ilias.tselios Posted February 2, 2014 Report Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) I will agree that you can have full support on Linux for Enterprises, but costs a lot. And for the history: What Psystar was really stupid. The had pre-installed Mac OS X in their machines, which installation counts as a copy of the original, and sell the PCs with a legally purchase of Mac OS X. But that they have installed was not they one that they bundled with the PC. So, they went down for copyright infringements, because they were selling a copy of the OS, the one that was already installed and not because they were selling Hackintosh. I'm not inviting anyone to build a Hackintosh, but it is an option. There are many site with suggestions, guides etc. Even a guy on Youtube (with 1 million subscribers!) have build a Hackintosh (Pro) detailing every step, tips and tricks. My point is that if you are lone in the woods and want to build a pc to fly X-Plane, what road you choose (except buying a MAC, which is what I suggest), you will face, more or less, the same problems. At the end, I really hope and have a small belief in... that Linux will become the top operating system. Edited February 2, 2014 by airfighter Quote
Hexley Posted February 3, 2014 Report Posted February 3, 2014 I agree and would like to see that too, Linux is the best OS out there. The alternative is pretty nice also, I have 3 Macs and they work great. My Dell laptop doesn't have a sufficient video card so I can't run many games on Linux. Quote
Abburo Posted February 3, 2014 Report Posted February 3, 2014 Why won't leave the things as they are now? Why should a Linux or Apple box be better than a Windows one? Why should win any of them. For the sake of future operating systems improvments just let the things as they are. They are improving each other people...!As well as the fight AMD vs Nvidia vs Intel should also exist. Get rid one of them and the innovations will freeze! Also, choosing the right OS or hardware platform is nothing more in these days than a matter of personal taste and needs. Me for example, I would not go away from Windows for gaming and general usage. Also I would never buy an Apple product, and I would use any UX flavour just for dedicated tasks (like servers, gaming servers also, or raw computing). 1 Quote
Agrajag Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 I've always wondered what the X-Plane Linux experience would be like for anyone coming directly from Windows. I've tried Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint and others, and always ended up back with the Evil Empire. Why? Too many trade offs. You go into it thinking things will just work. Then you find all sorts of small but annoying gotchas. Drivers that aren't optimized, hardware with no drivers, software that only partially does what the Windows version does. I've always felt that Windows is hugely bloated. That suggests that X-Plane should run better and with higher performance than on Windows. Is that the case? Are all the sceneries and planes OS agnostic or do Linux users have to work with a subset of options from an already small main library of options? Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Quote
uglyDwarf Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Hi,planes and sceneries that do not use plugins can be used on any system (provided there aren't problems with case of filenames); planes and sceneries with plugins are only limited to platforms for which the plugin is provided. There you are at mercy of the developer, however there are plenty of alternatives, so I personaly don't think that I'm missing anything working primarily on Linux. As for your experience with Linux, I do have a similar view of Windows - I stumbled upon several devices, that weren't supported by windows (some printers and ethernet to usb stick), that worked on Linux just by plugging it in. On the other hand, I had a network card, that required manual installation of 4 packages (you can't download anything when your network card doesn't work, right) - if I had the ethernet to usb stick back then, it would be just a matter of updating the system. I also find interesting how people praise Windows 8 for their fast boot up speed - my single core atom netbook with full Ubuntu boots up faster than a i5 notebook with Windows 8... But I might be missing something (both machines have conventional harddrives). Funny thing is, how many prophets are around here, "knowing" that Linux doesn't stand a chance. And it seems to me, that they are really frightened now... Why?First they said that Linux doesn't have chance, because of bad hardware support... Today, there is only a small portion of hardware, that doesn't support Linux.Then they said there will be no games on Linux... Now there are hundreds of them... Yes, but no AAA titles... Well, there are some already and more is in the pipe... Anyway,the point is - use whatever system you like, doing anything else would be plain stupid; just remember, that there are alternatives and the day might come, when such knowledge will come really handy (Kaspersky Live CD maybe? worked like a charm for me...).Kind regards, Michal 1 Quote
Ben Russell Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Comparing boot times? Edited February 13, 2014 by Ben Russell Quote
uglyDwarf Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 Given it is one of the big features of the Windows 8 - why not? Especially when Atom beats i5 (not to mention DDR2 vs DDR3 memory) - it is really sad. Quote
sqrt(-1) Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 ... it is really sad. Yes, it is: Quote
uglyDwarf Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure what is the point you are trying to make - you mean the decline of windows and rising percentage of MacOS and Linux? Edited February 14, 2014 by uglyDwarf Quote
sqrt(-1) Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 At that rate, you will be part of the composition of crude oil by the time Linux becomes the dominant OS. For the past twenty years, I have heard Linux "enthusiasts" postulate the upcoming dominance of their superior OS. In those twenty years, Linux barely gained one percent. That's alright. It's okay to dream... Quote
uglyDwarf Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) At that rate, you will be part of the composition of crude oil by the time Linux becomes the dominant OS. For the past twenty years, I have heard Linux "enthusiasts" postulate the upcoming dominance of their superior OS. In those twenty years, Linux barely gained one percent. That's alright. It's okay to dream... I didn't say it is going to be dominant, or did I? All I'm saying is, that Linux is here to stay, like it or not...And gaming is part of it already... Edited February 14, 2014 by uglyDwarf Quote
alpilotx Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 For the past twenty years, I have heard Linux "enthusiasts" postulate the upcoming dominance of their superior OS. In those twenty years, Linux barely gained one percent.Well, if you don't count in Android (which is completely Linux based too ... and yes, I know - we don't need to discuss that here - not everybody would that count as "Linux" in the classic sense ...), then you might be right. But if you count in Android, then market domination is more or less already here:http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/535360/android_dominate_device_shipments_reach_2_5bn_2014_gartner/ Projected devices 2014: 2.4 billionProjected users in 2014: 1.1 billion Quote
sqrt(-1) Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I didn't say it is going to be dominant, or did I? All I'm saying is, that Linux is here to stay, like it or not...And gaming is part of it already... No, you did not say it was going to be dominant. But you did suggest Windows was declining while OSX and Linux was gaining. Looking over longer periods of time than I posted, my point was merely that gains are incredibly slow. I also never indicated in any of my posts in anything regarding Linux that I didn't like it or that it doesn't have its merits. I had at least 3 different distributions running for over 15 years. Unfortunately, Linux just wasn't a fit for my line of work. Well, if you don't count in Android (which is completely Linux based too ... and yes, I know - we don't need to discuss that here - not everybody would that count as "Linux" in the classic sense ...), then you might be right. But if you count in Android, then market domination is more or less already here:http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/535360/android_dominate_device_shipments_reach_2_5bn_2014_gartner/ Projected devices 2014: 2.4 billionProjected users in 2014: 1.1 billion It was only a matter of time before somebody would trot out the Android case. I was talking about desktop computers running desktop applications. Mobile devices running apps are an entirely different class of device for an entirely different purpose. And yes, Andriod rules in that arena. Edited February 14, 2014 by SqrtOfNegOne Quote
uglyDwarf Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 Well, lots of games are being played on Android devices, so I'd say that it is kind of relevant to this thread... And as for the Linux desktop numbers/stats, do you know how did they come up with them? Are they USA only, or worldwide? How come that numbers from different companies differ so much? Statcounter reports XP around 19%, while Netmarketshare around 29% (January). I'd say it means that the numbers are very imprecise, so that reported 1.6% might be much more... As Winston Churchill said - I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself Quote
uglyDwarf Posted February 14, 2014 Report Posted February 14, 2014 I know - I looked at their numbers too... The problem is, that these numbers are just numbers and it is hard to judge how accurate they are... Quote
Ben Russell Posted February 18, 2014 Author Report Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I am not a beginner. I have been using linux for 10 years, I have installed and used dozens of different distros, I have installed some distros dozens of times, I was the CTO of a startup company where my job was creating custom Linux distros for embedded devices, I am currently a senior level Linux administrator at a large tech company. I mention all of this, not to impress anyone, but to make it clear that I am not afraid of customization or getting my hands dirty fixing problems within a system. I have built gentoo systems, and more recently highly customized debian based distros, but about two years ago I started using Linux Mint as my main distro. I wanted to be intemently familier with Mint because I wanted to recommend it to my friends and clients. I stayed with Mint because I like the idea of an easy to use distro that is ready to go out of the box. A few months ago I bought a new laptop and installed Mint on it... and there was a small problem; the audio was not working properly and I had to add my user to the audio group, not too hard. When I wanted to play a dvd on my laptop I had to install the libdvdcss library. Recently I plugged my laptop into an HDMI projector; no image, no sound :-( The screen is recognized the 'HDMI Output' option is available from the sound preferences, yet there is no picture and no sound. I am sure I can fix this issue, given enough time. But I came to Mint so I wouldn't have to deal with things that should work out of the box. How can I recommend Linux to my family and friends? "It's easy... except you have to add yourself to the audio group". How can I recommend Linux to my clients? "Everything works... except HDMI output and playing DVDs". How can I recommend Linux if Mint, a distro that is aimed at being 'easy', has these ovious problems? I have been advocating the use of Linux for years, but how can I look someone in the eye and say that Linux works just as well as windows when HDMI doesn't, DVD playback doesn't, you have to know the command line, and you have to edit txt config files to get basic functionality? Pleas, please, please I am begging the Linux community as a whole and the Mint community in particular; GET YOUR unicorns TOGETHER. Really, this is embarrassing. @michaelbeam http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=159931 Edited February 18, 2014 by Ben Russell Quote
uglyDwarf Posted February 19, 2014 Report Posted February 19, 2014 That is what I call an argument... If you'd read the response in the linked post, you'd find, that DVD playback is not a techical problem, but legal one... User not being added to the audio group sounds like a glitch in this particular distro - don't you think there would be much more uproar, if it was a common Linux problem? And with that HDMI issue - there are no details like which GPU, what drivers, etc. - then it is hard to judge what exactly was the problem here... Just to be fair - windows has its own share of problems... Yesterday I spent some quality time trying to get a printer working - for some reason, the driver shipped with windows was sure the printer is only black/white, while it is a color printer and it also failed to recoginze the duplexer unit (even when enabled in the advanced options dialogue). After an hour spent by going through the diferent printer preferences dialogues I found that I had to download new driver from manufacturers site... The point is - your mileage may vary, no matter what system you use...Kind regards, Michal Quote
Agrajag Posted February 19, 2014 Report Posted February 19, 2014 I'm one of the people that believes the future is pretty OS-agnostic because it's all heading to the browser. More and more as things move to the cloud, I'm able to set people up with something that allows them to just use a browser and they're happy. Lately I've even been able to get away without having to bother with Office -- which is a HUGE deal for many. I show them Google Docs (which is fairly terrible head-to-head against Office) and it's good enough for 90% of people. The rest is mainly browsing the Net and Gmail, etc. As more games come for browsers none of this will matter a whole lot. Sort of like going back to the DOS days -- which in this case is a good thing. Leave the complexity for the office. Home users don't need it. Quote
hobofat Posted February 19, 2014 Report Posted February 19, 2014 As more games come for browsers none of this will matter a whole lot. I rue the day this happens. 1 Quote
Agrajag Posted February 20, 2014 Report Posted February 20, 2014 This is going to happen. Bank on it. As Microsoft continues to lose home PC market share, the agnostic benefits of being able to access content from any device via a browser will continue to gain traction. What's to rue? Quote
Ben Russell Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Posted February 20, 2014 250ms+ one way ping? 1 Quote
sundog Posted February 20, 2014 Report Posted February 20, 2014 My money's on lots of highly specialized devices in the home, as opposed to accessing any content from any device. Play games on your Steambox / XBox / whatever. Read books on your Kindle. Watch TV on your Roku. Check the web and messages on your phablet. Heck, my house is mostly there already. Consumers who need a traditional PC, such as developers and content creators, will become increasingly niche. Hard to see the PC leaving the office, but given that office PC's need to be usable by non-technical people, it's hard to see Linux gaining traction there. In these specialized devices however, Linux and its variants is the obvious choice due to cost and the lack of any need to expose the actual OS to the end user. How many people know or care that their Kindle Fire is running a branched version of Android? To them it's just a UI for consuming content. Quote
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