tkyler Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) Bear with me...and I am SURE I am not seeing all options for BRAVO users, so this is just a discussion to get things going. When I was at Air Venture, I spoke with the CEO of Honeycomb and tried their Bravo quadrant with the MU2. I found it to be a bit confusing and this sentiment was echo'd by one of the Honeycomb sales staff, claiming the confusion stems from "lever movement below the detent" that does nothing. So as you move the lever aft below the detent, a command is executed just aft of the detent, but you can continue to move the lever backwards but nothing happens...there is no axis values coming out of the hardware below the detent for us devs to do anything with. Please read on before immediately responding So for Bravo users, as they move their levers aft TO the detent (in ALPHA region), the axis values goes to zero at the detent and if you map the detent command to "lift power levers", then the levers will immediately animate to the "3D lever 0 position" to match the raw axis value of zero, which is full aft/reverse in the Moo...and a bit of an odd jump of the levers from flight idle to full reverse. Now lets say you do not have a Bravo with that "command detent"....and we'll use the TBM as an example. In the Moo, you can elect to have the throttle 'stop at the detent' until you command it over, at which point it then animates to match the raw joystick value. Now where this 'virtual detent' is on your own hardware is subjective. Whose to say the 'virtual detent' in the TBM should be at 30% of your raw joystick movement...or 40% or perhaps whatever the real thing is? In the Moo, I think I hard-set it to 50% as per the real quadrant (and ignore the power detent ratio..which is for REAL detents only). This gives identical resolution in ALPHA and BETA range raw values and matches the Moo's 50/50 split. The point I'm getting to though...is that in this second example of a simpler joystick (no command switch aft of lever travel), there are still non-zero RAW joystick values below the 'virtual detent' in which to operate your joystick in the BETA region...so you don't get that funny jump to full reverse. In the Bravo, this is not the case...UNLESS you're OK with never moving the joystick below the detent and adopting the "simple throttle lever" technique ....i.e. the Bravo detent position is analgous to a simpler joystick's "full aft position" where the raw values are zero. This is what I found odd about the Bravo with regards to the MU2. Your mind says "I want continuous BETA control below the detent", but there are no raw values to work with.....only the command trigger. So when the command is executed at raw joystick values of 0...what should happen? SO....after dreaming about this the following night.....if it were ME and I was a Bravo owner.....I asked myself...what might feel natural with the Bravo...even though the Bravo config does not mimic the MU2 quadrant well..and some compromise is required no matter what.....and this is what I'm currently thinking...its a bit of a combination of TBM-like behavior and IXEG behavior all rolled into one..and not sure yet what roadblocks I might find if I go down this road. As you move your Bravo lever aft towards the detent position, the 3D levers move in the ALPHA region normally, from max throttle to flight idle. I'd call this the lever ALPHA MAPPING. If you continue to move your Bravo lever further aft though and trigger the command switch, then we could switch to BETA MAPPING and the "full foward position" of your Bravo now becomes the flight idle position....and full aft of your Bravo now becomes the full reverse position; however, being that your lever is full aft at the instant of command triggering from ALPHA to BETA... the beta mapping would not be effected until you moved your lever full foward to essentially "reset the mapping. So, in essence, joystick movement is temporarily ignored when transiting between ALPHA/BETA modes until you move your levers to the opposite limit position and initiate the new mode. This is where a ghost-throttle graphic would come into play in some fashion. When in the BETA MAPPING mode though, the command switch would do nothing if you move your levers below the detent, because you can't, in reality, move the lever any further aft and there would be nothing to do. This might be awkward for some...but again, the Bravo doesn't map to the Moo quadrant well. Another question though....How then, do you switch from BETA mapping back to ALPHA mapping when moving the lever towards the forward limit of travel.... because there is no command switch at the forward travel position of the Bravo. You'd be using a hardware switch command to go from ALPHA to BETA, but not from BETA back to ALPHA. That would have to be either a keystroke command or "smart ghost throttle code" in combination with a 'sniff command' to let the Moo know you want to switch modes (and not just stay against the stops). The reason this would be acceptable "for my mind" if I was a Bravo owner, is because the hardware lever would always moving in the correct direction when in ALPHA/BETA modes.....BUT...with the compromise of a quick lever movement to the opposite limit to effect the change..and this could be awkward also as it is an unnatural movement when nothing is happening. So for example....during landing, you'd pull the Bravo levers to the detent (flight idle)....then after landing and wanting to go into BETA....effect some command (hardware switch or keystroke) and immediately move your levers full foward to 'reset the mapping'...and then you could pull your levers AFT to effect reverse, same as in the Moo. Even this has an annoying compromise if you're constantly going into ALPHA/BETA when taxiing as you'd be slapping your levers all over the place when switching modes. I couldn't say that after a bit of use with the Bravo, I would not just opt for the "TBM like" behavior and ignore the detent command altogether. There seem to be no ultimate solution that satisfies all. So...I'm ears to hear your suggestions, thoughts and recommendations, but in the end, the Bravo lever tech does not map well to the Moo IMO...so I am curious as to what the most preferred method may be that most will accept (because it will never be all) -TomK Edited August 3, 2022 by tkyler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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