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About cwjohan

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    Vancouver, BC, Canada
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    Sims and real-life Aviation, student pilot experience in Piper Cherokee, worked for EA on FIFA series as a systems developer. One of the original creators of Flickr.

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  1. Cool. Glad to hear that not running those plugins worked for you. But did you actually remove them from the plugins folder or just disable them in the Plugins menu in X-Plane?
  2. I see you have Silver Lining and Skunkcrafts Updater. Try removing those two plugins and see if the problem goes away.
  3. For my setup, the key to de-stressing the memory seemed to be removal of SilverLining (SkyMaxx). speedbird1229, do you also have a lot of airports and aircraft installed in X-Plane? You might also try removing all AI aircraft, since each one uses some memory and generates extra ATC activity.
  4. Followup to previous experiment removing almost all 3d party plugins from the plugins folder: Removed: RealWeatherConnector SilverLining Now all 3d party plugins have been removed from the plugins folder. Started up X-Plane and loaded the Saab 340A at CYLW airport and let it run cold & dark with no further action. After letting it run several hours, I had gotten no CTD. I then went through the standard manual start up procedure and flew IFR from CYLW Kelowna to KGEG Spokane with no problems other than that, throughout the flight prep and the flight, a hydraulics gauge wasn't working, though the hydraulic system seemed otherwise OK. I think I have seen hydraulic gauge malfunctions before. J. Gregory rightly points out that quite a bit of scenery still is loading plugins. These plugins are: Marginal.GroundTraffic (57 instances) sandybarbour.projects.customsbdatarefs004 (1 instance) Note: We can see by this experiment that the Saab 340A (like all my other aircraft) has no issues with these latter two plugins -- at least at this level of memory stress. Cheers, Craig Log.txt GizmoLog.txt
  5. Another experiment. From my full setup, I removed: 12 airports AutoGate AviTab Little Xpconnect SAM ToLissData ToLissFlightPlans ToLissTerrainData Xchecklist xjet XPUIPC NavigraphSimlink_64.xpl Previously, I had removed: 124thATC64 DataRefEditor EZPushback FlyWithLua core edition HeadShake librain SkunkCraftsUpdater TerrainRadar XFMC xreloaded XSquawkBox Plugins remaining in the plugins folder: Gizmo64.plugin PluginAdmin RealWeatherConnector SilverLining XPLM.framework XPWidgets.framework Result: Started up X-Plane and loaded the Saab 340A at CYLW airport and let it run cold & dark with no further action. After 12 minutes, I got a CTD. Log.txt
  6. Thanks for the input, Ben. Very informative. Pretty esoteric stuff, especially with the use of offset addresses that have to be in the first 2 GB of address space! Someone probably thought no one ever would need more than 2 GB for this type of memory pool, and they thought they were being very clever by using just 32-bit addresses to save space in the memory pool block chains. Is it possible that, in my case with the Saab 340A, the Garbage Collector is running out of memory because the instrument panel drawing code is doing nothing to de-reference some objects no longer needed (e.g., re-creating them on each drawing cycle and never setting to null the reference pointers to the old ones)? The code might get away with it when memory usage is not under stress, but fail when it is stressed? Looking forward to your coming update of Gizmo to provide more diagnostic info.
  7. Here's an example of the Saab 340A loaded in PGUM Guam and just left to run in cold and dark state. There is no ortho within thousands of miles of this place. My only action was to click on the X-Aviation licensing window to close it. After about 17 minutes, it hung. Three log messages indicate an out of memory situation. The Task Manager never showed RAM or VRAM exceeding about 30%. I have 32 GB of RAM and 8 GB of VRAM. G64: 611.008: Memory Allocation Error: Run(gfx): draw_SaabOnDrawBeforeGauges3D: not enough memory G64: 611.008: Memory Allocation Error: Run(gfx): draw_SAAB_PLII_COM1_Panel: not enough memory G64: 611.008: Memory Allocation Error: Run(gfx): draw_SAAB_PLII_COM2_Panel: not enough memory Log.txt GizmoLog.txt
  8. Here are the basic facts and how I see the problem based on more than 40 years software development experience (at EA, among others): 1.) The Saab 340A is one of my favorites but is the ONLY aircraft with which I experience the CTD in question. This tells me that somehow the Saab 340A does something that results in a crash (not necessarily anything wrong). And it tells me that the Saab 340A does something that none of my other aircraft do. We have to ask "What is that something?" 2.) With the basic install of X-Plane and no ortho and no custom scenery, I can have any plugins as I like -- none of them by itself or in combination with others brings down the Saab 340A. This tells me that the CTD is not entirely the fault of any plugin nor is it entirely the fault of the Saab 340A. 3.) The CTD only happens with my FULL X-Plane setup with a large amount of aircraft, scenery, ortho, and an extensive set of plugins. This tells me that the problem likely is memory related. X-Plane is memory constrained when fully loaded like my full setup. Each aircraft, item of scenery, and plugin uses some additional memory just by being present in the configuration, even if it is not directly being used. Loaded ortho tiles also take up additional memory. A few memory error messages in the logs confirm memory usage likely is part of the problem. 4.) The CTD reliably happens without doing anything with the Saab 340A. With my full setup, I can load it cold & dark at PGUM in Guam, where there is no ortho within thousands of miles, and just leave X-Plane running and take no further action and within 12 to 15 minutes it will crash. This is typical of a memory problem. 5.) I have 32 GB of RAM and the Task Manager doesn't show anywhere near all the memory used up before the crash and doesn't show memory gradually being used up more and more the longer X-Plane runs. This indicates that the problem is not a typical memory leak of the sort caused by not freeing up some frequent memory allocation. CONCLUSIONS: 1.) I see no evidence that any plugin is doing anything wrong other than using up some valuable memory space, pushing X-Plane or one of its drivers ever closer to running up against some limitation (a memory pool size?). 2.) I see no evidence that the Saab 340A has an ordinary memory leak. However, it (or possibly Gizmo) does something after 12 to 15 minutes that results in a crash and it something contingent only on the elapsed time -- the user need do nothing specific to cause the crash. That "something" likely is grabbing a big chunk of memory and it likely is a bigger chunk than any of my other aircraft ever grab. The fact that some part of X-Plane or the Saab 340A runs out of memory after a relatively constant amount of time suggests that the alleged memory grab is driven by a timer or possibly some sort of countdown. 3.) I can conclude that no plugin is responsible for this alleged memory grab since, when starting up or flying a different aircraft, I never experience the CTD. If a plugin were responsible, we would see the crash with one or more other aircraft, but we don't. 4.) I suspect that removing SilverLining helps only because it uses a lot more memory than most other plugins (speculation on my part), not because SilverLining has any particular fault. I feel that experimenting with adding and removing various plugins is just a game of "wack a mole" since the critical issue is how much memory is being used, not some fault with any particular plugin. 5.) It is not likely that the Saab 340A simply requires more memory than any of my other aircraft. I have several others that are big and quite complex (A319, A330, B777, TBM 900). So, if there's no timer-driven process in the Saab 340A that grabs a very big chunk of memory around 12 to 15 minutes after the aircraft has loaded, I don't know what to think. Possibly, one of the plugins does that and the Saab 340A is just really big? If you see a flaw in my reasoning, please point it out. There could be some possibility I'm overlooking -- but what? Cheers, Craig
  9. I removed SilverLining from the plugins folder and added xjet back to the plugins folder -- resulted in no CTD -- flight from Yakima to Spokane went fine. Log.txt GizmoLog.txt
  10. I removed the xjet plugin to a plugins_disabled folder and added SiverLining back to the plugins folder -- resulted in a CTD at about the same place in the startup sequence. Log.txt shows out of memory error in last few lines. Log.txt GizmoLog.txt
  11. UPDATE: I started getting crashes again with the Saab 340A. Happens at end of startup sequence as mentioned above. I removed Skunkcrafts Updater -- still got crashes twice. Then, also removed SilverLining -- no crash -- successfully flew from Yakima to Spokane. Flying in eastern Washington State with Orbx Washington with US Washington SD scenery (big), but with only default airports in the vicinity. The log.txt file below from one crash shows an out of memory situation related to sound driver. The GizmoLog.txt file is from the next test without SilverLining but does show an error. Log_saab340a_ctd_10_mem_err.txt GizmoLog.txt
  12. I just noticed today your post about Skunkcrafts Updater. I removed it from my fully loaded X-Plane configuration, leaving in all the other plugins, including Skymaxx Pro. I let it sit for 40 minutes after loading the LES Saab 340A and no crash. I was able to start up the engines and complete a flight from LEZL to LEMG. Yay. I don't mind removing that particular plugin since I don't like how it works in the first place, so for me it's an acceptable workaround -- unlike removing SkyMaxx Pro, which I like to use quite a bit. This doesn't really resolve why only the Saab 340A is affected or why it's only affected when there is lots of custom scenery loaded, but at least I can fly the Saab with HD orthophoto scenery, custom airports, and real weather as supported by SkyMaxx Pro.
  13. Some of those Ground Traffic plugin instances may be more than five years old. There's a chance for some sort of conflict there. How it would interact with SkyMaxx Pro and LES Saab 340A are a mystery to me. Perhaps one undoes some initialization that another set up? And why only with the Saab and SkyMaxx combination? And why don't other Saab + Skymaxx users see the same issue? I imagine a lot of LES Saab 340A + Skymaxx Pro customers have as much or more custom scenery as I do. The must unique thing about my setup is an AMD Ryzen 7 1800X 8-core processor plus I use Process Lasso to spread X-Plane execution across more threads than most users would be using. However, it hasn't caused issues with other X-Plane aircraft, so far. The crash scenario behaves a lot like a memory leak since the crash occurs after a relatively consistent amount of time (about 15 minutes), yet, watching memory usage in Task Manager, I don't see a gradual consumption of memory. There could be some event at that point that triggers some massive grab of memory and there just isn't that amount available if SkyMaxx Pro also is running? Is there some sort of trace flag I can turn on to try to get more info to diagnose what's happening?
  14. After much testing of my stripped down copy of X-Plane with the LES Saab 340A and just Western US scenery, no crashes occurred and I could have all plugins installed -- no problem. However, I then made a symbolic link from "Custom Scenery" to my normal fully loaded "Custom Scenery" and the crashes immediately started occurring again, even without trying to start the engines. Then, after removing all the plugins except Gizmo64, I could start and fly the Saab 340A once again no problems. So, there is some interaction between having a ton of custom scenery and having all the plugins I normally use. I suspect I could add back all the plugins except SkyMaxx Pro and it would keep working (as before). Any further suggestions? PS: I note that I have 54 instances of the Ground Traffic plugin because many airports include that. It's a pity they can't all share one instance. Log_saab340a_ctd01bb.txt Log_saab340a_ctd02bb.txt GizmoLog_saab340a_ctd01bb.txt GizmoLog_saab340a_ctd02bb.txt
  15. A typical programming mistake, for example, would be to use the value of a given dataref as the denominator of a division without checking first if it is zero. A divide by zero can cause a crash in a lot of different kinds of software, depending on if and how errors are trapped and dealt with. In any case, though, I've created a new stripped down copy of X-Plane based on the demo that now contains only the LES Saab 340A and Sky Max Pro + Real Weather Connector and Western USA scenery, plus the usual default aircraft and default airports. No custom airports and no orthophoto scenery. The Saab so far is working OK in this environment. No crashes. It's difficult to know if I've set everything up the same. Until I've used SkyMaxx Pro a bit with FSGRW it may not be the same (e.g., there were no .rwx metar files initially). I'll keep testing.
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