Can we expect VR Support anytime soon

[ayousry]

Hi

since xp11.20b is released and LR talking about SDK's that has been sent to developers already , whats the next step for SMP ?!

thanks

[sundog]

We haven't received anything, and honestly your note is the first I've heard of it. Have you tried SMP in 11.20b? Are there specific problems with it? I don't own a VR headset so I have no way of knowing myself.

[ayousry]

My experience was with flyinside ,

Problems was rotating clouds ,i tried your previous suggestions makes it better but still unflyable in VR

 

11.20b is now very unstable for me to give you a good review but ill try my best and Keep you updated 

Edited December 26, 2017 by ayousry

[gcbraun]

With native VR now implemented in XP11, would it be fair to expect some kind of support for VR? I have bought Skymaxx but has stopped using it long ago, since it did not work correctly with Flyinside. I have briefly tested with Native VR and the problems remain, specially the rotating clouds, something that does not happen with stock clouds. 

[Ben Russell]

4 minutes ago, gcbraun said:

With native VR now implemented in XP11, would it be fair to expect some kind of support for VR? I have bought Skymaxx but has stopped using it long ago, since it did not work correctly with Flyinside. I have briefly tested with Native VR and the problems remain, specially the rotating clouds, something that does not happen with stock clouds. 

I've requested Laminar publish some VR usage stats. These won't be available until 11.30 enters beta at the earliest.

I've also been following some Facebook polls to gauge the number of VR users active today without having to wait weeks or months of 11.30b.

So far I'm only seeing about 150 active users with VR gear. This will surely grow with time but for now it's a very niche part of the market.

 

If you're on Facebook I recommend casting your vote in this poll;

https://www.facebook.com/groups/VRAviators/permalink/1872729819704349/

 

 

[gcbraun]

Well, besides FSW, all civilian flight-sim platforms have implemented native VR in the last months. It may be a small percentage of the market now, but I would think it would wise for developers to stay ahead of the curve and begin to adapt their products for VR. Both Laminar Research and Lockheed Martin are very outspoken about how this technology will impact the market.

If you fly in VR once, there is usually no turning back. And, considering that HMDs are starting to get really cheap, I think we will see an exponential growth of the user-base in the next year.

Edited December 29, 2017 by gcbraun

[Ben Russell]

6 minutes ago, gcbraun said:

Well, besides FSW, all civilian flight-sim platforms have implemented native VR in the last months. It may be a small percentage of the market now, but I would think it would wise for developers to stay ahead of the curve and begin to adapt their products for VR. Both Laminar Research and Lockheed Martin are very outspoken about how this technology will impact the market.

Once you fly in VR once, there is usually no turning back. And, considering that HMDs are starting to get really cheap, I think we will see an exponential growth of the user-base in the next year.

Local prices are $650 for the Rift and $999 for the VIVE. Not even remotely "really cheap".

Remember 3D monitors? They were the future too once. And a lot easier to find locally. (Rift doesn't have a single retail location or partner in Australia as far as I can tell...)

I like VR, I've dabbled with it. I can't justify the outlay based on the return at the moment though.

Laminar and Lockheed have far more resources to throw at it, most of the smaller X-Plane dev's are working a second job.

 

I'd summarise the internal outlook as 'cautiously optimistic' at the moment.

[gcbraun]

These prices are not what is general found in Europe. Sorry to hear that they are still that expensive at your region. Hopefully this will change in the near future!

I do not use my HMD for general gaming that often, you may consider them gimmicky at that, but for lower-end flight training and flight simulation, oh boy...it is the best cost-benefit solution by far. A 400 Euro investment will get you a realistic flight-deck environment for every aircraft you own! How can you beat that?

Have you tried XP11 native VR with touch controls implementation yet? I am sure that your "cautiously optimistic" stance would change rather quickly once you start interacting with all those knobs and switches. 

I remember when I started using VR many months ago, all the reaction I would get was skepticism. That is around 50-50 now!

 

[Ben Russell]

3 minutes ago, gcbraun said:

These prices are not what is general found in Europe. Sorry to hear that they are still that expensive at your region. Hopefully this will change in the near future!

I do not use my HMD for general gaming that often, you may consider them gimmicky at that, but for lower-end flight training and flight simulation, oh boy...it is the best cost-benefit solution by far. A 400 Euro investment will get you a realistic flight-deck environment for every aircraft you own! How can you beat that?

Have you tried XP11 native VR with touch controls implementation yet? I am sure that your "cautiously optimistic" stance would change rather quickly once you start interacting with all those knobs and switches. 

I remember when I started using VR many months ago, all the reaction I would get was skepticism. That is around 50-50 now!

 

There are no local demo's available. Period.

Not even for size fitting. The occulus site directed me to Samoa as the nearest demo store, laughably dissapointing.

400 EUR =615.508AUD

 

I played a bit of ArmA 3 a few days ago via Trinus 3D/nVidia shield streaming and my old Samsung S5.

It's very compelling even with that combo of hardware.

 

At the moment not even my base return / income on XP11 growth is going exponential. Let alone returns on VR hardware investment and user base...

It is what it is.

 

Frank / Sundog has a more diversified market, his products are integrated into many other games and sims.

My opinions and resources differ from his but I still stand by the "cautiously optimistic" outlook as stated above.

 

[avantime]

On 29/12/2017 at 6:34 AM, Ben Russell said:

There are no local demo's available. Period.

Not even for size fitting. The occulus site directed me to Samoa as the nearest demo store, laughably dissapointing.

Most big cities should have at least 1 paid "VR experience" entertainment center. Just Google "-Your city- VR experience".

Edited December 31, 2017 by avantime

[Ben Russell]

Just now, avantime said:

Most big cities should have at least 1 paid "VR experience" entertainment center. Just Google "-Your city- VR experience".

Really? Wow. I'd never thought of that. 

* books ticket to SAMOA to demo a Rift...*

 

Please avoid this attitude in futre. It's beyond annoying.

[Cameron]

12 minutes ago, avantime said:

Most big cities should have at least 1 paid "VR experience" entertainment center. Just Google "-Your city- VR experience".

Has it occurred to you that not everyone lives by a big city, and some are not even close enough for a reasonable drive?

Ben already used that feature on the website. It directed him to an entirely different country as the closest option.

[avantime]

12 minutes ago, Ben Russell said:

Really? Wow. I'd never thought of that. 

* books ticket to SAMOA to demo a Rift...*

 

Please avoid this attitude in futre. It's beyond annoying.

Well it's up to you if you insist on going to Samoa as your only option. If I want a VR demo I'll check with local retailers, Google and online forums first. I'm in New Zealand and not only can I demo a Rift, I can rent one for a week as well.

And sorry I took out quite a bit of text in the previous post, as I realised that I was posting in the Skymaxx forum, not the IXEG one.

Edited December 31, 2017 by avantime

[Ben Russell]

The rift online store directs me to;

- Samoa

- Hawaii

- Alaska.

 

The VIVE lists two retail partners. I called both on the phone.

- Harvey norman has retail stock. No demo's. Not even for a size fitting.

- JB HiFi have stopped stocking it entirely, "pending a new model".

 

I got tired of filtering hype articles from 2016 looking for a demo store which would make little differece anyway as im three  hours from Brisbane and nine hours from Sydney.

 

There are no demo's available. Period.

 

Prove me wrong. I'd be happy if you did. Don't just tell me to Google, that's insulting at best. Sorry.

 

 

[Ben Russell]

8 minutes ago, avantime said:

Well it's up to you if you insist on going to Samoa as your only option. If I want a VR demo I'll check with local retailers, Google and online forums first. I'm in New Zealand and not only can I demo a Rift, I can rent one for a week as well.

And sorry I took out quite a bit of text in the previous post, as I realised that I was posting in the Skymaxx forum, not the IXEG one.

I jsut called the Harvey Norman "Flagship" store in Sydney, for a laugh and to prove a point.

"Hi, I'm interested in the HTC VIVE..."

'ahhhh, the htc... vive...'

"Yeah, the VR headset, are you aware of that?"

'ahhhh, let me.. just... check...'

"Don't worry about it, if you don't know what it is I don't care."

 

Impatient? Sure.

Rude? A little.

Bear in mind I'd just sat on hold at long-distance calling rates for five minutes to get a sales assistant who's clearly got no idea what I'm talking about.

 

But as you can see it's not exactly something these stores care about. Probably 0.0001% of people care after trying the useless Gear Headsets offered in every telco store.

[avantime]

3 minutes ago, Ben Russell said:

I jsut called the Harvey Norman "Flagship" store in Sydney, for a laugh and to prove a point.

With Oculus you're dealing with a Kickstarter company with no experience in international hardware distribution, owned by a social network of all things.

With HTC you're dealing with a failing phone maker that is very short of cash, which recently spun off its VR division.

With Harvey Norman you're dealing with a greedy chain store retailer who's more interested in selling you overpriced stuff on credit terms, in which the most profitable items are probably furniture.

You're not going to get any decent answers from any of them. If you do live in a rural location then your best chance of getting VR is to either drive to a big city, or rent one and get it posted to you. In that case you can call up the VR businesses, post in the Whirlpool forums or Reddit, and ask if they hire out VR headsets and are willing to post the headset to you. I did a bit of Googling and this company have VR headsets for hire, and they deliver. The good thing about rentals is that you can simply plug it in to your own PC, and the rental period is flexible. If it's used commercially it may be recognised as an expense for tax purposes, like an operating lease.

https://www.hire-intelligence.com.au/virtual-reality-and-wearables/oculus-rift-next-generation-virtual-reality-system

[Ben Russell]

3 minutes ago, avantime said:

With Oculus you're dealing with a Kickstarter company with no experience in international hardware distribution, owned by a social network of all things.

With HTC you're dealing with a failing phone maker that is very short of cash, which recently spun off its VR division.

With Harvey Norman you're dealing with a greedy chain store retailer who's more interested in selling you overpriced stuff on credit terms, in which the most profitable items are probably furniture.

You're not going to get any decent answers from any of them. If you do live in a rural location then your best chance of getting VR is to either drive to a big city, or rent one and get it posted to you. In that case you can call up the VR businesses, post in the Whirlpool forums or Reddit, and ask if they hire out VR headsets and are willing to post the headset to you. I did a bit of Googling and this company have VR headsets for hire, and they deliver. The good thing about rentals is that you can simply plug it in to your own PC, and the rental period is flexible. If it's used commercially it may be recognised as an expense for tax purposes, like an operating lease.

https://www.hire-intelligence.com.au/virtual-reality-and-wearables/oculus-rift-next-generation-virtual-reality-system

Thank you for taking time out of your day to track that down. Very constructive.

I've filed an enquiry..

 

Well aware of the company cultures, they're all as bad as each other. Gerry Harvey loves to cry poor on his mates TV channels. It's disgusting. 

 

Right now the VIVE is still head and shoulders above the rest for me purely because I can return or exchange it, in person, face to face, at a store that is a reasonable distance away from almost any town.

The Rift would require certified postal returns (probably international, which basically defeats the point) and stupid delays.

 

 

[Daikan]

I just wanted to chime to try to give VR support some more weight. I took the VR plunge as soon as XP11.20vr1 was out and there is really no way of going back to non-VR for me.

Realizing that SMP4 was not VR-compatible was disappointing although not totally surprising.

However, reading the comments in this thread had me worried a bit regarding the official stance towards VR. I realize it's very early on and it might be a "niche" now but IMO it is foreseeable that the general adoption in the flightsim sector will continue to grow substantially - once you've experienced it it is hard to believe otherwise, especially if you're into flightsimming mainly for leisure and fun.

Just as an indicator: There have been 722 posts in the newly created topic VR in X-Plane 11 alone on x-plane.org since January 2nd...

[AeroPictor]

I just followed this thread, VR might be an interesting toy, but the price tag is and remains and big hurdle. Not every European customer is willing to fork out 300-400 euros for an equipment that is only of use for a hobby. There are more posts on the X-Plane 11 Linux topic then on the  VR in X-Plane 11. VR is indeed an intersting tool for visualisation of architecture, modelisation. But I assume that a computer able to handle the full 3D of a flight is not sitting on many X-Plane users desktop. Laminar might act assuming a wealthy American customer base, but the rst of the world may have other priorities.   

[gcbraun]

With high-end add-on planes costing 100-150 Euro and top-tier graphic cards costing 1100 Euro (if you can find one), 300-400 does not seem that expensive, does it?

Edited January 20, 2018 by gcbraun

[Cameron]

Our goal with SkyMaxx Pro will definitely be to get it working in VR at some point.

I do have an Oculus here in the office, but we have a couple of things to clear off our plate before we investigate this topic further. We'll definitely post more information on it as we start to examine what's going on and what we can do for VR users!

[mmerelles]

25 minutes ago, kickremi said:

I just followed this thread, VR might be an interesting toy, but the price tag is and remains and big hurdle. Not every European customer is willing to fork out 300-400 euros for an equipment that is only of use for a hobby. There are more posts on the X-Plane 11 Linux topic then on the  VR in X-Plane 11. VR is indeed an intersting tool for visualisation of architecture, modelisation. But I assume that a computer able to handle the full 3D of a flight is not sitting on many X-Plane users desktop. Laminar might act assuming a wealthy American customer base, but the rst of the world may have other priorities.   

 

You need just to look ahead... Saying VR is just a toy or no standard home computer can support it, or price tag is simply to high, is just because this is coming...

Laminar first VR beta is great already for those having the budget for it, despite all evolution/massification coming. It is natural those early adopters demands for addons supporting it, and it is quite clear developers will establish their support/rollout priorities to whatever makes sense for their business.

Just see Laminar developers page which topic had the most attention and user comments in the last 2 years, yes, VR.

[AeroPictor]

Mmerelles, I agree we need to look ahead. I think that the standards needs to get stable before jumping on a model fo VR.

Meanwhile, dear gcbraun, the price tag is still an important factor, the cost of the VR gear, the cost of the updates of the various aircraft models and other add-ons sums up. X-Aviation has a very kind and customer friendly upgrade policy, other vendors simply ignore their customers and charge the full price for upgrades, so the VR path might be very expensive. I am only expressing my reflections about an evolution of technology.

VR can be and is very interesting in visualizing models of architecture and virtual visits of inaccesible parts of historical buildings like the spire of the cathedral of Strasbourg. But I do not desktop publishing or historical research in VR. X-Plane is a nice hobby and I enjoy doing some paintwork for aircraft models. Some years ago there attempts to do liveries using 3D models, this did not really succeed.      

I will probably follow the line: wait and see …  

Edited January 21, 2018 by kickremi

[gonvise]

It's all very simple... Tested xplane 11 VR, amazing, sky max pro bug in VR, No support? 

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/40952-soft-cloud-art/

Installed and very happy, , works well in VR,..the "proffesional developers" should learn.

Uninstalled Sky max pro, share my experience with others virtual pilots who think, like me, that the VR is not only the future, is the present... none will buy Sky Max Pro.

Simple

[HiFlyer]

On 1/24/2018 at 7:46 AM, gonvise said:

It's all very simple... Tested xplane 11 VR, amazing, sky max pro bug in VR, No support? 

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/40952-soft-cloud-art/

Installed and very happy, , works well in VR,..the "proffesional developers" should learn.

Uninstalled Sky max pro, share my experience with others virtual pilots who think, like me, that the VR is not only the future, is the present... none will buy Sky Max Pro.

Simple

Pretty much. I came here looking for answers on what steps Skymaxx would be taking to support VR. Instead I see general dismissiveness. This is surprising, even disappointing, but if this is truly the prevailing attitude, then as you say, the next steps are obvious.

Skymaxx is now uninstalled pending other developements.

Edited January 27, 2018 by HiFlyer