Poor Frame Rates and uninstall - requires update urgently

[Bluebotle]

I've uninstalled Skymaxx

Details......

Before Skymaxx, I ran X-plane on very high settings with default clouds:-

Texture Res - Extreme

Res - Highest res on iMac 27"

HDR - Off

Pixel lights - On

Gritty Textures - On

Buildings - Tons

Trees - Sparse

AA - off

Anisotropic - 8x

World Detail - High

Airport Detail - Extreme

Cloud Puffs - 100%

iMac 27" (Late 2013)

3.5ghz i7

8Gb Ram

1Tb Fusion Drive

GTX780MX 4Gb video card

X-Plane 10 Global

With the settings and system above, I can run X-Plane at 25+ FPS without fail. No stutters, weather updates are smooth, nice transition between cloud layers and distant clouds. When I install Skymaxx, the FPS is wild, it goes from 2FPS upto 19 FPS, Stutters and practically stops the sim on updates. I have everything on the Skymaxx set to the lowest possible setting i.e off or far to the left sliders or number 1 option.

On the website, it clearly says there is an improvement in frame rates above default setting, I've not seen this anywhere in my experience and if that means lowering my sim settings then yes you will get better frame rates much like the default would. I have to say, Skymaxx Pro is broke, looking foward to an urgent update.

Seems harsh I know but I'm sick of developers selling products that don't work as advertised and expect customers to use there hard earned money to fund the beta testing and future development. Why state it increases frame rates when it doesn't, quite the opposite and it's not just me either having searched the forums is various places.

I've read there is a memory leak in the program, it may explain the problems people are having, these are fundamental problems that should be eliminated before it is sold, it's old school that ensuring memory leaks are plugged. I wouldn't buy a car with a leaking fuel tank, that's what I've done here. It's not on, customers expect better than this.

I want to give the developers a chance to rectify this, fix the memory leak, improve the FPS and transition updates and work towards a better product, it after all is very good at representing the sky, some spectacular views but I'm very disappointed with my purchase so far. You have got to get an update out ASAP.

Cheers

Lee

[Cameron]

Seems harsh I know but I'm sick of developers selling products that don't work as advertised and expect customers to use there hard earned money to fund the beta testing and future development. Why state it increases frame rates when it doesn't, quite the opposite and it's not just me either having searched the forums is various places.

 

Let's quote the product page, shall we?

In fact, most of our test team showed that when running default X-Plane 10 clouds vs. SkyMaxx Pro clouds, SkyMaxx Pro had better frame rates over the default X-Plane 10 clouds!

 

Where exactly did you see this as definitively applicable to you? Have a read around about SkyMaxx Pro and you'll quickly find that in almost all cases the statement holds true for our customers as well. It simply is a statement that explains the result to an overwhelming majority of people.

 

 

I have to say, Skymaxx Pro is broke, looking foward to an urgent update.

 

It's far from broke.

 

 

I've read there is a memory leak in the program, it may explain the problems people are having, these are fundamental problems that should be eliminated before it is sold, it's old school that ensuring memory leaks are plugged. I wouldn't buy a car with a leaking fuel tank, that's what I've done here. It's not on, customers expect better than this.

 

The memory leak is VERY slow moving. It is NOT something to tank performance.

 

I personally run SMP on a lesser MBP setup than you (750M 2048MB) on a TB display. Attaining 30 fps with the setup is quite simple. It may be time for you to consider a fresh demo install of X-Plane with only SMP in it and see what happens there. If your performance is better in the demo, then you can be assured that there is likely something else playing "fun" here.

[xplaneorgisdumb]

set cloud puffs to 10% instead of 100 - they seem to be not active when skymaxx pro is running, and it gives a little bit more fps then

[chris k]

The only time I drop below 19 FPS is when I exhaust my VRAM on my video card - Like Cameron, I have a much lesser system than your iMac/GTX780. If you drop to 2FPS you are clearly swapping VRAM. - Is Texture compression on? (You can easily over-fill a 4gb card with 'native' texture resolutions and no compression)

 

 

Seems harsh I know but I'm sick of developers selling products that don't work as advertised

 

It does work as advertised for me. The statement is true.

 

 use there hard earned money to fund the beta testing and future development.

 

 

Rewarding people like John et al for spending their hard-earned time to develop things for the rest of us (who don't have the time to do it) - I don't think anyone in the entire X-Plane community does development as their primary source of income at all.

 

i.e. the people developing this program is not some "faceless corporation" trying to scam you....they are real people, who are on this very forum, who are very intent on providing an excellent add-on. I don't see *any* level of "sell it and we'll fix it later" attitude going on here - I see quite a professionally packaged product, with the authors who take the time to respond, to enhance, and support their product. I don't think anyone's getting rich here.

 

BTW the same guys have spent a lot of time in the community developing numerous free add-ons for us over the years - this is one of their first forays into a paid development model. They deserve to be rewarded for taking a good stab at fixing the XP10 cloud system, once and for all... and as mentioned, it does work (and works very well) - but for some reason, not for you.

 

use there hard earned money

 

Wait a sec... $40? ​Are you serious? All this over $40? 

 

 

If this is indeed the case, I don't know how you afforded a 27" 2013 Haswell iMac. Wow... I just re-read your computer. Thats a $3000 system.... *that* is the definition of hard-earned cash - $3000. Not $40. I suppose you also know that the TDP limits in your iMac cooling prevent the i7-4770 in your machine from turbo-ing up for more than a few minutes right? (Meaning, you paid $3000 for a computer that does not operate at the turbo-speeds advertised by apple - By the same logic, I think you should be badmouthing apple on the forums and be demanding a refund from Apple too.... since that was a $3000 mistake, not a $40 one.)

 

​Anyways, it appears that it just doesn't work for you.  No need to badmouth - since it obviously does work for many many others.

 

And - You could always ask for a refund if this is a special circumstance - and you can choose to do it in a classy manner. 

Edited January 11, 2014 by chris k

[Ben Russell]

Ford recalling 465,000 2013 models to check for fuel tank leaks

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/03/us-autos-ford-recall-idUSBRE9520LA20130603

[Bluebotle]

Guys, I'm a very frustrated customer who has spent money on a product, if it's not working for me, then I'm entiltiled to blow off some steam in a support forum for the product. I actually gave this a very good review on the product web page so I'm not trying to bad mouth the enhancement. Your correct £40 isn't that much, but it's still hard earned money! As too was the purchase on my new iMac.

I apologise for the original post, I was expecting the customer services team to support me and try and work out a solution. If I bought a ripped new sofa, I'd be pretty annoyed and would for certain go into the shop and have a good go at them! nothing personal, it's just what most people would do, I'm not after a refund, I need support or an update. You buy a product, if it's faulty or doesn't appear (it may be my settings?) to work as intended then they should then try and support me to fix the issue, the point is, I don't believe there is anything they can do to improve my experience without an update, I have tried every conceivable setting over the past week with no improvement. I was just letting off some steam. Please accept my apologies.

Lee

[Bluebotle]

"In fact, most of our test team showed that when running default X-Plane 10 clouds vs. SkyMaxx Pro clouds, SkyMaxx Pro had better frame rates over the default X-Plane 10 clouds!"

BTW: This reads to me that Skymaxx has an improved Frame Rate over Default Clouds.

[Cameron]

BTW: This reads to me that Skymaxx has an improved Frame Rate over Default Clouds.

 

How do you get that? It reads to me: Most of, almost all, majority, not all...but most. Your mileage may vary, but I'd say (as have others here) that the statement holds true for an overwhelming majority (and also clearly on the very reviews section you speak of).

 

The wording is very clear. You're trying to interpret it as "SkyMaxx Pro guarantees you 100%, without doubt, improvement in FPS over default"...it doesn't say that.

[Bluebotle]

It's just how I interpreted it. I now understand it means providing you have the same setting as the testers and have the same system set up you will see an improved frame rate over default clouds.

From this it sounds like I'll never achieve an improved frame rate then?

[Ben Russell]

The update to resolve this memory leak you spoke of IS coming.

 

Please bear in mind the time of year, we all have families, it is not your exclusive right to enjoy their time.

 

I'm sorry that this impedes your enjoyment of your product but I can assure you that I suffer the same things at this time of year for much the same items.

 

That said, it's now the second week of the new year. Perhaps the first real business week for many coming back online. The bug has been found, the fix has been written. We're now in the final stages of QA and making the update worth everyones time. I try to address multiple issues with each plugin update, I hope you can see the value in that.

 

The real world is by no means perfect anywhere you look. It's not an excuse to do a tardy job, it's an observation that best effort is necessarily a human thing and subject to failure, no matter your budget, team size, or brand name.

 

A fix exists and will be offered as soon as possible.

(This is public information posted in the relevant thread..)

 

Please monitor the forums for news and updates.

Alternatively; an email will be sent to your registered address when an official update installer is available.

 

Thank you for your patience and support.

[Cameron]

It's just how I interpreted it. I now understand it means providing you have the same setting as the testers and have the same system set up you will see an improved frame rate over default clouds.

 

This makes no sense at all. That would imply that our customers reporting such improvements have the same exact setup as we do. Probability: Very unlikely.

[Bluebotle]

The update to resolve this IS coming.

 

Please bear in mind the time of year, we all have families, it is not your exclusive right to enjoy their time.

 

I'm sorry that this impedes your enjoyment of your product but I can assure you that I suffer the same things at this time of year for much the same items.

 

That said, it's now the second week of the new year. Perhaps the first real business week for many coming back online. The bug has been found, the fix has been written. We're now in the final stages of QA and making the update worth everyones time. I try to address multiple issues with each plugin update, I hope you can see the value in that.

 

The real world is by no means perfect anywhere you look. It's not an excuse to do a tardy job, it's an observation that best effort is necessarily a human thing and subject to failure, no matter your budget, team size, or brand name.

 

A fix exists and will be offered as soon as possible.

(This is public information posted in the relevant thread..)

 

Please monitor the forums for news and updates.

Alternatively; an email will be sent to your registered address when an official update installer is available.

 

Thank you for your patience and support.

Thanks Ben, I appreciate your feedback, I like the product, I'm just disappointed at the moment. Im really looking forward to the update and understand the time constraints.

All, let me apologise again, it's easy to come across harsh in text when in person it would be a different matter. Coupled with a frustration the situation is worse. If I have written words or paragraphs above that you consider an attack at the product then I'm very sorry for this. I want this too work, it looks amazing when it does, it wouldn't be so bad if the stutters went or the fluctuations in frame rate. I can accept a drop in a few FPS for the extra visuals but at the moment it's on the shelf until improvements are made.

Kind Regards

Lee

[xplaneorgisdumb]

Well, I just want to say my 2 cents here: 40 $ is pretty expensive for a "sky enhancement" (since the whole product x-plane is "just" 60 $), and to be honest Skies and Clouds are just a small part of the sim. Single planes cost up to 80 $ and most of them are not worth the price. Some airports cost 30 $, and to be honest, "just" for flying there 3 times a week its too expensive. But hey, I also bought my home-airport for 29 $.

 

So for the 40 $ I expected something magic, revolutionary stuff, and got good looking clouds with transition problems and small stutters.

 

So well - my thoughts are: OK, it was not worth 40 $. Money is gone, but on the other hand I know pretty good how things can develop and that its almost not possible for the developers to test the software on all available combinations of hardware, nor knowing how dumb some customers are setting all sliders to max while having a hardware thats older than me.

 

It would be a bigger problem if the developers stop there support and stop doing updates. But hey, they are working on it. So come on - next time 20 $ and everything is ok. We all did expect a better product for the price and on the other hand we are all able to learn. Next time I will wait before I buy, and its pretty sure that the products will become better in the future.

[Cameron]

Well, I just want to say my 2 cents here: 40 $ is pretty expensive for a "sky enhancement" (since the whole product x-plane is "just" 60 $), and to be honest Skies and Clouds are just a small part of the sim. Single planes cost up to 80 $ and most of them are not worth the price. Some airports cost 30 $, and to be honest, "just" for flying there 3 times a week its too expensive. But hey, I also bought my home-airport for 29 $.

 

 

I know a lot of flight schools and people that would love to disagree with you.

 

Overall you sound like a tough person to satisfy to begin with. No offense, but when you knock everything you buy it sounds like a matter of priorities are offset and a grain of salt to your word is to be taken.

 

We all did expect a better product for the price and on the other hand we are all able to learn.

 

Um, no. The word "all" implies everyone. This is about as far off a statement as they come. You are in an underwhelming minority of people making such noise...trust me. Please take care in how you word things.

[xplaneorgisdumb]

Language-Barrier-Alert

 

What I meant is when you buy a tyre for a car that is worth 20000 $, the tires dont cost 60 % of 20000. Although you need them to drive. Don´t get me wrong at this point. Skymaxx Pro is an enhancement for x-plane, no question. But I am not sure If I will pay again 40 $ for it.

[JohnMAXX]

Language-Barrier-Alert

 

What I meant is when you buy a tyre for a car that is worth 20000 $, the tires dont cost 60 % of 20000. Although you need them to drive. Don´t get me wrong at this point. Skymaxx Pro is an enhancement for x-plane, no question. But I am not sure If I will pay again 40 $ for it.

Your logic is flawed......

 

Since you are an expert at add-on development and marketing I suggest you get involved somehow to show us greedy profiteers how it is done....

[Cameron]

What I meant is when you buy a tyre for a car that is worth 20000 $, the tires dont cost 60 % of 20000. Although you need them to drive. Don´t get me wrong at this point. Skymaxx Pro is an enhancement for x-plane, no question. But I am not sure If I will pay again 40 $ for it.

 

I know people who wouldn't pay Apple's or Bose's premiums. I also know an overwhelming amount who would.

 

You can't use simple percentage points as a way to gauge costs of an add-on. If that's how you apply logic, a reality check is in order. Supply and demand play a very large role in economics. Laminar's reach of people who buy the sim JUST for the sim without add-on's allows them an afforded opportunity to lower the cost of the sim. I remember when X-Plane was $299 prior to its growth spurt, and I suppose all the MSFS developers have it wrong now too. Heck, I can buy MSFS X for $19.99! Someone better write in to REX and PMDG about their deceptive, greedy profiteering quickly!

[JohnMAXX]

I think the username says it all Cameron,  we have someone here who likes to poke whenever they can....

 

 

Back to Lee,  I think you need to really look into your X-Plane install and try to figure out whats going on.   Your initial impressions are way out of line with the vast majority of users of SMP.  Keep in mind also we are always available to help out, but you will attract more bees with honey over vinegar.....

[sundog]

To be constructive, it's most likely that you are running out of memory on your video card if you're experiencing a performance loss with SkyMaxx Pro relative to running with equivalent default cloud settings. SkyMaxx Pro uploads new cirrus textures and the geometry for all those clouds to your video card, and if you were already running close to the limit due to other add-ons and custom scenery, it's always possible that SkyMaxx Pro's resources is just the straw that breaks the camel's back on some systems. The very small percentage of users reporting this sort of thing is consistent with this theory. If you start off with your VRAM almost exhausted, install SkyMaxx Pro, and that pushes your system over the edge - there's not a whole lot we can do about that. You might try reducing the settings in Skymaxx Pro for cloud draw distance and detail, and selecting the low resolution cirrus texture, to reduce its memory footprint and reduce the amount of work SMP needs to do each frame. 

 

I feel the need to respond to some of the other statements in this thread....

 

SkyMaxx Pro is in fact stable as a rock. It is not some buggy piece of software released prematurely. SkyMaxx Pro involves close to 100,000 lines of C++ code, and it did undergo beta testing over a lengthy period on multiple systems and platforms prior to its 1.0 release. The fact that you don't see lots of complaints about SMP crashing, despite the huge variety of systems running it in the wild, speaks to the QA that was done. Instead, the feedback you do see is largely aesthetic and related to performance on a handful of systems.

 

We've been extremely responsive to feedback from the community. SkyMaxx Pro 1.0 did in fact perform better than default clouds on most systems we tested it on, as the product description claims, but user feedback was that it still wasn't fast enough for some of our customers. So, we hunkered down, got some help from Laminar, and issued version 1.1 within a couple of weeks which pretty much doubled performance. Then, we started seeing a few complaints about the slight delay that happens when new weather conditions come in from X-Plane while running with real weather on. So, we hunkered down and found a way to make handling weather updates four times faster in version 1.2. User feedback on 1.2 indicated that it made the delay almost un-noticable for most users, which is pretty remarkable considering SMP needs to re-generate thousands of new clouds when new cloud conditions come in. If this is still unacceptable to you as a user, you can reduce the cloud draw distance and detail settings to make this delay smaller. We also got some reports of a slow memory leak (which is outside of SMP itself) affecting long-haul flights on some systems, and a fix for that is imminent in 1.3.

 

I think perhaps we've been TOO responsive with updates to SMP, as it seems to create the impression that there have been lots of bugs that we needed to urgently address. Rather, we've just been eager to implement improvements suggested by the community.

 

So, if you're reading this thread trying to make a purchase decision about SMP - know that it's providing an upgraded visual representation of the sky and clouds in X-Plane with increased performance and great stability for the vast majority of our customers. In the unlikely event that you run into trouble, the developers are here and act in response to any problems we see reported.

[PierreLvx]

I was fortunate enough to be on the beta team, and I can vouch for the progress Frank and John, with the help of Cameron, made over the past few weeks. The early beta I got was already stunning, and I am not just talking about the wow effect : it was already very solid for a beta, because the technology Frank had been implementing was proven. I experienced one crash in hours of testing, and torture testing SkyMaxx, and excellent frames from beginning to end. With the latest updates, my fps kept increasing. Even on an aging Mac Book Pro.

 

The whole SkyMaxx crew is doing an incredible job refining an already excellent piece of software. But they can't do much about users with suborbital-high expectations.

[redpiper]

"In fact, most of our test team showed that when running default X-Plane 10 clouds vs. SkyMaxx Pro clouds, SkyMaxx Pro had better frame rates over the default X-Plane 10 clouds!"

BTW: This reads to me that Skymaxx has an improved Frame Rate over Default Clouds.

I'm having a very difficult time visualizing 25+ fps with 100% puffs on default clouds. Clouds are the biggest killer of fps in X-Plane IMO.

My system:     i7 2600k @4.4ghz

                       32gb Gskill Ripjaws 1866 ram

                       MSI GTX680 4gb ddr5

I couldn't come close to to that frame rate and I'm teaked as close as you can get to running X-Plane at peak performance. When I built my machine I did it specifically for running flight sims and X-Plane10 was #1 on that list. I've tested mine withh 100% clouds before Sky-MAXX was an option and My PC hit a brick wall. We're talking maybe 5 fps at best.

[Bluebotle]

I'm having a very difficult time visualizing 25+ fps with 100% puffs on default clouds. Clouds are the biggest killer of fps in X-Plane IMO.

My system:     i7 2600k @4.4ghz

                       32gb Gskill Ripjaws 1866 ram

                       MSI GTX680 4gb ddr5

I couldn't come close to to that frame rate and I'm teaked as close as you can get to running X-Plane at peak performance. When I built my machine I did it specifically for running flight sims and X-Plane10 was #1 on that list. I've tested mine withh 100% clouds before Sky-MAXX was an option and My PC hit a brick wall. We're talking maybe 5 fps at best.

I'll have to post a picture to demonstrate my performance. I can honestly say it does what i stated, the new iMac is very good.

I've calmed down now from this morning and wish everyone and this product a healthy future. To try and prevent further posts or ill feeling, can this thread be closed and removed?

Cheers lee

[Cameron]

Closed per request.