Saitek panels/gear does not work with Saab 340

[yvog]

I just bought the Saab 340 and didn't realize Saitek equipment is not compatible with this plane.

What a waste of money! I hate using the mouse to adjust NAV, COM etc.

Also the quadrant that comes with the Saitek Yoke only controls the Power. Cannot allocate the other quadrant levers to the CON lever,

 

All other planes I bought from Carenado and FJSim work perfect with my Saitek gear.

 

I have just wasted money on an extremely complicated plane to fly.

On the one hand you want your plane to be as realistic as possible (and you really did a great job there) but then you expect us to use a mouse for everything except the yoke?????

 

I wish I could get my money back

[Goran_M]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and strongly assume you didn't really think this was a waste of money.  Even though you mentioned it twice.  

We spent an extraordinary amount of time in making this add on as realistic as possible, and we had to overcome quite a few obstacles in the process.  The throttle quadrant alone took about 3 months to code with the condition levers taking up much of that time.

Realism is something the x-plane community has been screaming for over the last few years and we worked very hard to deliver.

So, PLEASE, I am politely asking you to choose your words carefully.

 

Before dismissing this product as a waste of money, you could simply start by asking for help in the appropriate forums and we can take it from there.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Goran_M

[Ben Russell]

I just bought the Saab 340 and didn't realize Saitek equipment is not compatible with this plane.

What a waste of money! I hate using the mouse to adjust NAV, COM etc.

Also the quadrant that comes with the Saitek Yoke only controls the Power. Cannot allocate the other quadrant levers to the CON lever,

 

All other planes I bought from Carenado and FJSim work perfect with my Saitek gear.

 

I have just wasted money on an extremely complicated plane to fly.

On the one hand you want your plane to be as realistic as possible (and you really did a great job there) but then you expect us to use a mouse for everything except the yoke?????

 

I wish I could get my money back

 

Are you using the Saitek plugin published by "sparker" with your Carenado and FJS products?

[yvog]

@ Goran.

Sorry if I hurt your pride.

The plane you designed is an engineering masterpiece. I have never seen anything so detailed. I had read a review about it and decided to buy it.

N

But, remember, most of us wanna fly the thing, not just marvel at all the intricate details. Flying is still the no 1 priority, and for me that includes preparing flight plans and then complete the flight.

Unfortunately, the flying experience is not there when I cannot even adjust NAV or COM settings easily and quickly, or operate the power and prop levers with my quadrants

I fly FlyJSim's Dash 8, I have two Beechcraft's from Carenado, and I also bought a Pilatus (STMA)

ALL these pay ware planes implement at least the Saitek Radio panel and the Multipanel. They also implement most of the Switch panel

I can adjust Flaps, trim, up down gear, all autopilot functions, I can control power, prop and mixture from the quadrant.

But not on this SAAB. 340.

Do you really expect me to fly this plane with the mouse?? That is such a let down after all the energy you spent on making this so detailed

[yvog]

@Ben

I use the XSaitekpanels plug in available on x-plane.org. As I mentioned in my reply to Goran, the plugin works almost for 90 % on all planes.

The Radio panel and the Multi panel works on all of them completely. The Switch Panel works 95% on the Dash 8 (the panel light switch doesn't work)

On the Carenado Beechcraft B58, I got some help from someone with a LUA plugin to make most of the switches to work.

All these pay ware planes allow you to set the yoke, rudder, quadrants in X-plane's "Joystick & Equipment" menu.

[Goran_M]

My pride isn't hurt at all.  To be honest with you, you're the first person to say this aircraft is too hard to fly.  I just think that saying it's a waste of money is quite a stretch.  If you want to know what a waste of money is, buy something from Abacus.  

To address your issues...

I can operate the Power levers with my throttle quadrant and I can use a separate axis with the Condition Levers once calibrated in the Gizmo menu.  Rudder, ailerons, elevators all work flawlessly.

The normal method of making condition levers is to use a default (generic) mixture dataref that is available in x-plane.  We had to make ours from scratch to use a combination of mixture AND prop control.  Not an easy task by any stretch.  I spent many days, nights and weeks with Jim running through tests and modifying the flight model while Jim made changes to the code.

In saying all this, landing gear, flaps, brakes, etc... all work.  G raises and lowers gear.  Flaps can be set by binding the command to a key or button.  I'm not sure on the radios as I have gotten used to operating them using the mouse.

I can't comment on other developers add ons or why they work flawlessly with your hardware.  I don't have any of them and don't wish to speculate.  

It's not really that difficult to fly once you get a good flow going.  Have you tried the tutorial?  I made sure it covers many of the items needed in various scenarios of flight.

If you just want to fly it, we implemented an Auto Start feature that gets you started.  All you need to do is tune radios and set Condition Levers to Max.  If we made it any easier, it'd be an Airbus.

[yvog]

Hi Goran,

Thanks for the reply.

I allocated one of my quadrant levers to the generic "mixture" parameter, but it still doesn't work.

I will try again, going through the data ref, and will come back to you.

I also realized I can't "practice" landings by using the 3NM or 10Nm approach to a runway, as the plane's engines won't be running.

I don't know about other flight simmers, but for me, landing a plane us the most difficult part of the whole flying experience, so with any new plane I buy, I usually start by learning how to land it, which I can't do with the SAAB.

I repeat, it is a beautiful plane, and I admire all the attention to detail, but I'll have to take a deep breath and try again. (I haven't managed to even start the engines so far)

Btw, where is the Tutorial?

I downloaded and printed out your 200 odd pages manual, but that is more of a reference book on everything in the plane.

The tutorial would indeed be a big help

[Ben Russell]

@Ben

I use the XSaitekpanels plug in available on x-plane.org. As I mentioned in my reply to Goran, the plugin works almost for 90 % on all planes.

The Radio panel and the Multi panel works on all of them completely. The Switch Panel works 95% on the Dash 8 (the panel light switch doesn't work)

On the Carenado Beechcraft B58, I got some help from someone with a LUA plugin to make most of the switches to work.

All these pay ware planes allow you to set the yoke, rudder, quadrants in X-plane's "Joystick & Equipment" menu.

 

The XSaitekPanels plugin is maintained by a third party author. It has nothing

to do with us and nothing to do with Laminar.

 

It is my understanding that XSaitekPanels is modified on an as needed basis to

work with complex models as they are released.

 

"sparker", the author of the plugin, has stated that he has no interest in

making XSaitekPanels work with the Saab because the Saab uses Gizmo64 and

Gizmo64 does not support Linux.

 

 

Our product does not block or exclude XSaitekPanels.

 

We are not using X-Plane in a way that blocks XSaitekPanels from working with

the Saab.

 

The only blocking issue here is a personal opinion that "sparker" has decided to

take against modifying his product to act as a gateway between the Saab systems

and your Satitek hardware.

 

 

I understand that it would be better for everyone if it just worked.

 

Beyond the fact that I cannot afford to support Linux(nor can I afford to mod

XSaitekPanels myself) it is absolutely no fault of ours what-so-ever that our

product does not work with XSaitekPanels.

 

The blockage and incompatibility exists only due to sparkers personal decision.

A decision he is completely free to make.

 

 

If your complex products worked with your hardware out of the box without

additional third party plugins we would have something to discuss. 

As you have conceded that this is not the case there is no issue here.

 

 

If you wish to see this item change I suggest you try and convince "sparker" to

add support for the Saab.

 

His decision to valiantly carry the flag of 3% of users is hurting the other 97%

of users.

[yvog]

Hi Ben,

I had no idea of of Sparker's decision, but it seems to me that x-aviation is the odd ball here as they have their own implementation of various function.

Sparker's plug in is free and a favour to people who bought Saitek gear, because Saitek themselves do not offer support for X-plane.

Saitek's gear is superior to CH and that's what many of us bought it.

The Sparker plug in will work at least 90% "out of the box" There is a manual on how to create your own xsaitekpanels.ini file using the data refs, and that can make the panels give 99% functionality. In fact the only "problem" panel is the switch panel which may have some switches not working on some planes.( The Radio and Multi panels work 100% on all my planes.)

One can either develop one's one XSaitekPanels.ini file for a specific plane or get it from someone who went through the trouble of doing that.

But it seems that X-Aviation Saab is completely different so I wouldn't know where to start to make my own .ini file.

[Ben Russell]

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

 

People want complex systems and aircraft. Complexity comes at a cost.

 

 

Here's sparkers "announcement":

 

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=69728&p=765589

 

 

I did not write the systems code for the Saab so I cannot speak for why it is non-standard but it would have been done for good reason.

 

We have better things to do than re-invent the wheel.

 

 

If sparker want's to change his mind the doors are open.

[Goran_M]

Hi Goran,

Thanks for the reply.

I allocated one of my quadrant levers to the generic "mixture" parameter, but it still doesn't work.

I will try again, going through the data ref, and will come back to you.

I also realized I can't "practice" landings by using the 3NM or 10Nm approach to a runway, as the plane's engines won't be running.

I don't know about other flight simmers, but for me, landing a plane us the most difficult part of the whole flying experience, so with any new plane I buy, I usually start by learning how to land it, which I can't do with the SAAB.

I repeat, it is a beautiful plane, and I admire all the attention to detail, but I'll have to take a deep breath and try again. (I haven't managed to even start the engines so far)

Btw, where is the Tutorial?

I downloaded and printed out your 200 odd pages manual, but that is more of a reference book on everything in the plane.

The tutorial would indeed be a big help

 

To calibrate the condition levers, you need to open the condition lever calibration utility in the Gizmo sidebar.  The one major flaw in this is that you will have to calibrate it each time you open X-Plane.  This is something we could not work around as it involves digging into X-Planes code and, as you know, that is not possible.

 

Regarding starting from 3nm out from an airport...I don't know of ANY add on that uses a variety of plug ins that can do this without something going wrong.  

If you need to practice approaches, you could always do a circuit at your airport of choice and practice touch and go's.

 

The tutorial, included in the Manuals folder, includes a startup section.  We have also included a virtual checklist (opened using the Gizmo sidebar) which snaps the camera to the area where you need to be as you progress further along the checklist.

[yvog]

@ Goran,

My apologies, I did find the Tutorial and 10 step quick start.

I will also try and map my quadrant as per instructions.

It will still leave me without being able to use my Radio and Multi Panel, but I'll find a way.

Thanks for your (and Ben's) speedy replies.

I may be a pain in the neck but I'm not giving up until I have flown this beast!

[tomcat357]

I don’t like jumping in on conversations like this but I think this is a perfect example of how folks have become so dependent on others we have forgotten the very basics of computing. Dinda like pilots having to relearn how to fly because technology does most of it for them now. I am not defending the Saab or gizmo, I am having my own issues with stack overflows, but that’s another issue, but dissing a choice product because someone else don’t support your choice product takes away from real issues that are far more important. The Saitek Panels are USB devices, get that, USB devices, they can be programed by any good USB controller software, key combos, time delays, on and on, the only thing I use Mr. Bills drivers for are the displays and I can live nicely without those. Or you can simply replace the necessary commands in the .ini file for the Saab. Either way, you have to connect the Saitek Panels to your plane.

[Ben Russell]

@tomcat: Are you saying that we as creators of the Saab have some kind of responsibility to ensure that the Saitek products/plugins work?

[yvog]

@Tomcat.

Sorry, but please don't jump to conclusions without really knowing what I meant.

I perfectly know how to adjust the xsaitekpanels.ini file. I am not that stupid. But the issue here is that we have a plane that us completely different from the usual X-planes, whether freeware or pay ware.

Just a simple example: the "Joystick & equipment" menu item in X-plane seems not applicable to this plane as changing the parameter for the quadrant has no effect.

As has been explained to me, it seems to be done through something called Gizmo.

I will gladly admit that I had not really read those parts of the "quick set-up" because I assumed this plane is similar to the other planes when it comes to working with Saitek Yokes/quadrants/etc. I was not aware about the Gizmo issue, my fault, sorry.

I am reasonably familiar with adjusting the "USB" devices using the ini file, but I am NOT a computer programmer. If you are saying we must be experts in programming USB devices before we can make comments, then I am obviously in the wrong league here.

I am a 68 year old guy who only started sim flying about a year ago. I learned a lot, and I know I have a lot more to learn.

As I said earlier, I am very fascinated by this plane, but I guess I got culture shock when I realized it is VERY different from the planes I have when it comes to integrating it into my system at home.

Isn't it obvious that when I am trying to map my quadrants to the levers in the SAAB, I would go to where I always went, i.e. to the X-plane menu?

I will try and make my radio panel work, the same with the multi panel, it's just that I had not expected these complications.

I noticed that (as far as I know) the X-aviation SAAB is not listed in the x-plane.org store. I only heard about it when reading FSPilot.

Any reason?

[Ben Russell]

I noticed that (as far as I know) the X-aviation SAAB is not listed in the x-plane.org store. I only heard about it when reading FSPilot.

Any reason?

 

Mainly politics. Best left at that...

 

 

We aim to grow X-Plane by doing things that are occasionally outside the box.

 

If X-Plane gains the ability to let us integrate the mixture levers into the standard controls config screens I'm sure we'll adapt our product to suit that as its easier for all involved.

 

 

There are plenty of other artists making stuff with only what X-Plane provides.

Some even go so far as to refuse to use plugins at all, they insist that X-Plane must provide the entire tool set.

 

 

Someone has to clear the way... if that means we wear a few scratches and get bitten by some bugs, so be it.

 

 

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

[Cameron]

But the issue here is that we have a plane that us completely different from the usual X-planes, whether freeware or pay ware.

 

Which is a good thing. X-Plane needs complex products! Luckily more are on the way, but someone has to break the ice. Customers have been crying for it!

 

 

Just a simple example: the "Joystick & equipment" menu item in X-plane seems not applicable to this plane as changing the parameter for the quadrant has no effect.

 

It IS applicable if you used the advanced menu options as specified in one of the manuals. There's a reason X-Plane has this menu in existence. They were thinking forward to a day like this when it would be needed!

 

 

I will gladly admit that I had not really read those parts of the "quick set-up" because I assumed this plane is similar to the other planes when it comes to working with Saitek Yokes/quadrants/etc. I was not aware about the Gizmo issue, my fault, sorry.

 

It is not a "Gizmo issue", but the reality that almost every other aircraft you seem to have purchased or downloaded was developed by using X-Plane's default throttle quadrant functionality, which then means it used default datarefs. As such, some things just worked because there was no programming logic other than what X-Plane already offers to make it operate. For the Saab 340, we couldn't do that if we wanted the aircraft to act like the real thing. X-Plane does not support this functionality right, so we custom programmed it to be like the REAL aircraft. The end result is we made alternate accommodations for you to use your hardware (and by the way, there's plenty of people using Saitek equipment with this product).

 

 

As I said earlier, I am very fascinated by this plane, but I guess I got culture shock when I realized it is VERY different from the planes I have when it comes to integrating it into my system at home.

 

Consider this a primer on what's to come in future add-ons. It's good to get familiar with the more advanced options in X-Plane's menus!

 

 

Isn't it obvious that when I am trying to map my quadrants to the levers in the SAAB, I would go to where I always went, i.e. to the X-plane menu?

 

It's logical, yes. But, as per the documentation included with this aircraft states, it's also incorrect.

 

 

I noticed that (as far as I know) the X-aviation SAAB is not listed in the x-plane.org store. I only heard about it when reading FSPilot.

Any reason?

 

You still have more to learn about the X-Plane community and its history. Either way, not a discussion for this thread, as it's honestly irrelevant and the answer to this question exists in so many different places...with a little research that is. That said, it's essentially water under the bridge by now and I warn you that doing such research is an honest waste of your time.

 

We're focused on moving forward. That's it. You can most certainly get your hardware to work as it should with this aircraft. Learning is part of that process.  Let me just say, however, that this is not helping. I hope you reconsider, as your statements in that post are false to a very large degree.

[mmerelles]

Hi Goran,

Thanks for the reply.

I allocated one of my quadrant levers to the generic "mixture" parameter, but it still doesn't work.

I will try again, going through the data ref, and will come back to you.

I also realized I can't "practice" landings by using the 3NM or 10Nm approach to a runway, as the plane's engines won't be running.

I don't know about other flight simmers, but for me, landing a plane us the most difficult part of the whole flying experience, so with any new plane I buy, I usually start by learning how to land it, which I can't do with the SAAB.

I repeat, it is a beautiful plane, and I admire all the attention to detail, but I'll have to take a deep breath and try again. (I haven't managed to even start the engines so far)

Btw, where is the Tutorial?

I downloaded and printed out your 200 odd pages manual, but that is more of a reference book on everything in the plane.

The tutorial would indeed be a big help

 

I have no radio panels so i can not help on that.

 

But it do have saitek throttle quadrant and it works flawlessly:

 

1. Throttle (black lever) gets mapped automatically

2. Conditions levers should be mapped manually to red and blue levers on the quadrant. To map them: go to menu->plugins->gizmo->toolbox

You will fin there an icon that says joystick assignment. You clic start for left and right levers, you move your levers and they get mapped automatically.

 

hope that helps

[tomcat357]

@tomcat: Are you saying that we as creators of the Saab have some kind of responsibility to ensure that the Saitek products/plugins work?

Not at all Ben, you misread my post.

 

@Tomcat.

Sorry, but please don't jump to conclusions without really knowing what I meant.

I perfectly know how to adjust the xsaitekpanels.ini file. I am not that stupid. But the issue here is that we have a plane that us completely different from the usual X-planes, whether freeware or pay ware.

Just a simple example: the "Joystick & equipment" menu item in X-plane seems not applicable to this plane as changing the parameter for the quadrant has no effect.

As has been explained to me, it seems to be done through something called Gizmo.

I will gladly admit that I had not really read those parts of the "quick set-up" because I assumed this plane is similar to the other planes when it comes to working with Saitek Yokes/quadrants/etc. I was not aware about the Gizmo issue, my fault, sorry.

I am reasonably familiar with adjusting the "USB" devices using the ini file, but I am NOT a computer programmer. If you are saying we must be experts in programming USB devices before we can make comments, then I am obviously in the wrong league here.

I am a 68 year old guy who only started sim flying about a year ago. I learned a lot, and I know I have a lot more to learn.

As I said earlier, I am very fascinated by this plane, but I guess I got culture shock when I realized it is VERY different from the planes I have when it comes to integrating it into my system at home.

Isn't it obvious that when I am trying to map my quadrants to the levers in the SAAB, I would go to where I always went, i.e. to the X-plane menu?

I will try and make my radio panel work, the same with the multi panel, it's just that I had not expected these complications.

I noticed that (as far as I know) the X-aviation SAAB is not listed in the x-plane.org store. I only heard about it when reading FSPilot.

Any reason?

I did not mean in any way that anyone is stupid, that is one of the reasons I so seldom comment on these boards. I am sorry if you took it that way. My comment was that the Saitek Panels can be anything you wish and you do not have to be a programmer.. and the Saab is only one of many planes that don't use default assignments or datarefs.

[iGoApp]

http://forums.x-pilot.com/topic/5806-xsaitekpanelsini/?p=61390

[xterminator24]

I have a Saitek yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals and all work flawlessly. I simply have to assign 2 axis to the left and right condition levers as explained by mmerelles above.

I also have a Saitek radio panel which wasn't working but that didn't bother me much. Seeing Igorland's post above certainly has me excited that it may work with a simple INI file.

Lastly, I had a difficult time with the Saab initially. It's a complex plane which can keep you on your toes. I can say without a doubt that I've had more enjoyment and satisfaction from this plane than any other. There's nothing more satisfying than navigating from VOR to VOR and nailing an approach.

Give the aircraft time, work with it, and seek answers to your specific questions. Just bashing the plane and ranting because it's different than everything else isn't fair to the developers or to yourself.

[yvog]

@ igorland

 

YESSS!!! Thank you!!

 

@cameron: Managed to get the condition levers mapped

[yvog]

Finally… my apologies for the earlier "ranting"

 

It is clear that I should have done a lot more reading before posting.

 

Maybe there should be some kind of "notice" to traditional X-plane users that this plane (Saab 340) IS very different from the usual X-plane aircraft when it comes to implementation of the functions.

 

Thanks also to Igorland for working on the xsaitekpanels.ini file for this plane. It does help to have more of the hardware working now

[Cameron]

It is clear that I should have done a lot more reading before posting.

 

Maybe you should re-consider your posting: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=71035&p=826487

 

Maybe there should be some kind of "notice" to traditional X-plane users that this plane (Saab 340) IS very different from the usual X-plane aircraft when it comes to implementation of the functions.

 

I don't really think there's a need. This plane has been out almost a year (come September). You're the first person to complain and jump the gun like this. People tend to come to expect this when we talk about something being so complex.

[yvog]

@ Camerond

Maybe you should re-consider your posting: http://forums.x-plan...=71035&p=826487
 

 

I've deleted it