Any news?

[MaidenFan]

Plane, I always take care of costummers.... or better say good opinions and positive feedback to learn more and do things better.

About the CRJ? Do you know how many times I have through to the dustbin t-Shirts because eating the borders, because still not ending the plane?

If the plane where on beta Stage I would announce... Still is close to beta, but not on there.

Not going to announce anything new until I have something to announce. Yes I made the mistake to announce to everyone 2 years ago, but that let me do and know other people to help me with this project. The bad thing about that, is not always more people means quick work.

You have to adapt to team working and you know, we are working free.. on this plane. The Main programmer for example hasn't received any money still for this plane (me neither) and for sure he has things to pay, so he has to search for a work that takes his time.

That is the main reason of the delay.

But the good news is still is on development. I don't know when it will be released. I hope the sooner we can.. and the better we can. But that is a good news.. because you all don't know how many times this project has been close to be cancelled.

You know.. perfection is the first step to failure.. and try to make all costumers happy is the second step to failure.

I am learning all of that since I sold the Javelin, and now I am learning a lot on the CRJ.

Well.. anyway.. be patience and with your support maybe one day we will have the plane out. Hope sooner than later.

Thanks!

Javier Rollon

Thanks for the "news" on the CRJ.

Whatever you do, don't cancel this plane. I don't know if I could handle that without kiling myself.

Happy flying. hehe

[Planes]

An astronaut, you say... Have you tried this one? http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/home.php

The awesomeness of this freeware sim is so high, that you'll be sucked into it in no time. The learning curve is so steep, that before you start performing at a satisfactory level, there will be CRJ v3.0 already released. Time in Orbiter runs so "differently", I believe it has something to do with Einstein's theory...

Yeah Lis, it's an awesome space simulator. I used to play it when the old version was out, I see they launched a new one. I still have it installed but I rarely open it up. Thanks for remembering me though, I think I'll give it a go!

[Granados]

(...)

But the good news is still is on development. I don't know when it will be released. I hope the sooner we can.. and the better we can.(...)

After reading in this thread since a few months my 5 cents. I think it doesn´t have to be that perfect in the beginning. Just put a unfinished beta on the net in the next weeks and i´m sure a lot of people will help you with feedback. x-plane community is waiting for projects like this since centuries

[MaidenFan]

That actually wouldn't be a very bad idea (provided that all basic instruments work.) If you're like me then you don't care a whole lot to use the fancy navigation stuff. Heck, I cant' even use the basic Garmin yet!!! You could sell the plane as it is and make your well earned money that you've been waiting for over two years to get while the community gets a really nice beta version. The rest of the programming could be added in a future update. It would be cool to get a "bug free" simulation, but it may take another year or so to achieve that. Well.....that was my commentary. I hope you guys don't take this offensively as that is not my intention. I just want to share my opinion. Fuss at me if you'd like to!!!!

[Cameron]

The answer is "No."

Beta testing and feedback is the least of our worries. We know what we need to do.

[Maxime]

Guys, chill on the whole "CRJ delay talk".

Javier, Anton, Cameron, and a whole lot of other people are working hard to get this project out.

They want a quality product, not a rushed one.

Thanks,

Maxime

[Granados]

ok thats fine then. but i can understand that its not satisfying to talk about potatoes only. maybe you should give us a chance to eat them in future ^^

[MaidenFan]

ok thats fine then. but i can understand that its not satisfying to talk about potatoes only. maybe you should give us a chance to eat them in future ^^

All this project has been is talk. Don t get me wrong; it s a beautiful sim but people have waited too long now and there  hasn't been anything to try out.

[Oliver]

ok thats fine then. but i can understand that its not satisfying to talk about potatoes only. maybe you should give us a chance to eat them in future ^^

All this project has been is talk. Don t get me wrong; it s a beautiful sim but people have waited too long now and there  hasn't been anything to try out.

Do you want a rushed product or a fully functional complete one?

[Cameron]

ok thats fine then. but i can understand that its not satisfying to talk about potatoes only. maybe you should give us a chance to eat them in future ^^

All this project has been is talk. Don t get me wrong; it s a beautiful sim but people have waited too long now and there  hasn't been anything to try out.

You're right. We should just scrap the project. What do you say? Lose the talk, stop the development, and let life go on?

...or would you rather keep the talk and someday have it?

This argument is old, guys. We're not releasing a beta. We're not releasing an unfinished product, and its finished when we say it's finished. That's all there is to it.

[RealScenery]

All of the X-Aviation projects are very time-intensive. If you have a project with a long development cycle, like the CRJ, you can consider doing these things:

1. Add more developers.

2. Remove functionality.

3. Extend the delivery date.

4. Put the project on hold.

5. Scrap the project.

Each development team has to make a decision as to how they will approach their project. Simply adding more people can often add more time to a project due to the overhead of coordinating everyone's activities - kind of like getting concensus from a group gets harder as more and more people are involved...

They could remove functionality. Should the CRJ have a bunch of avionics that don't work? Should they just be dumb placeholders that will be developed "sometime in the future?" Ask yourselves this question. Is this really what you want? Sure, you might have a few fun flight hours, but you will soon tire of not being able to fly the aircraft as it should be flown. We already have complaints about this in other high-quality aircraft in reading these, and other, forums. Should scenery images not be processed to look as good as possible? Nothing more will take away from the immersive simulator experience when you have unrealistic scenery or non-functioning avionics. Is this a game or a simulator? Let the complaints begin if you release a product, especially payware, with these deficiencies.

The release date can also be extended. If there is no reason in which a hard deadline has to be met, the team can elect to keep working until it's done; that is the case with the CRJ. That is the development team's choice as to how they are approaching this project. You already know from reading the CRJ forums, that this aircraft will be a benchmark in many ways.

Much of the development time in a project, aircraft or scenery, involves detailed work and coding where there just isn't anything new to show eventhough the project is moving forward. I suspect the CRJ has been in this mode, and will remain so, for sometime. You can see what the cockpit looks like, but after several months of coding and back-end work, the new screenshot will oten look exactly the same. The only difference is that the avionics now work, whereas several months before, they did not. The flaps and landing gear now animate, whereas several months before, they did not, yet they still look the same.

The decision has been made to release when all functionality has been implemented. I'm sure we'll all really be glad we waited (patiently or not) when that release date comes!

If you get impatient, just be glad that numbers 4 or 5 above haven't been announced in this forum!!!

[Simmo W]

Good reply Eric. And from a customer-

Rush, you cant assume everyone has been waiting TOO long. It'll come out when ready, then when it does, 'people' will be asking about the next big thing. Enjoy what you have (Mentor has great night lighting) or are about to have (cough, SAAB, cough)!

What a fun few threads the last few days. Christmas long gone..

[MaidenFan]

I'm just frustrated because I don't know how to use all of those fancy avionics anyway, so the part of that CRJ that I will use most for a while seems to already be done. In the future I want to be a pilot, so I'll learn that stuff in depth then (although it would be good to learn some now). Now some of you are probably pilots or at least use X-Plane at a higher level than me currently, so I can see why a fully functional CRJ-200 would be all the world to you. For me though, that stuff will be useless for a while. On the bright side, like Simon said, the Saab (which I've been nuts about lately) will be out soon and I can learn some advanced systems on there while waiting for the CRJ to come.

[RealScenery]

Rushdude,

I think you answered your own question - learn about how these advanced avionic systems work before the CRJ is released. You don't just get in and use them, you have to spend a lot of study time understanding their capabilities, functionality, limitations, and role in the cockpit.

Now go shoot some ILS approaches in a well-equipped GA aircraft. That's flying, my friend!  ;D

[RealScenery]

Enjoy what you have (Mentor has great night lighting) or are about to have (cough, SAAB, cough)!

Excellent, Simon! Be thankful for what we have and what's coming, rather than complaining about what we don't have!

[Oliver]

I'm just frustrated because I don't know how to use all of those fancy avionics anyway, so the part of that CRJ that I will use most for a while seems to already be done. In the future I want to be a pilot, so I'll learn that stuff in depth then (although it would be good to learn some now). Now some of you are probably pilots or at least use X-Plane at a higher level than me currently, so I can see why a fully functional CRJ-200 would be all the world to you. For me though, that stuff will be useless for a while. On the bright side, like Simon said, the Saab (which I've been nuts about lately) will be out soon and I can learn some advanced systems on there while waiting for the CRJ to come.

Yeah Rush, you should really learn all the Garmin and all the "Advanced" Avionics in X-Plane now. Addons are starting to have full systems modeled and it's really fun once you know how to do it. I have to say things like the Garmin, and Vatsim have helped me in real life flying as well, as soon as my instructor told me to call ATC I already knew how to do it. It's really helpful, besides you feel pretty acomplished once you know how to work the systems of a plane like the CRJ or the A380. Learn now and you won't have to learn later 

[Japo32]

Writting from phone so I cannot write too much.

I want to say it very clear. The Crj is not beta and to reach that stage still are needed maybe months. Anton had several problems and the work of the plane was slow as eternity for 6 months.

Now he is working more regularity, but now he is working on a 8 hours office work, and Fms is far away from been complete. Thought it was ended because the info I received, and yes lots of things are done but they need to be tied. So as you can see, I want first to finish things and later we will see if we can make perfect things. Lets follow the correct steps.

Has been several times the project has been near canceling, and one of the main reasons was because wanted to make it perfect.

Life on real things not promises. I want to end the plane but maybe won't be the same it's on your imagination. Don't let the hype grow and kill the project.

The good news is that Austin will give support to the code before and after release if anything goes bad.

About, find people working on my projects. Believe me without money to pay before it's really difficult.

By the way, have a happy new year, and nice flights around you!!

[Rob B.]

Javier, Best of wishes to you and your team as this project continues.

I hope it will finish with glory and success, and not with cancel! 

shoot, you could sell what you have already with much limited function and it would probably be OK

with most of us as long as we can shoot the ILS with it LOL

never mind, hey I am sending my best wishes to you and your team for great success and really think that X-Plane v-10 will be the best personal flight simulator in the history of the world thanks to ppl like you's dedication and persevering.

[trok]

ok bye bye for the crj.. let me wait another project. :-P This is the problem when many company show their project early and the wait for the release is very big. Jrollon, Xp-jet, the Xp-10... all is going out of the promised realease date. I think that is better to not sow the work in progress.. since the work is not close to the beta version. At moment from 2-3 yrs we still not have a good plane for XP. I cna say only this we have a good simulator but not some good planes... all promise and nothing is arrived.

[MatthewS]

Lets face it, the CRJ is dead! 

So many delays and we find out Anton now has a real job.  He's not going to waste time on the CRJ when he is making 100x more at his new job than the CRJ will ever make for him.

As others have said XP has no product that is comparable to what the likes of PMDG have produced for FSX.  The CRJ was meant to be the shining example of what is possible but I think Anton has really let down the JRollon team and XP in general.

Yes XP has fantastic modellers but where are the developers that are capable of PMDG level systems programming?  I think we will NEVER see any XP products that are as good (or even close to) products by PMDG, unless PMDG themselves decide to work on something for XP.  But that is very unlikely now that Microsoft Flight is coming out very soon (this year).

Why not release a "lite" version of the CRJ with simple systems, and then later if you ever find someone to finish Anton's work you can release the "advanced" version.

Like so many products that "fail to launch" its always because of the "weak-link" in the development chain.   Verbal contracts, only as good as the paper they're written on.

[Cameron]

Lets face it, the CRJ is dead!

No, it's not.  

So many delays and we find out Anton now has a real job.  He's not going to waste time on the CRJ when he is making 100x more at his new job than the CRJ will ever make for him.

You must know Anton on a personal basis? This is news to me.

Why not release a "lite" version of the CRJ with simple systems, and then later if you ever find someone to finish Anton's work you can release the "advanced" version.

Read the numerous other posts about a lite version and you'll have your answer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The CRJ is a really fun product. There is a ton of code that is complete, and smaller portions that aren't. The source code doesn't lie specifically with one person, and we've got our own line to follow for this.

It's unfortunate how long it HAS taken to see this project through. None of us would have imagined it this long from the start, but the determination to get it done is there. With as much work that has gone into it, it will get released. The core development team has a new schedule to see this through, and when is the only question.

Lite versions are not in our vision. It will not happen. We can appreciate everyone's passion for wanting this aircraft, and we assure you that we'd love to get it out to you. As it stands now it would be a major step back to re-fit the regions with generic instruments (the displays are not generics), let alone the time allocated to other tasks with Laminar for Javier given his side of the CRJ work is done.

Coming on here and complaining like MatthewS has done does not do you, nor any of us any good. It's also becoming rather redundant, and it's unfortunate some individuals are becoming as shortsighted as above.

If anyone has the right to be upset, it's our own development team for how long it has taken to get this far. We are in debt to ourselves, and not the community at the moment. Once you have invested money into the project then you'll have a platform to scream and yell as you like. Until then, "cool your jets."

[MaidenFan]

ok bye bye for the crj.. let me wait another project. :-P This is the problem when many company show their project early and the wait for the release is very big. Jrollon, Xp-jet, the Xp-10... all is going out of the promised realease date. I think that is better to not sow the work in progress.. since the work is not close to the beta version. At moment from 2-3 yrs we still not have a good plane for XP. I cna say only this we have a good simulator but not some good planes... all promise and nothing is arrived.

How about the T-34 and the Duchess. They are probably the two best add-ons for X-Plane right now along with Peter's A380. Plus, the Saab 340 is coming out very soon as well, so you'll get a regional airliner.

[Lukasz]

You know, sometimes I really have this feeling, that some folks are actually paid for coming here, stirring things up and nagging the developers for "too long" time, that it takes to make a high quality plane. Just to make fun of unnerving the good guys, to start another pointless debate, to enjoy others jumping to their eyes. Come on, this topic was beaten to death. Anyone smart enough should get the picture already. By the way, I dream of high quality Super Tucano with full custom avionics, could any of the "impatient CRJ awaiters" make one for me? I would be great if you could do it in, like two months, because I'm impatient also It shouldn't be that hard, right?   :

[hobofat]

Lets face it, the CRJ is dead! 

Like so many products that "fail to launch" its always because of the "weak-link" in the development chain.   Verbal contracts, only as good as the paper they're written on.

I haven't seen this much drama since the last time Desperate Housewives was on tv  :  You could always go fly that "other" simulator, you know, the one with "PMDG-quality" products.  I'm not sure I see the utility in getting your knickers in a knot over a digital model--the CRJ will come in due course.

[MatthewS]

Ok that's good news then that it's still coming out.  Can you please give a release date?   Saying "it's ready when it's ready" does not indicate any real commitment to finish the product.  

Frankly, I very much doubt this product will be released in 2011.  History has shown that seriously delayed products usually don't materialize though I really hope I'm wrong about the CRJ!

And no I'm not paid to come here and complain. I have no affiliation with any FSX or XP developer.

edit: If you ready what Japo says about Anton sounds to me like Anton is finding the systems programming far too complicated to finish anytime soon.  It's the 80/20 rule. Sure fast progress is made in the initial stages (hence what we saw in the preview movies) but finishing that last 20% is going to take 80% of the time.  If I think about PMDG and the 747/MD11 or LDS 767 those companies had multiple developers working 2 to 3 years on the systems.  Really it's not reasonable to expect Anton to be able to finish the CRJ systems to the same level of completion.

Don't get me wrong, Anton is obviously a talented developer. I just think the effort to do the CRJ systems is probably far more than anyone realized.