ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!

[dagauy]

I have to congratulate you guys for this outstanding work, i was really surprised for the flight model.

In real life i fly 700s and 800s and always i found the 300 very close to the 700 on the flight characteristics, not the performance obviously.

The new flight model is very accurate, really is

For example after take off i needed to apply rudder trim to compensate and put that Yoke arrow centered again, was there when my mind blows.

i am really happy with this plane, i gonna test more this bird .

Just dont forget to udpate the FMC, i really need to know how much fuel i gonna have at my arrival hehehe.

Cheers guys

[SkyFly]

7 hours ago, dagauy said:

I have to congratulate you guys for this outstanding work, i was really surprised for the flight model.

In real life i fly 700s and 800s and always i found the 300 very close to the 700 on the flight characteristics, not the performance obviously.

The new flight model is very accurate, really is

For example after take off i needed to apply rudder trim to compensate and put that Yoke arrow centered again, was there when my mind blows.

i am really happy with this plane, i gonna test more this bird .

Just dont forget to udpate the FMC, i really need to know how much fuel i gonna have at my arrival hehehe.

Cheers guys

What blew me away was, now Check, hold, close acutally results in a precise, firm landing. Not in a floaty float anymore. (experimental flight model)

[fehrster]

Man, this plane feels "alive". It is such a joy to (hand)fly it!

[Super27]

Having flown the B734 IRL, this is the best handling I have ever seen for any Boeing in X-Plane.  Great job with the flight model!

Edited May 24, 2020 by Super27

[MotherFokker]

Great to read these comments!

[XPJavelin]

Yes, the exterior is very good looking, those engine nacelles are outstanding.

The flight model looks good too....

I have always thought this is the very one add-on of the X-Plane ecosystem.

Only problem I have is that I can't use the cockpit or systems, and all external carts are not removable (GPU, pushback and External Air keep attached in flight), since I can't run Gizmo on my Ubuntu Linux. Not sure, since there actually IS a Gizmo Linux plugin installed.

But using the "start with engine running" option of X-Plane, I can use the engine power, since it stays based on the X-Plane engine model, and fly in the HUD view.

How needs a cockpit after all ?

Edited May 24, 2020 by XPJavelin

[ktomais]

Good job IXEG! Thanks for the update, quite fun using the experimental flight model!

Here's some photos from getting service at Lugano - LSZA, madness, but we managed with a hard 280ft/m touchdown (playing the procedure of IGS01 a bit loosely). First 733 to land there?? Challenge extended to Jan.  

Edited May 24, 2020 by ktomais

[Litjan]

Nicely done!

[ZeeMuffenMan]

Just a shame XP11 destroys the ground effect in this bird...take me back to the XP10.51 FM!

[cmbaviator]

16 hours ago, ZeeMuffenMan said:

Just a shame XP11 destroys the ground effect in this bird...take me back to the XP10.51 FM!

ground effect is there

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd26dS4DgFA&t=105s

[ZeeMuffenMan]

33 minutes ago, cmbaviator said:

ground effect is there

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd26dS4DgFA&t=105s

It is - just not as good as it was in XP10

[cmbaviator]

i beg to differ, in XP10, the ground effect killing the V/S was a bit exagerated and the nose down (nose heavier) when entering ground effect was absent which is not realistic

now at 50 feet, you really feel the nose dropping and the need to add more back pressure.

 

XP10 might feelt better for you but it's a bit less realisticI think, maybe @Litjan can shed some light on the matter

[Litjan]

I agree with cmbaviators assessment. It was easier to land smoothly in XP10 (with our artificial cushioning)...but not more realistic.

We have had long discussions about ground effect at IXEG (and Laminar) and scientifically the ground effect is MOSTLY a reduction in drag...not an increase in lift. That is also there, but only very close to the ground, not "half the wingspan" as the drag reduction.

Cheers, Jan

 

[ZeeMuffenMan]

I was just comparing it to available 737-3 landing footage (watching both pitch on PFD & elevator input from the crew) as it seems that the IXEG in XP11 doesn't handle as nicely as it did back in XP10...it seems like I don't need to add much back pressure anymore at around 15-10ft, where the real 733 would start to require a lot of back pressure, as that nose wants to dive due to loss of lift, of course even more so when you get closer to the ground. (I do believe it's more down to XP11's new ground effect - which if you do ask around, wasn't all that of an "improvement" compared to XP10; people also forget that a loss of momentum will cause the nose to pitch down too, but that's not due to ground effect).

Edited May 25, 2020 by ZeeMuffenMan

[cmbaviator]

11 minutes ago, ZeeMuffenMan said:

I was just comparing it to available 737-3 landing footage (watching both pitch on PFD & elevator input from the crew) as it seems that the IXEG in XP11 doesn't handle as nicely as it did back in XP10...it seems like I don't need to add much back pressure anymore at around 15-10ft, where the real 733 would start to require a lot of back pressure, as that nose wants to dive due to loss of lift, of course even more so when you get closer to the ground. (I do believe it's more down to XP11's new ground effect - which if you do ask around, wasn't all that of an "improvement" compared to XP10; people also forget that a loss of momentum will cause the nose to pitch down too, but that's not due to ground effect).

would you mind sending me those video links ?

[cmbaviator]

18 minutes ago, ZeeMuffenMan said:

I was just comparing it to available 737-3 landing footage (watching both pitch on PFD & elevator input from the crew) as it seems that the IXEG in XP11 doesn't handle as nicely as it did back in XP10...it seems like I don't need to add much back pressure anymore at around 15-10ft, where the real 733 would start to require a lot of back pressure, as that nose wants to dive due to loss of lift, of course even more so when you get closer to the ground. (I do believe it's more down to XP11's new ground effect - which if you do ask around, wasn't all that of an "improvement" compared to XP10; people also forget that a loss of momentum will cause the nose to pitch down too, but that's not due to ground effect).

could also depends on speed management, for example if at 50ft the pilot is at Vapp- 2kt and a VS of -800/-900, he would need lots backpressure during flare comared to being at Vapp +5 kts and a V/S of -600

flare starts at 53:45, you can see that he gives little back pressure and still manage to make a kiss landing

He generated a float with not that much back pressure

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by cmbaviator

[ZeeMuffenMan]

Absolutely, can depend on many factors as such & really I should do more testing but I am just going off what I and some others have experienced. Good example of testing the ground effect can be seen here at 19:40+ (I feel like what was said here is true)

 

[Litjan]

I am bowing out of the discussion, but by all means feel free to discuss this here - I think it is a vital and fun part of our hobby!

Everyone has their own opinion, ask 10 long-time pilots of how the 737 lands, and you will get 11 answers. I am happy with the model we have.

Cheers, Jan

[ZeeMuffenMan]

7 minutes ago, Litjan said:

I am bowing out of the discussion, but by all means feel free to discuss this here - I think it is a vital and fun part of our hobby!

Everyone has their own opinion, ask 10 long-time pilots of how the 737 lands, and you will get 11 answers. I am happy with the model we have.

Cheers, Jan

Yup and I don't want to make this into a "IXEG is silly and wrong" because that is completely the opposite of what IXEG represents. No matter what was said above, this product is an all time favorite and will continue that way  Improvements to be made (just like any product that wants to be the best) but I know they will be covered in the future!

Cheers  

Edited May 25, 2020 by ZeeMuffenMan

[cmbaviator]

7 minutes ago, Litjan said:

I am bowing out of the discussion, but by all means feel free to discuss this here - I think it is a vital and fun part of our hobby!

Everyone has their own opinion, ask 10 long-time pilots of how the 737 lands, and you will get 11 answers. I am happy with the model we have.

Cheers, Jan

agreed but does really the nose drop starting from 60 feets ? i was thinking more in the 30 feets area

[Morten]

55 minutes ago, ZeeMuffenMan said:

...it seems like I don't need to add much back pressure anymore at around 15-10ft, where the real 733 would start to require a lot of back pressure, as that nose wants to dive due to loss of lift, of course even more so when you get closer to the ground. 

On the contrary, lift increase starts at about one CHORD altitude were you need ease off on back pressure (after the flare/break).  Pitch down effect starts about 70' agl.  We have analyzed dozen's of real B733 landings based on real FDR data.  Attach a sample of a few real B733 landings for you. As Jan says, we  had these discussions with Austin many times and provided various documentation.

So the combination of science, real data, NASA test data and Jan's extensive in type flying experience has given us the result we have today which is the best for any desktop sim.

[cmbaviator]

3 minutes ago, Morten said:

On the contrary, lift increase starts at about one CHORD altitude were you need ease off on back pressure (after the flare/break).  Pitch down effect starts about 70' agl.  We have analyzed dozen's of real B733 landings based on real FDR data.  Attach a sample of a few real B733 landings for you. As Jan says, we  had these discussions with Austin many times and provided various documentation.

So the combination of science, real data, NASA test data and Jan's extensive in type flying experience has given us the result we have today which is the best for any desktop sim.

Now we're talking lmao. I don't quite understand how you can determine the area of pitching moment change in ground flare based on these figures, could elaborate for me please

these were all kiss landing, almost all were <-100 on touch down !

[cmbaviator]

On 5/24/2020 at 3:47 AM, dagauy said:

I have to congratulate you guys for this outstanding work, i was really surprised for the flight model.

In real life i fly 700s and 800s and always i found the 300 very close to the 700 on the flight characteristics, not the performance obviously.

The new flight model is very accurate, really is

For example after take off i needed to apply rudder trim to compensate and put that Yoke arrow centered again, was there when my mind blows.

i am really happy with this plane, i gonna test more this bird .

Just dont forget to udpate the FMC, i really need to know how much fuel i gonna have at my arrival hehehe.

Cheers guys

what would you need to apply rudder trim if there is ,no engine or flight control failure ?  i've watched hundred of videos if not more on the B737 and ihave yet see the PF used rudder trim after take off ?

[dagauy]

On the 700s and old 800s very often you need to compensate with rudder trim after take off (not immediately) or climbing due to a deflection on the rudder, is not always but often, i heared from former classic drivers that is the same, even on the 200s, so i dont know if on the IXEG this is some kind of psichological issue or very well simulated.

And by the way you are not gonna see everything even on millions of videos.

This is some kind of behind the scenes stuff.

Cheers

[dagauy]

OMG this is amazing, even with NASA Graphs, all is about the feeling of the aircraft, all those numbers are for Engineers, as 737 driver (NGs) i can tell you related the flight dynamics this is the closest one to real airliner, even over PMDG.

The landing on this jets depends of a lot of factors, energy, mass, weather, etc., so how can you say as a fact something watching a video, really???.

Dont be so worried about soft landings, be worried to land the bird inside the 3000 ft marks, because with 5 knots over Vref, a delayed thrust cut and some nice winds, you are gonna fly over the runway a lot if you dont have a good expertise and quickly move the beauty to the ground and that doesnt mind the softest landing. (that happens on the IXEG)

So i didnt seen any other real driver discontent about the flight dynamics of this plane and there are a lot over here.