Update

[Test1234]

Hi, could the IXEG team give an Update as to whats going on right now? Are New Features still being Developed? Seems to me like IXEG is dead, no major Update since release. the FMC has gotten barely any attention, VNAV is bad(Yes i know that its also bad on the real 73 but it doesnt loose its mind when entering a new alt cstr) and the PROG page is still not fully done, no HOLD or ABEAM legs. Looking at the "Things that are not going to be in V1" list theres not been much done considering this plane has been out more than 1 Year. Im sure the community would appreciate a Update from IXEG. Thanks alot.

[crisk73]

Many other threads already have the answer to those questions, please read them. Ixeg is not dead, devs will get back to work on the plane when they will have time, they've already acknowledged there's a lot of stuff to take care of, prioritizing the FMC of course.

[okernel]

Hi Test1234.  

If you are talking about transparency, and it sounds like you are, I am not sure how IXEG could be more transparent.  They acknowledge problems that they are working on and answer most enquiries very quickly in the forums.

If you are talking about the slow progress, then you need to understand that this aircraft is a VERY complex machine in terms of coding.  They seem determined to get it 100% right, and for that I am grateful.  I can wait.  Just check out the comments that confirm that the IXEG B737 is a "work of art", despite the current status of low priority work such as cabin textures for example.

This is by far my best XP aircraft even though it has developmental requirements.  But, it will get even better.  Patience.

Edited May 26, 2018 by okernel

[AndersenBali]

Hi Test1234.  
If you are talking about transparency, and it sounds like you are, I am not sure how IXEG could be more transparent.  They acknowledge problems that they are working on and answer most enquiries very quickly in the forums.
If you are talking about the slow progress, then you need to understand that this aircraft is a VERY complex machine in terms of coding.  They seem determined to get it 100% right, and for that I am grateful.  I can wait.  Just check out the comments that confirm that the IXEG B737 is a "work of art", despite the current status of low priority work such as cabin textures for example.
This is by far my best XP aircraft even though it has developmental requirements.  But, it will get even better.  Patience.

Agree... I have always appreciated the transparency, honesty and very clear communication from the ixeg team..
I also agree that there is still room for improvement on the B733 but as long the team keep their comminication as they do, it's more doable to remain patient..

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk

[novato X11]

1 hour ago, AndersenBali said:

Agree... I have always appreciated the transparency, honesty and very clear communication from the ixeg team..
I also agree that there is still room for improvement on the B733 but as long the team keep their comminication as they do, it's more doable to remain patient..

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk
 

I consider one of the best aircraft of the XP-11, some people confuse the Boeing of the PMDG with the Boeing of the IXEG, are different aircraft a more modern and an older one the realism of Flight of IXEG B737-300 in XP-11 does not compare with other simulators. I love PMDG but I do not go back to P3D because it only simulates systems, Flight realism is only on XP-11 this is a proven fact, and the IXEG B737classic considers one of the best aircraft in the Boeing line for XP-11.

[ArborVitae]

Guys please, we can see how fast is ff a320 is developping and in system wise it seems like only 1 person is working on it.

[birdy.dma]

Quote

 

Again and again.

A recent Morten post:

The aircraft will get further updates, we apologize for the delay which is mainly a result of us doing this a as a hobby besides our "real" jobs.

A recent Tkyler post:

I'm just now reading this and as a IXEG member and mod here, I have permissions to respond and will.  Especially since I'm the one who programmed much of the features Shobhan is lamenting and also the one who has not worked on it in some time.

First off, Shobhan complaints seem to be 100% focused on the FMC and indeed that is plausible enough as it it centric to airline operations and a big appeal for airliner sim enthusiasts.  But there are also other aspects of a airliner simulation to consider that others find equally important as well and worthy of value.  Other products, while having a more complete FMC implementation, might not have as good of visual or aural fidelity....and who's to say that "immersion of FMC accuracy" is more important to simmer A or B than "immersion of visual accuracy", or "immersion of aural accuracy", i.e. I myself enjoy the cockpit immersion, visual and aural more than the FMC usage.  I know this is not the case for you here Shobahn.

In the end, we want it all to be accurate no doubt.    A thorough FMC with a cartoony or disproportionate 3D looking airplane is very disappointing to myself......BUT....I also know the FMC is the centerpiece for most customers and worth the discussion.

At the end of the day, Shobahn is entitled to his opinion and I fully respect that....what I don't respect is his calling us lazy.  Shobahn doesn't know me, Jan, Nils and Morten from Adam. He doesn't know my wife, my daughters, their trials and tribulations, my brothers, parents and all the things in our worlds that will be important and relevant long after X-Plane is gone from our worlds and sometimes there are things that need tending to at critical times in life that have no other options.  Its just the way things can be in life. 

Now I certainly would not call Shobahn lazy because I don't know him, nor will I call him ignorant....I will say he's made some ignorant statements here in this forum though.   IXEG is made up of very very good and talented individuals....so good that each is in demand and always candidates for promotions in their own professions and they honor those committments they made there before IXEG.  

I also realize there are committments to customers, especially when money changes hands, and I will continue to honor those over time as best I can.  The whole team have a long history of longevity and committment to X-Plane.  I myself am disappointed at the timing of updates too, but things are what they are for the moment.  The alternative was to what?   say, "well we won't make the 733 100% accurate for some years and some folks will be upset one day....so lets just not do it at all?"    I do not subscribe to that strategy as i've learned that any good thing takes time and you have to start somewhere and always keep moving.... and listening to folks like Shobahn voice their criticisms and opinions along the way come with the territory.  If things don't move at a pace to satisfy all, then thats just the way it is.  

In the meantime, Shobahns comments are very much noted and understood... I even agree with about 85% of them.... and myself, being the prime author behind the FMC....will return to working on it and improving it further quite soon enough.  My situation is well documented elsewhere.  If nothing else, IXEG have demonstrated tenacity and committment to this project over many years and it will not languish as is.  If there's one group I trust to keep moving and improving the 733, even in the midst of the occasional update draughts, its Jan, Nils and Morten!

-tkyler

[Cameron]

33 minutes ago, ArborVitae said:

Guys please, we can see how fast is ff a320 is developping and in system wise it seems like only 1 person is working on it.

There's a lot more going on behind the scenes with that product and where code came from than you think.

[ArborVitae]

16 hours ago, birdy.dma said:

Again and again.

A recent Morten post:

The aircraft will get further updates, we apologize for the delay which is mainly a result of us doing this a as a hobby besides our "real" jobs.

A recent Tkyler post:

I'm just now reading this and as a IXEG member and mod here, I have permissions to respond and will.  Especially since I'm the one who programmed much of the features Shobhan is lamenting and also the one who has not worked on it in some time.

First off, Shobhan complaints seem to be 100% focused on the FMC and indeed that is plausible enough as it it centric to airline operations and a big appeal for airliner sim enthusiasts.  But there are also other aspects of a airliner simulation to consider that others find equally important as well and worthy of value.  Other products, while having a more complete FMC implementation, might not have as good of visual or aural fidelity....and who's to say that "immersion of FMC accuracy" is more important to simmer A or B than "immersion of visual accuracy", or "immersion of aural accuracy", i.e. I myself enjoy the cockpit immersion, visual and aural more than the FMC usage.  I know this is not the case for you here Shobahn.

In the end, we want it all to be accurate no doubt.    A thorough FMC with a cartoony or disproportionate 3D looking airplane is very disappointing to myself......BUT....I also know the FMC is the centerpiece for most customers and worth the discussion.

At the end of the day, Shobahn is entitled to his opinion and I fully respect that....what I don't respect is his calling us lazy.  Shobahn doesn't know me, Jan, Nils and Morten from Adam. He doesn't know my wife, my daughters, their trials and tribulations, my brothers, parents and all the things in our worlds that will be important and relevant long after X-Plane is gone from our worlds and sometimes there are things that need tending to at critical times in life that have no other options.  Its just the way things can be in life. 

Now I certainly would not call Shobahn lazy because I don't know him, nor will I call him ignorant....I will say he's made some ignorant statements here in this forum though.   IXEG is made up of very very good and talented individuals....so good that each is in demand and always candidates for promotions in their own professions and they honor those committments they made there before IXEG.  

I also realize there are committments to customers, especially when money changes hands, and I will continue to honor those over time as best I can.  The whole team have a long history of longevity and committment to X-Plane.  I myself am disappointed at the timing of updates too, but things are what they are for the moment.  The alternative was to what?   say, "well we won't make the 733 100% accurate for some years and some folks will be upset one day....so lets just not do it at all?"    I do not subscribe to that strategy as i've learned that any good thing takes time and you have to start somewhere and always keep moving.... and listening to folks like Shobahn voice their criticisms and opinions along the way come with the territory.  If things don't move at a pace to satisfy all, then thats just the way it is.  

In the meantime, Shobahns comments are very much noted and understood... I even agree with about 85% of them.... and myself, being the prime author behind the FMC....will return to working on it and improving it further quite soon enough.  My situation is well documented elsewhere.  If nothing else, IXEG have demonstrated tenacity and committment to this project over many years and it will not languish as is.  If there's one group I trust to keep moving and improving the 733, even in the midst of the occasional update draughts, its Jan, Nils and Morten!

-tkyler

when did thyler wrote that?

[Litjan]

9 minutes ago, ArborVitae said:

when did thyler wrote that?

Friday.

Jan

 

[ArborVitae]

8 minutes ago, Litjan said:

Friday.

Jan

 

i didn't see that one since i usually check general discussion only. you guys need to understand all this frustration is because we love this plane and we want this plane complete. i love how immersive it is as cocpit and flight dynamics it is. but fmc lacks too many stuff atm

[tkyler]

Hey guys, I don't mind repeating this in a few forums, probably better to have it in more locations.  The quick and dirty is that we took @ 6 years to get the IXEG to minimum release....and in the last year before release, things were difficult and we were unsure when we would make it because the team members still have to pay bills and do their other jobs.  As it stands, I got involved in a space startup about 9 months before the 733 came out.   I managed to 'stall' my participation in that startup for about 9 months and worked solely on the 733 with no income, living on savings during that time to get the 733 out.  Wtihin 3 months of the release of the 733, the startup was in full swing and I was the prime designer for our deliverables to NASA.  There was a lot riding on the line, many big groups involved, NASA, ESA, Airbus, Boeing, etc....and I could not back out.  Because this project was deadline based, and i was already behind, I've been working at it solid for about 2 years to meet the deliverables...which I recently completed just last week by handing over our hardware to head to the ISS on SpX-15 here in about a month....which is why you've seen two whole posts in as many days from me as I can finally take a breath.

My participation in this startup is relegated to this "deliverable phase", by my own volition as my passion is flight simulations.....and while I have loose ends to pick up....documentations and such, I am getting poised to get back into XP dev work.  I will say, that the release of XP11 also contriubted to some of the 'wait and see'.   

It should not be hard to tell from the work we put into the 733 that we are passionate about the small details and its painfully clear to the team the features that are missings...and the good news is that we can't let that go, even if it SEEMS that way due to some lack of activity.  I know Morten, Nils and I have been in XP Dev work for oh....maybe 14+ years?   

We very much appreciate you guys cheering for us and your support and while I apologize for this pause,  you can be sure that the 733 will surge ahead in features.

-tkyler

[Scatena]

Your aircraft is cool and you guys are very nice and attentive.

But I think that when I am paying a good amount on a product, I expect a finished thing and, you guys saying "this is a hobby for us" is not too much encouraging.

Honestly if I knew it before, I would thinked 10 times more before buying it.

I just think that this needs to be more clear. I'm knowing this after purchasing it.

But I wish you the best of luck on improving this plane, as it is very promising

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Scatena

[avantime]

Thanks tkyler for your comment. I understand the difficulties your team faced in developing the IXEG before release and I'm glad that at least we get to fly the 737 in somewhat decent form. However I believe that Shobhan's complaints are a strong indicator of what the customers are now feeling right now with regards to the current state of the 737, with loads of promises but no substantial updates, no future update timeline and no light at the end of the tunnel. Some customers have waited for 2 years for a finished product and are losing faith in the IXEG team.

By looking at previous updates from the past year it seems as if the IXEG team is barely keeping up with Laminar's XP11 updates, and that bodes ill for the future of the addon as the FMS, as well as visual updates and other stuff like FO instruments, desperately require bug fixes. And I'm concerned enough that I'm satisfied with ninja fixes, if you can't spare the effort for substantial systems programming. This is because I've seen this downward trajectory before from other addon developers, as well as many early access games in Steam. You have developers release buggy alpha software with unfinished features and bugs, they get a big rush of money from customers, and then they lose motivation and abandon the project once sales have slowed to a trickle. That was what happened with Airsimmer, and is happening right now with Black Box Simulations. Coming from FSX/P3D it seems that this method of addon development is common in X-Plane, because AFAIK the PMDG DC-6 for XP10 is the only complex aircraft addon that is fully feature complete on release day, without the need for any substantial updates. I'm sure you guys will keep saying that updates are coming and that the 737 will be finished in due time, but my confidence in your statements is falling every single day without a substantial patch that isn't just about fixing what Laminar broke. At the current rate of updates I do not believe that the 737 will be finished (if it ever does) before XP12 releases, in around 2-3 years time.

In a way I think that IXEG's decision not to charge for the XP11 upgrade probably compounded problems, as I think the team needed more money to finish the project. Maybe if IXEG went the same route as LES it might have gone a bit better, but then the Saab was pretty much complete by the time XP11 came along. Also IXEG should've planned the -400/500 extensions as a way to make a bit more money to keep development going, as bug fixing gets a bit better when combined with developing something that has a monetary payoff. I paid $140 for the FSLabs A320 for P3D and I just brought the Aerowinx 747 PSX for $450 (w/ shipping & tax) so I'm happy to pay up to $150 for a fully feature complete 737-300 and $40 for the -400/-500 extension. But right now I simply can't recommend this addon to others even at $75, because I do not see this addon will ever be fully patched and feature complete in a timely manner.

Now with regards to the ninja fixes, for the FMS I'm somewhat OK with inaccuracies, what I don't want to see is really weird numbers like estimated time to ToD as 2500 UTC, or estimated fuel figures that are completely out of whack. And the buggy vertical deviation indicator which becomes hugely distracting during descent. All I want are numbers and indicators that look somewhat reasonable, and a PROG page that doesn't crash the sim. I would love to see stuff like fully working VNAV, holding and enroute winds, but you guys really need to fix the bugs first.

Even if you guys can't fix the FMS programming, at least fix the visual model. Fix the cabin lighting bleeding through the cockpit door (just like the FlyJSim 732) and have the cabin doors open. I know you guys want to make a new cabin model but if you guys can't do it in 3-6 months then forget about it, just fix the lighting and make the doors open.

And finally, please get in touch with XEnviro and fix the constant crashes. XEnviro is another $70 addon that I'm about to throw into the bin because the recent 1.08 rewrite introduced so many more bugs it's becoming unusable, especially with addons that uses Gizmo like the IXEG and the LES Saab.

[Cameron]

On 5/28/2018 at 7:47 AM, Scatena said:

Honestly if I knew it before, I would thinked 10 times more before buying it.

Well, it may disappoint you to figure out that about 95% of the market developers are hobbyists. We don't really consider us that so much as being in a position where one of our core team members was pulled away from this project for a work obligation temporarily, and as he stated, is about to come back full time.

On 5/28/2018 at 7:48 AM, avantime said:

However I believe that Shobhan's complaints are a strong indicator of what the customers are now feeling right now with regards to the current state of the 737, with loads of promises but no substantial updates, no future update timeline and no light at the end of the tunnel. Some customers have waited for 2 years for a finished product and are losing faith in the IXEG team.

I would say it's a strong indicator of what some of the customers are feeling, but not majority. Still to this day we are receiving a very large number of compliments on this product. It's very rare a complaint comes in. That said, for those that have "waited 2 years for a finished product and are losing faith in the IXEG team," I guess they're due to be surprised when they learn the team is still very much committed with more updates coming forward.

On 5/28/2018 at 7:48 AM, avantime said:

By looking at previous updates from the past year it seems as if the IXEG team is barely keeping up with Laminar's XP11 updates, and that bodes ill for the future of the addon as the FMS, as well as visual updates and other stuff like FO instruments, desperately require bug fixes.

Almost every update has been focused on stabilizing bugs. Literally hundreds of bugs have been fixed in a two year period. That was priority number one. If you flew the release day aircraft vs the current one it would be a night and day experience. Just because everything is not visual does not mean that each incremental update did not have a lot of work that went into it.

But, because you have also said that the team is barely keeping up, I must refer you back to what @tkyler said:

"My participation in this startup is relegated to this "deliverable phase", by my own volition as my passion is flight simulations.....and while I have loose ends to pick up....documentations and such, I am getting poised to get back into XP dev work.  I will say, that the release of XP11 also contriubted to some of the 'wait and see'."

In other words, more time is to be dedicated back to X-Plane after work was made an obligation long before IXEG was released.

On 5/28/2018 at 7:48 AM, avantime said:

This is because I've seen this downward trajectory before from other addon developers, as well as many early access games in Steam. You have developers release buggy alpha software with unfinished features and bugs, they get a big rush of money from customers, and then they lose motivation and abandon the project once sales have slowed to a trickle.

But, you're unfairly projecting experiences from other companies on to a group of guys who has stuck with X-Plane development since 1999. That's 19 years (minus Jan). And, @tkyler has had his MU-2 on the market since 2008, which to this day is still updated, supported, and has had numerous free updates along the way.

On 5/28/2018 at 7:48 AM, avantime said:

In a way I think that IXEG's decision not to charge for the XP11 upgrade probably compounded problems, as I think the team needed more money to finish the project.

You have no idea the financials of the product. At this point you're purely speculating. It would be safe to say that the entire team disagrees with you, and the customers deserved a free update. Our commitment to the price sold was for a solid and complete product. Until that time is reached, no forced payments for updates are going to happen.

Again, I must provide you the real reasoning for delay by quoting @tkyler:

As it stands, I got involved in a space startup about 9 months before the 733 came out.   I managed to 'stall' my participation in that startup for about 9 months and worked solely on the 733 with no income, living on savings during that time to get the 733 out.  Wtihin 3 months of the release of the 733, the startup was in full swing and I was the prime designer for our deliverables to NASA.  There was a lot riding on the line, many big groups involved, NASA, ESA, Airbus, Boeing, etc....and I could not back out.  Because this project was deadline based, and i was already behind, I've been working at it solid for about 2 years to meet the deliverables...which I recently completed just last week by handing over our hardware to head to the ISS on SpX-15 here in about a month....which is why you've seen two whole posts in as many days from me as I can finally take a breath.

On 5/28/2018 at 7:48 AM, avantime said:

Maybe if IXEG went the same route as LES it might have gone a bit better

What does this even mean? LES had a free update to 11 as well. There was no charge. In other words, IXEG did the same thing as LES.

On 5/28/2018 at 7:48 AM, avantime said:

And finally, please get in touch with XEnviro and fix the constant crashes. XEnviro is another $70 addon that I'm about to throw into the bin because the recent 1.08 rewrite introduced so many more bugs it's becoming unusable, especially with addons that uses Gizmo like the IXEG and the LES Saab.

We got in touch with xEnviro months ago. Ball is in their court, but the problem does not lie on our end. They're aware of the situation, and the developer was investigating. He has publicly acknowledged it, but I have zero clue on when he'll have a fix.

 

All in all, this is a lot of huff and puff for nothing. And by nothing, I mean @tkyler took the time to reply and give real reasons for delays, and you basically dismissed every word he said to still write a response as if he had never said it. It's okay to still be disappointed, but to sit here and dictate to the world that the project will not go forward and you have mathematical calculations in your mind that put 2-3 years still at an abysmal point for the project is...silly.

Relax. Fly. Enjoy. The team is still here, alive and well.

That's the end of this thread. Happy flying!