derekking Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Why does XAVIATION not sell Carenado, FlyJSim or Khamsin products? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shishkabab Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I think (I'm not sure) that XAVIATION and JRollon planes are one and the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGregory Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Why does XAVIATION not sell Carenado, FlyJSim or Khamsin products?How come Mercedes doesn't sell Chevrolet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MdMax Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 How come Mercedes doesn't sell Chevrolet? They also sell Chevrolet:http://www.mercedesoccasiondequebec.com/occasion/Chevrolet.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ointment Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I think (I'm not sure) that XAVIATION and JRollon planes are one and the same.X-Aviation distributes JRollon planes. They are not one and the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ointment Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Why does XAVIATION not sell Carenado, FlyJSim or Khamsin products?Because they don't. Same reason some of your local stores don't sell products other stores do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Oooh, red rag to a bull. Because they don't want to be banned from the Org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Don't believe me? Here's a counter question: How come 99% of content producers that do sell their stuff on X-Aviation are banned on the Org? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ointment Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 How come 99% of content producers that do sell their stuff on X-Aviation are banned on the Org?Good question, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sizziano Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm guessing the 1% is Javier? No answer then? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyWM Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 ??? Hmmm, X-aviation currently offers 14 aircraft, which by the way are examples of some of the BEST aircraft available for X-plane right now. How many do you think they should have? PMDG basically has 5 aircraft with a couple variations on the 777, 737, and 747. Now these are of course the pinnacle of procedual simulation on any home platform, but I'd venture to say that the Saab comes pretty damn close. In fact it offers some features that the add-ons from PMDG don't even have, but it is a simpler aircraft, however. As for the question of why X-aviation people are banned from the org, the answer is quite simple, Nicolas is an unrepentant power tripping jack-ass who views actual professional developers/distributors like X-aviation and others as a threat to his once complete domination of the X-plane ecosystem. As well he should. The recent addition of X-plane and some addons to Steam as well as the continued success of X-plane into moving towards being in the mainsteam means a few more welcome nails in the coffin of the borg. (oh pardon, I mean org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyWM Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes Javier does have his aircraft on the org, but honestly people would be far better off getting his work from X-aviation instead. You have much better customer service and professionalism with X-aviation and you don't have to search that damnable org store every other week to see if you have any updates for your purchases. Javier himself does a good job of checking the forums to address customers needs, but it's pain in the ass to use that website all the time. X-pilot has a much nicer, cleaner design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sizziano Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Is XA really that big of a competitor when compared to the org? Wouldn't seem like it judging by the forum traffic. This all seems like a rather petty state of affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wim1976 Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 For me X-Aviation sells quality products, but at X-Plane.org you have to look carefully or you will end up buying some crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Is XA really that big of a competitor when compared to the org? Wouldn't seem like it judging by the forum traffic. This all seems like a rather petty state of affairs. The forums are supplemental to the community. X-Pilot and XA do not share the same customer database, which is far, far larger at XA. That said, given the fact that we do not really sell the same products, customer database size is rather irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousUser68 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Wouldn't seem like it judging by the forum traffic. Quality instead of quantity, this applies to both X-Pilot and X-Aviation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangar Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) Right now there simply aren't any top notch e-tailers selling X-plane products...so you're taking a chance no matter who you buy XP products from these days. More authors need to start selling their own products and offering their own forum support if they ever expect to build their brand and improve sales. Buying addons for Xplane from resellers is pointless right now as far as both product support and consumer protection is concerned. I see it as cowboys and indians out here, still. The X-plane brand is sorely in need of more good honest pro's in both development and retail. Don't get me wrong...I know alot of these guys see themselves as professionals...and they do help getting the product lines out there...but from what I've read, heard and personally observed myself thus far things are still a ways off from exuding buyer confidence. Here's a tip for authors.... want to jump start your credibility in the flightsim market but don't want to offer a product demo?...go with the Flight1 Wrapper system. Customers can download the product from your own website link and pay thru the Flight1 system during the install so you won't even need your own merchant account and cart system. Customers would also get a 30 day return/refund policy automatically as well with this system in place. You can even setup your own official company support forum at Avsim if you don't want to do it on your own website. You must establish credibility and reliability over time thru professional consistency before you can really build a brand with a following. X-plane devs need to either partner with the FSX pro's that already have the consumer confidence in place...or, you need to start emulating them. This is very, very important for X-plane and the future of it's branding and it's devs. Edited July 30, 2014 by Hangar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Resellers act as a very useful buffer to handle sales, advertising, admin, promotion and first level support. There are not enough hours in the day and cash in the system to be able to remove them. Support in particular chews through a huge amount of time which would leave almost nothing for actual product development. Delegation is key to success in many areas of life. Payware for X-Plane is a niche slice of a niche part of a niche hobby. There just isn't that much money moving through the system. What we need is for customers to accept that they're invested in X-Plane flourishing as much as we, the developers are. They need to stop sitting on the fence and wishing for PMDG/ASN/pet_feature and invest some disposable income. Real life consumes money at a much faster rate than X-Plane. Here in Australia a basic evening out for dinner and a movie for two would set you back around $100. The movie will be quickly forgotten, the dinner will be literally flushed down the toilet within 24 hours, yet people cry over a $30-$60 aircraft that will last them for potentially months of entertainment. Yes, there are some crap products out there, but that's no different to your average department store. There's plenty of useless stuff out there to fill your garage with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangar Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) - Resellers act as a very useful buffer to handle sales, advertising, admin, promotion and first level support.- Support in particular chews through a huge amount of time which would leave almost nothing for actual product development.- Delegation is key to success in many areas of life. - the more BUFFERS you source out to, the further away you get from your customers...and if you DO source out then it better be with someone of impeccable reputation and customer satisfaction. This does not yet exist for X-plane. Better off partnering with a few people and forming your own company with internal support...stop being greedy/lazy...there's too much of that already and you won't do well in the long term. - this goes back to partnering with others in your own company...if you can't be bothered to support your own product then good luck, heh. You really can't make good money in simulation games alone as 1 person. You need a small team, with each person specializing in what they do best...it's the only way to put out high caliber payware products on a regular basis and support them. - nothing wrong with delegating as long as you know how to pick the right person for the right job, and it actually improves service from your customer's point of view. Another point....3rd party devs can't sit around waiting for X-plane to send them a market. This is not how the MSFS community came to be what it is today. It's the MSFS 3rd party devs who actually helped grow the market themselves into what it is now...by working their arses off 7 days/week on product and support for years on end...and doing such a good job that they actually attracted gamers from other genres to come into the flightsim world. X-plane devs/authors have got to do a good enough job to start bringing people over to X-plane. Farming out support is a huge mistake in this regard. Your small team has to be willing/able to work for a couple years making little to no money until you cultivate a following...like any other new startup business. It's tough, but it's exactly how MFSF got so popular over many years for a small niche...its really a handful or so of very talented, smart and very hard working people responsible for creating what you see as the FSX market today (as small as it is). The Flight1 guys, PMDG, DreamFleet, Rob Young of RealAir, Carenado, Richard Harvey of FLY!...they were there at the start...and none of them made money at first. Took them years to pull an audience and build a reputation. And they ALL support/supported their own product/s. Edited July 30, 2014 by Hangar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 go with the Flight1 Wrapper system. Customers can download the product from your own website link and pay thru the Flight1 system during the install so you won't even need your own merchant account and cart system. And for those on Macs? You're dismissing a large chunk of the X-Plane market in your solution here. Your small team has to be willing/able to work for a couple years making little to no money until you cultivate a following...like any other new startup business. It's tough, but it's exactly how MFSF got so popular over many years for a small niche...its really a handful or so of very talented, smart and very hard working people responsible for creating what you see as the FSX market today (as small as it is). The Flight1 guys, PMDG, DreamFleet, Rob Young of RealAir, Carenado, Richard Harvey of FLY!...they were there at the start...and none of them made money at first. Took them years to pull an audience and build a reputation. And they ALL support/supported their own product/s. Can I ask what products you have made to support your claims? Even if a company takes in their own support, they still have dedicated staff to tend to that matter. Speaking for X-Aviation, considering the premise is quality over quantity, I don't agree with your farming out assessment. In fact, it just happens to show how ill informed you are of how intricately tied the devs that work with us (and vice versa) are from the "ground breaking" to the finished product. The support forums exist for a very good reason. You can interact with the developers all day long, and if you even pay attention, you'll see people do just that... As someone who interacts with customers daily in this market, I can tell you first hand majority of people much rather use one channel and point of contact for support as they purchased their product. In the event our support staff cannot answer a question (which is really quite rare), the developer is brought into the support ticket. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 No company on earth has an impeccable reputation and satisfaction record. Name one if you can. As for the rest of the points you raise, we're already living what you describe, we do the best with what we can and we demonstrably build and improve our products over time and release. Look around. It's already happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangar Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) 28 years in sales & marketing...19 of those include project management on the internet. My clients are not poor to say the least, but they are all considered small businesses. I am not posting here to bash or single out any one particular e-tailer or developer. I am merely speaking of the X-plane marketplace in general terms and on the whole. I'm sure there must be some who are doing things right...but they need alot more. My post was not actually meant as professional advice, more like ramblings from an informed observer/advisor and somewhat disgruntled X-plane consumer... but you certainly don't need a degree in theoretical physics (nor 30 years experience in the gaming industry) to see all the mistakes that have been hurting the X-plane branding in general terms. There's plenty of information out there for the taking. Lets put it this way...it is NOT all LR's fault. They are only half the equation in this. Don't think there needs to be changes in your mindset or in the way some of you do business out here? Ask yourselves a question...how long have you been working at this and are you satisfied with your annual sales? If so then you don't need any advice...mine or otherwise. Edited July 30, 2014 by Hangar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyWM Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) So you say that you're an "informed observer/advisor" and yet the very first thing you say in your ramblings is that X-plane has no reputable e-tailers making X-plane addons. Really? Carenado and their sister company Alabeo have almost all of their products available for X-plane, Aerosoft has released a number of payware airports as well as some which come bundled with X-plane and have been a focal supporter for quite a while now, and PMDG has commited to TWO projects in the near future. Then for you to come on this website which is the official X-Aviation forums and pontificate that X-plane has no professional etailers is some nerve. How do you make these informed opinions by the way, do you have actual sales figures from Laminar, Carenado, and X-Aviation to look at? Xplane has been growing by leaps and bounds over the past couple of years and shows no signs of slowing down. When I got version nine, it was far behind FSX in terms of visuals and the add-ons market was basically just free stuff from the org and a few paid addons which were of terrible quality. Now there's a wealth of excellent freeware and professional payware. With Xplane 10 getting better with each new update, I really don't see the issue. Edited July 31, 2014 by JeremyWM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Your small team has to be willing/able to work for a couple years making little to no money until you cultivate a following...like any other new startup business. It's tough, but it's exactly how MFSF got so popular over many years for a small niche...its really a handful or so of very talented, smart and very hard working people responsible for creating what you see as the FSX market today (as small as it is). The Flight1 guys, PMDG, DreamFleet, Rob Young of RealAir, Carenado, Richard Harvey of FLY!...they were there at the start...and none of them made money at first. Took them years to pull an audience and build a reputation. And they ALL support/supported their own product/s. Don't think there needs to be changes in your mindset or in the way some of you do business out here? Ask yourselves a question...how long have you been working at this and are you satisfied with your annual sales? If so then you don't need any advice...mine or otherwise. You seem confused. You're simultaneously arguing both sides of the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sizziano Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 He has to be trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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