Malaysian Airlines 777 crashed over Ukraine

[SwissCyul]

Just got the news of a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200ER that crashed over the Ukraine. MH17 had 280 passengers and 15 crew members on board. The airline has already confirmed that they lost radar contact with the flight just after the 777 passed the Ukrainian border. The flight was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Ukrainian officials are already blaming Russian separatists that they shot they plane down. But they are saying that they don't have the equipment to shoot a plane down from cruising altitude. 

 

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-reportedly-shot-down-near-ukraine-russia-border-1.2709881

 

Just got the first pictures of the crash site(this is nothing for weak-nerved people...)

http://lifenews.ru/news/136811

 

It has been confirmed that MH17 crashed and 295 people got killed. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by SwissCyul

[jettojig]

I just saw this news while eating dinner - needless to say, it put me off a lot. Terrible news for all involved, and it looks like the families of those in the aircraft now have to deal with a likely drawn-out blame game, which won't be nice - My thoughts go out to them.

 

As for Malaysian, this is the second 777 they've lost in 4 months, and while we know that this wasn't their fault, combined with MH370 they're going to have to deal with an incredible amount of bad publicity as well as the totally unexpected loss of two heavy airframes - I feel their future may be very wobbly right now.

 

If the reports of 295 souls on board are correct, that would also make this the 8th deadliest aircraft disaster ever, according to http://www.planecrashinfo.com/worst100.htm 

[eaglewing7]

Ukrainian officials are already blaming separatists that they shot the plane down. But they are saying that they don't have the equipment to shoot a plane down from cruising altitude. 

 

 

If this is indeed the case, which is most likely is, this could turn yet another regional conflict/civil war, into a full blown international conflict.

 

As for the separatists/rebels not having the capability to shoot down aircraft, bullshit.  A few days ago a Ukrainian Air Force Antonov AN-26 was shot down from an altitude of approximately 21,000 feet.  Amazingly enough, the crew somehow managed the force land the aircraft, and survived.

[SwissCyul]

If this is indeed the case, which is most likely is, this could turn yet another regional conflict/civil war, into a full blown international conflict.

 

As for the separatists/rebels not having the capability to shoot down aircraft, bullshit.  A few days ago a Ukrainian Air Force Antonov AN-26 was shot down from an altitude of approximately 21,000 feet.  Amazingly enough, the crew somehow managed the force land the aircraft, and survived.

It looks right now as if they really shot it down with stolen anti-aircraft rockets. The pro-russian separatists stole them from an airbase at the end of june. 

And now the separatists found the flight data recorder and i don't think that they will hand it out to the officials just like that... 

Edited July 17, 2014 by SwissCyul

[jettojig]

It looks right now as if they really shot it down with stolen anti-aircraft rockets. The pro-russian separatists stole them from an airbase at the end of june. 

And now the separatists found the flight data recorder and i don't think that they will hand it out to the officials just like that... 

 

If the separatists have the flight recorder, things could get troublesome. I doubt it will contain anything that may incriminate them if they hand it over though, so perhaps they will be more willing than you would expect - they're already going along with the idea of a ceasefire to allow investigations.

[Goran_M]

 

Doesn't get much more incriminating than that.

[Jim Kallinen]

This means WAR, if Russia protects these separatists and continues to supply them advanced air defense weapons. Like the news reports, this Air defense weapon was

stolen last week, really now, how does this work, separatist controlled region and open border to Russia with many Russian troops still stationed along this border. More

then likely handed over looking for an excuse to roll into the Ukraine.

[Goran_M]

Flying over Ukraine airspace is a very dangerous flight path to take.  Just found out that it's the shortest route and they flew the route to save money on fuel.

Fact or fiction?  Who knows.  But if it's true, is this what price wars are coming to?  Getting them there safely is a close second to making a profit??

[SwissCyul]

Plus there was a airspace restriction under FL310 and a warning was issued that this area is dangerous to fly over. Us Airlines are not allowed to fly over the Ukraine at all and all other airlines are being told to avoid this area. Well, no one paid attention to this warning and now we have the result. It's really a catastrophic event!!! 

[jettojig]

Indeed. I mentioned on another forum that it seems likely the only reason most airlines weren't avoiding the area was simply because of an "it won't affect us" mentality and the fact that it is the most common (and thus probably the fastest/most efficient) route...

[Andyrooc]

Flying over Ukraine airspace is a very dangerous flight path to take.  Just found out that it's the shortest route and they flew the route to save money on fuel.

Fact or fiction?  Who knows.  But if it's true, is this what price wars are coming to?  Getting them there safely is a close second to making a profit??

Most countries - even ones at war, know not to shoot down civilian aircraft. What's a little unusual here is that it would seem that amateurs have got hold of long range anti-aircraft missiles. It is a mistake to lay any blame with the airline. There were plenty of commercial aircraft tracking through that corridor (300 a day). Anyone who walked out the door a looked up would have known this. This is squarely, 100% the fault of the missile operators - whoever they are.

[Goran_M]

Not in any way insinuating this is the airlines fault, but if there's a shark in the water, you stay out of the water.

There were warnings in place for airlines not to fly over this airspace.  

[Vinny003]

Hi, guys,

That is very sad news.

Cheers,

Vincent

[Andyrooc]

Not in any way insinuating this is the airlines fault, but if there's a shark in the water, you stay out of the water.

There were warnings in place for airlines not to fly over this airspace.  

"The International Transport Association said that an initial assessment revealed that the airspace the aircraft was travelling through was 'not subject to restrictions'."

The FAA may have issued a warning to US carriers, which is understandable because (as in many regions), the US has political foes. This was a Malaysian airline. Should all airlines avoid areas that US airlines cannot fly? Seems a bit harsh. The European warnings about the airspace were related to availability of ATC for the area. These jets are very easy to identify, by sight as well as by ADS-B, radar, filed flight plans etc etc. IMHO it is a reasonable expectation to be able to fly through unrestricted territory in such a well defined and well advertised manner without having to worry about this kind of attack.

 

Whatever the case, I have to think it was totally unintended, a tragic mistake or accident. No sane person would have done such a thing intentionally.

[SwissCyul]

The separatists intentions were to shoot down a Ukrainian military transport. Sadly the know-how of those rebels is not really great, so the rocket went into the wrong aircraft. MH17 was travelling over the restricted flight level, so basically at no danger. This accident was caused by the stupidity of those people down there... 

[howardthepilot1999]

Plus there was a airspace restriction under FL310 and a warning was issued that this area is dangerous to fly over. Us Airlines are not allowed to fly over the Ukraine at all and all other airlines are being told to avoid this area. Well, no one paid attention to this warning and now we have the result. It's really a catastrophic event!!!

Flying over 310 is no use at the time. They were suspected of using either an SA-11, SA-17 or SA-20 SAM systems. They can track and destroy targets of up to 25000 meters. Multiply it by three and you get it to feet measurement.

[howardthepilot1999]

Just got the news of a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200ER that crashed over the Ukraine. MH17 had 280 passengers and 15 crew members on board. The airline has already confirmed that they lost radar contact with the flight just after the 777 passed the Ukrainian border. The flight was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Ukrainian officials are already blaming Russian separatists that they shot they plane down. But they are saying that they don't have the equipment to shoot a plane down from cruising altitude. 

 

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-reportedly-shot-down-near-ukraine-russia-border-1.2709881

 

Just got the first pictures of the crash site(this is nothing for weak-nerved people...)

http://lifenews.ru/news/136811

 

It has been confirmed that MH17 crashed and 295 people got killed.

They do, they have SA-9 and SA-11 SAM sites, they can destroy air targets of up to 25000 meters. Everything is in metric as the Russian military uses metric

[eMko]

Not only military. Even in aviation the metric system is used (speeds in kilometers per hour, vertical speed in meters per second ...), a bit confusing. Luckily in European Union we (even the post-communit countries) use the imperial units...

[AnonymousUser68]

Even if it was the wrong target, when you are playing with surface to air missiles capable of reaching targets in excess of 30,000 feet it's not a tragic accident, it's an intentional murder.

 

9M-MRD first flight was on 17 July 1997. 9M-MRD crashed on 17 July 2014 when flying as MH17 exactly 17 years after first flight.

 

Between 2005 and 2008 9M-MRD was painted in the unique "Freedom of Space" livery.

 

Malaysian Airlines cannot be blamed for flying through Ukraine. Almost all flights that leave Dubai heading for Europe head straight up the middle of Iraq where there has been war for years and with recent events involving ISIS does not look like stopping anytime soon. The issue is with the aviation industry thinking that 32,000 feet was clear of the threat posed by these weapons.

[Andyrooc]

Malaysian Airlines cannot be blamed for flying through Ukraine. Almost all flights that leave Dubai heading for Europe head straight up the middle of Iraq where there has been war for years and with recent events involving ISIS does not look like stopping anytime soon. T

Indeed. I have regularly flown over Afghanistan, Iraq and many countries in the midst of civil upheaval, and have not been shot down even once.

[SwissCyul]

At least we don't have to worry about a complex investigation... The cause of the crash is clear so we only need to find the one who pressed the "launch" button... 

[eMko]

Which however won't be that easy... I doubt that somebody will tell you that he is to blame.

[SwissCyul]

That's very true... 

[Pivot]

Scary that these guys can't distinguish between military and civilian aircraft and they have that type of firepower at their discretion.. Gives a whole new meaning to "NO FLY ZONE"..

 

Pivot

[eaglewing7]

The reason why aircraft were regularly transiting this area, is that thus far, only Ukrainian Air Force aircraft had been targeted.  Low level helicopters and fighters were hit using MANPADS (shoulder launched missiles with 10-15,000 foot target ceilings).  The Antonov's that have been hit or shot down recently, were flying in excess of 20,000 feet, so they were definitely hit by missiles launched from BUK launchers, which have a target ceiling of 70,000 feet.

 

Another reason for transiting the area, is that ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, had declared that the risk posed to civilian aircraft was low to non-existent, because the rebels were only targeting military aircraft.  Of course, all it takes is one civilian aircraft to be misidentified as a military aircraft, and suddenly that airspace is no longer safe.

 

Anyone who can misidentify a Boeing 777, as being an Antonov AN-26, shouldn't be using a SAM to begin with.