rich0 Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'm not Austin or Ben Supnik but... there will not be any kind upgrade from v10. As was not such thing from v9 to v10. Apologies then. For some reason I thought there was a v9-10 upgrade period (ie people who bought v9 late in the cycle get a discount on v10). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfighter Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 Apologies then. For some reason I thought there was a v9-10 upgrade period (ie people who bought v9 late in the cycle get a discount on v10). No need to apologies! Trying to inform and not judge! Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ointment Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 For some reason I thought there was a v9-10 upgrade period (ie people who bought v9 late in the cycle get a discount on v10). I don't think Laminar has ever offered anything like this. I've only been around since V8, but I didn't see any kind of special offer when V9 or V10 came out. Each version has been treated as a "new" product and not an upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kallinen Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 Have had over a dozen Steam games installed and for some reason it not matter computer I had it would crash them when they all decided to update at thesame time. It would totally lock me out and blue screen everytime I used Steam. Decided it was not worth what I paid for the stupid games to keep crappingout my computer, and no, I don`t use cheap computers either. So all the Steam lovers out there, you can keep your Steam, I will not even think about it, Now that Ben has verified I have nothing to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_pig Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Stop and consider the logistics of this for a minute... Multiple third party X-P vendors, all with different data disclosure policies and laws that may completely prevent any sharing of customer details with Laminar. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of existing customers... And probably a steam purchase percentage slice to pay Valve to take into account as well...It could be done, maybe have some sort of randomly generated code that could only be used once and is shown upon starting the sim with the disk inserted, and then once the game is registered on steam it will then no longer show a code (and then if the code isn't used on the same IP address it came from it becomes invalid as well)EDIT: just saw bens post so nvm, still a interesting concept though Edited July 10, 2014 by Flying_pig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strider Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 I read it before I replied. Post #16 makes no mention of upgrade pricing - only that all updates to v10 would be free. I was referring to any preferential pricing when upgrading to v11, assuming there is any. That is, if one customer buys X-Plane v10 on Aug 1st on DVD, and another buys it on Steam, and v11 comes out, would they both have the same pricing to upgrade to v11? I appreciate that nobody can say when that will be, or what customers will qualify for upgrade pricing (maybe only those ordering v10 after a certain date), but I just want to understand if Steam will get the same treatment. I don't think I've ever seen upgrade pricing on Steam, so I wasn't sure if their store supported this. Otherwise, I consider Steam a major convenience! V11 is probably years away still. Have you heard different ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joandreas Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 So will x aviation products like saab 340 be sold there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONDR4.cz Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 I'm a big fan of Steam but if there's one thing that would deter me from using it in this case, it would be the inability to install the sim to a location other than my Steam folder. For various reasons, I like to keep my X-Plane installation on a separate harddrive. With Steam, I'd be forced to install it to my Steam directory on my main drive, which is definitely not big enough to hold my 107GB X-Plane folder (and that is just Europe + some addons). But all in all, I think that going to Steam is not just a great move - it's a necessary one, because Dovetail Games (the guys behind the Train Simulator) announced yesterday that they made a licensing deal with MS and will continue the development of FSX, which is coming to Steam, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabnz1 Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 You do have the option to install on another hard drive - I do it all the time with Steam. I have some games on one drive and a few on another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) joandreas, on 10 Jul 2014 - 9:30 PM, said:So will x aviation products like saab 340 be sold there. At this point in time it seems unlikely. I've been doing some basic research, reading license terms, etc. Here's an excerpt from the license agreement: B. Content Uploaded to the Steam Workshop Some games or applications available on Steam ("Workshop-Enabled Apps") allow you to create User Generated Content based on or using the Workshop-Enabled App, and to submit that User Generated Content (a “Workshop Contribution”) to one or more Steam Workshop web pages. Workshop Contributions can be viewed by the Steam community, and for some categories of Workshop Contributions users may be able to interact with, download or purchase the Workshop Contribution. In some cases, Workshop Contributions may be considered for incorporation by Valve or a third-party developer into a game or into a Subscription Marketplace. You understand and agree that Valve is not obligated to use, distribute, or continue to distribute copies of any Workshop Contribution and reserves the right, but not the obligation, to restrict or remove Workshop Contributions for any reason. Specific Workshop-Enabled Apps or Workshop web pages may contain special terms (“App-Specific Terms”) that supplement or change the terms set out in this Section. In particular, where Workshop Contributions are distributed for a fee, App-Specific Terms will address how revenue may be shared. Unless otherwise specified in App-Specific Terms (if any), the following general rules apply to Workshop Contributions. Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.Notwithstanding the license described in Section 6.A., Valve will only have the right to modify or create derivative works from your Workshop Contribution in the following cases: (a) Valve may make modifications necessary to make your Contribution compatible with Steam and the Workshop functionality or user interface, and ( Valve or the applicable developer may make modifications to Workshop Contributions that are accepted for in-Application distribution as it deems necessary or desirable to enhance gameplay.You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and ( your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution. Except where otherwise provided in App-Specific Terms, you agree that Valve’s consideration of your Workshop Contribution is your full compensation, and you are not entitled to any other rights or compensation in connection with the rights granted to Valve and to other Subscribers. Emphasis added by me on sections of concern... it's a very odd clause. I understand that it only applies _if_ content were to be removed from the Workshop section, but it's still murky given that the content we produce would be very clearly "used in-game". Combine that with the fact that we have our own DRM system and I haven't found any documentation on how to integrate a steam DRM system into Gizmo64... Best answer I can give at this time is "Seems unlikely." Steam should be great for Laminar but for third parties it could be a very mixed bag. I also think the customer reaction of people that are used to AAA games with $40 million dollar budgets will be mixed at best. edit: added link to complete license document:http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ Edited July 10, 2014 by Ben Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joandreas Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 That license is only for workshop items not payware content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 If you can provide me with more relevant docs I'd love to see them. I've used steam a little bit as a player, it's a great service. It'd be great to integrate with it, for a pile of reasons. Steam Workshop appears to be a / the method to integrate third party content that is both free and payware from what I've been reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joandreas Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 downloadable content is not in steam workshop and is sold at game page. but ask laminaer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) --- forum killed my post ----- blah. Edited July 10, 2014 by Ben Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich0 Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 Does Steam actually support 3rd-party "DLC"? Typically DLC is sold through the original game's store page/etc. I guess Laminar could basically sponsor 3rd-party content, but I'm not sure that arrangement works well for everybody. Most of the AAA game world doesn't have a concept of 3rd-party paid add-ons. You typically have the original game and its add-ons sold by the vendor, and a free mod community (which the workshop is designed to augment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 DayZ "Mod" has a steam Game page.http://store.steampowered.com/app/224580/ More reading reveals that we would need to submit to the Greenlight process for each and every aircraft.My game is a mod – can I still submit it to Steam Greenlight?Yes, you can submit your mod to Steam Greenlight, but in order to be launched on Steam you will need to have a full engine license in place for your game. If you have a Source Engine mod, you can learn more here. For other engines you will need to work with them directly. I also found some interesting info regarding existing customers: (determining exactly who is a legit existing customer is a problem that remains to be solved though...) If my game is accepted through Steam Greenlight, can I give my previous customers keys for the Steam version?Once your game is accepted for distribution on Steam, we will give you as many keys for your game as you want at no cost. Revenue split details are not publicly available. More info on greenlight process here:http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=765§ion=faq In summary: for third parties being available on steam is a bit of a complex mess... :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONDR4.cz Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 You do have the option to install on another hard drive - I do it all the time with Steam. I have some games on one drive and a few on another OK, I feel really stupid now - the options is there, indeed. That kinda sorts it out, then . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joandreas Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/Will not be hard to ask laminaer ressarch i guess for something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich0 Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/Will not be hard to ask laminaer ressarch i guess for something similar. Sure, but that probably entails having add-on publishers go through them. Laminar basically becomes the publisher which probably is baggage for them, and having to work with them is baggage for everybody else. Not to say that it couldn't work, but it is different from the we-take-care-of-the-engine/api-anything-else-goes approach they have today. Does Train Simulator let users build/install their own routes/trains/etc, much as FSX and X-Plane both do? I think a big part of what killed MS Flight was the fact that it was a closed environment - if you wanted to add a region or plane you had to buy it from MS at $20 each or whatever. Sure, the gamification was an issue for many, but there is no reason that you couldn't have realistic add-ons (free or commercial), as long as the underlying engine supported navaids, ATC, etc. The idea of either flying a 747 over an ocean world between two islands (brings back memories of the 80s), or buying $5000 worth of add-ons to have VFR scenery of a great circle route is a non-starter for anybody serious. (Apologies - I realize this is drifting in topic.) Back to the point - if Train Simulator doesn't allow users to add their own routes/etc, then that is why there is a huge library of DLC in Steam. That is their whole business model, like selling Guitar Hero songs for $5 each. There is no way that would work for X-Plane, and Laminar obviously knows that. It would be better if 3rd parties had the option of selling through steam and still having it work seamlessly with X-Plane. That could be a real benefit to everybody, but I'm not sure about technical issues (presumably everything goes in its own directory and X-Plane would need a mechanism to load the right stuff at the same time - probably no more big self-contained X-Plane directory). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 So will x aviation products like saab 340 be sold there. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryCYUL Posted July 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 yes Does Train Simulator let users build/install their own routes/trains/etc, much as FSX and X-Plane both do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris k Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) TrainSimulator does allow users to upload their own creations BUT:It's part of the "Steam Workshop" hooks. It's not part of the main game or existing pay ware DLC system. It's only for "free" files. There's no payment or DRM enforcement method for "true" 3rd party developers to sell an add on Product via Steam Workshop. It's nebulous as to "who owns" the workshop material. As per Ben R's post above - it appears that valve can exercise some kind of rights over your creation.If an end user wants to charge for his creation, They need to turn it into an official DLC by getting the original game developer to publish it.... Thus opening up a giant can if worms in terms if revenue and support. The Canadian Rockies DLC for TrainSimulator is a prime example of this. It wasn't developed by the game publisher at all... It was done by a 3rd party in isolation, but had to be published (and thus sold) as a DLC. All revenue goes to the original game developer directly - and not the company who actually developed the Add-on content. Edited July 11, 2014 by chris k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny003 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hi, HarryCYUL!What?! DC-3 and Saab340 on steam?! No, I don't think so!! Cheers, Vincent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joandreas Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) So if heinz dreamliner comes in store. michael chang one can be removed.And mac/linux software but that willl be another question. Edited July 11, 2014 by joandreas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVon Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Well, as a loyal X-Plane user since v. 2.5.......X-Plane, you were a good friend. I won't speak for the professional community of persons using X-Plane (flight schools & instructors, aerospace corporations, government agencies, etc.), but I'd have issues knowing that my software that I use can be purchased from steam, right along side with (as another poster here pointed out), violent, gore filled GAMES. Can you imagine the following conversation?: Student in NTPS (National Test Pilot School): WOW, this sim is GREAT! What's it called?! IP: X-Plane! Student: Could I get this for MY computer? IP: Uhhhh, yeeeaaah. Student: How? IP: (Putting his head down and trying not to say it too loud).....Steam. Student: Oh. All THIS coming at a time when X-Plane was attracting more and more 3rd party developers, especially those that have been well established in the MSFS world. The only saving grace will be that XP will be available on disk as well, which I understand they said it will.....but for how long? I work away from home in the Gulf of Mexico, and am gone for days, if not WEEKS at a time, with NO INTERNET! if and when the day comes DVD and / or dongle is dropped from the lineup (and I can see that coming), how is someone with no internet connection available supposed to enjoy his software that his computer demands to be connected to steam on? I remember a few years back, Austin gloating how MS listed their MSFS under the "games" section on their own website. How different is this now for X-Plane? Chris Edited July 11, 2014 by ChrisVon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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