Props windmilling

[rondon9897]

HI chaps,

Sorry to open another post but I just wanted to know if this is a bug or I'm doing something wrong but when the engines are off, all systems off and aircraft first loaded, the propellers windmill furiously. So much so, in fact, that it looks like they're running. Is there something that I can do to stop this?

 

In addition, I can't start the engines unless I use the autostart feature, even though I am following your procedures to the letter. Should I reinstall or am I doing something wrong?

Cheers,

John

Edited April 16, 2015 by rondon9897

[albvt]

Strong winds maybe...?

[rondon9897]

Yes but the real aircraft has a propeller brake to stop it moving when stationary. Otherwise, the prop blades would whack boarding passengers on the head!

[pict]

Actually on the real airplane the propeller brake is optional and only found on the #2 engine if installed - the prop for engine #1 is often tied with a strap to the rail of the airstair to prevent windmilling. The #2 engine is left free and will windmill in windy conditions.

-Xavier

[rondon9897]

Both engines windmilling like they're running in a 7kt wind? That's a bug, I'm afraid:

 

[Cameron]

Both engines windmilling like they're running in a 7kt wind? That's a bug, I'm afraid

 

No, it's not. And, to top that off, I hate to be blunt, but nothing will be changing here (aside from what's coming in the 1.2 update). 

[rondon9897]

I'm sorry but it is undeniably an inaccurate simulation, the props would never, ever spin like that with the engines off. But fair enough, I shall just not look at the exterior model.

[Cameron]

I'm sorry but it is undeniably an inaccurate simulation, the props would never, ever spin like that with the engines off.

 

I'm not going to debate prop windmilling on the ground with you and how you feel it should look. You can certainly take that up with the folks at Laminar if you like.

 

But fair enough, I shall just not look at the exterior model.

 

Okay!

[breadwild]

No, it's not. And, to top that off, I hate to be blunt, but nothing will be changing here (aside from what's coming in the 1.2 update).

Cameron, why do you have be so mean? Lighten up. Be nice. You need to take a dose of your own medicine: "You don't have to take criticism personally, but you do have to take it seriously."

[Cameron]

Cameron, why do you have be so mean?

 

Sorry if you feel that way, but I'm not being "mean". That's your interpretation, though incorrect. What part of "hate to be blunt" don't you understand? Rather, I'm being to the point. It's an argument that's going to quite literally go nowhere.

 

I don't view his comments as criticism (certainly not personally, at least!), though that was a valiant effort to turn something on me that was never an issue in the first place. Perhaps you should read the words I wrote literally, for what they were, and try to leave emotion out of it. There's nothing to lighten up about. We're just not going to get into a rally about something that has been this way for ages, and is nothing but X-Plane's own simulation. 

[Cameron]

In addition, I can't start the engines unless I use the autostart feature, even though I am following your procedures to the letter. Should I reinstall or am I doing something wrong?

I did miss this part. Sorry about that...

What issue are you having on the startup procedure? Perhaps there's a step being missed, but I can't imagine a new install would help if other things are working as they should for the moment. Though tedious, if you write down every step you take to attempt to start your engines and list them here, I'm sure we can assist in getting that working for you.

You can also double check procedure by way of this video:

[breadwild]

Sorry if you feel that way, but I'm not being "mean". That's your interpretation, though incorrect. What part of "hate to be blunt" don't you understand? Rather, I'm being to the point. It's an argument that's going to quite literally go nowhere.

 

I don't view his comments as criticism (certainly not personally, at least!), though that was a valiant effort to turn something on me that was never an issue in the first place. Perhaps you should read the words I wrote literally, for what they were, and try to leave emotion out of it. There's nothing to lighten up about. We're just not going to get into a rally about something that has been this way for ages, and is nothing but X-Plane's own simulation. 

 

Cameron,

 

Thanks for replying and sorry this is happening in a thread about props windmilling (mine don't).

 

Honestly, I'm a bit  like you, I say what I think. However, as my wife has pointed out to me thousands of times over the past 37 years: it's not what I say it how I say it. She reports that I'm am getting nicer, which is cheaper than marriage counseling.

 

For my day job I own what is primarily a web development/application company and deal with users all day long. Some drive us crazy, some we love. So, I understand the temptation to be blunt. But ultimately they are customer and help me pay the rent.

 

BTW, I will say it again, I think you have a great airplane here and I love to fly it. And looking forward to the update with the Garmin, I just hope my old Mac will be able to keep up with it.

 

Best,

Brad

[Cameron]

it's not what I say it how I say it.

I prefaced the coming bluntness for a reason. "I hate" was purposefully there. As interested as this individual is in the Saab, I'm sure he'll come across many more posts by myself, Jim, and Goran.

 

Some drive us crazy, some we love.

Customers driving one crazy? Never.

 

BTW, I will say it again, I think you have a great airplane here and I love to fly it.

Thanks, though not without saying Jim and Goran are both invaluable parts to the creation of this awesome product!

[rondon9897]

Can I just say as a clarification that I admire you sim builders enormously and sim aircraft like this have given me a lot of pleasure for many years. I wasn't criticising anyone or telling you off, just pointing something out and seeing if there were any possible resolutions. It would seem that as another poster stated, if you start with a default aircraft first, like the Baron, and then transfer to the saab, the props don't windmill, so that's fine. This is a great aircraft and I did my first proper flight in it yesterday from Aberdeen to Sumburgh and thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

Thanks for the video too Cameron. I was using my dad's RW Saab manuals and it would seem that in the sim, the COND levers have to be moved to START before using the engine selector, and in my dad's manuals i'm pretty sure it's the other way around. It's starting fine now.

 

Cheers for the help,

John

[JGregory]

I was using my dad's RW Saab manuals and it would seem that in the sim, the COND levers have to be moved to START before using the engine selector, and in my dad's manuals i'm pretty sure it's the other way around.

I'd be interested in knowing more about this.  Can you explain what you mean by "engine selector" ?    There is a procedure called "dry motoring" where you leave the condition levers at cutoff and then advance them to start, which we did simulate... is that what you are referring to? 

 

All of the development we did was based on exhaustive research, real world manuals, and consultation with real world Saab 340 pilots.  I'm fairly sure we did not make an error in the starting procedure.  If there are "alternative" procedures we are unaware of, I would like to know about them. Is there any chance you can get us a copy of the manual that you are referring to?  

[rondon9897]

Sorry Jim I meant the starter switch i.e. the switch one uses to select which engine to start. They are paper manuals so I'll take a photo of the page and stick it up here if you'd like or send it to you, but for simplicity the procedure in that manual is Battery voltage check, BUS TIE CONN check, hold starter switch to the right, check Ng at about 20% & ITT at 170 degrees or less then move COND lever to start. However I'm perfectly happy if that's not the way to do it in the sim

Edited April 18, 2015 by rondon9897

[JGregory]

However I'm perfectly happy if that's not the way to do it in the sim

Our startup procedure is not just "the way to do it in the sim", it is actually a correct start procedure as per the manual from Saab themselves and as per our Saab consultants.  What you are describing is "dry motoring" of the engine, which is a different start procedure.  Perhaps the procedure in your manual was specific to that airline at the time your dad was flying for them.   Dry motoring is part of our simulation, if you choose to do that type of engine start.

 

Please see the following excerpt from the Saab Manual...

 

SAAB 340A AOM Rev 40 - Complete 868.pdf

Edited April 18, 2015 by JGregory

[rondon9897]

Excellent thank you for that Jim so in that case the 'dry motoring' version of engine starting must have been SOP at my dad's company I think I will actually do it the Saab way from now on, but will try the dry motoring way again tomorrow just out of interest. thanks for the help.

John

[dipperdolphin]

Is there anyway to stop the blades? I use self loading cargo, and the windmilling props mean that it doesn't detect stopped engines. They take a good few minutes to stop.

Thanks!

[Goran_M]

The only way we know of is to load a default aircraft with the check box left unchecked for "Start with engines running".