 15
0:24:11.829 E/SYS: THREAD FATAL ASSERT: rel_assert Error! Possibly an out of range vector! Attach the debugger and see who called this!
0:24:11.829 E/SYS: THREAD FATAL ASSERT: !THREAD_is_inited() || THREAD_is_main_thread()
0:24:11.829 E/SYS: THREAD FATAL ASSERT: XPDestroyGuiPluginWindow
0:24:11.829 E/SYS: THREAD FATAL ASSERT: Please report this to Laminar Research.
0:24:11.829 E/SYS: THREAD FATAL ASSERT: /jenkins/design-triggered/source_code/engine/plugins/glue/XPCallbacks.cpp:1786

.."
 

I'm lost

Edited November 9, 2021 by Mindyourstep

[Goran_M]

Please attach the entire log.txt file.  

[Mindyourstep]

The log.txt is already overwritten by a new session. Anyway, I gave up. This constant struggle with X-plane crashes and constant investigation and tweaking is too much work and not fun. I'll change focus to other activities.

All the best. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Mindyourstep

[Goran_M]

It's up to you.  12 flights without a crash is pretty good, in my opinion.  Something must have been added or done to trigger this latest crash.

However, please know that these crashes represent less than 1% of our customer base.  In the vast majority of those cases, a crash is due to a plug in that doesn't play nice with the TBM (due to possibly having some kind of feature the TBM already has) or it is just poorly coded.  Of course, we don't expect every plugin author to purchase a copy of the TBM, and we shouldn't be expected to purchase every single plugin that is available.  The only thing we can offer is a series of steps to minimize or eliminate the problem.  This is one of the reasons for the log.txt file.  

If you feel like looking into this again, feel free to make another post and we can investigate further.