Aircraft turns AWAY from the desired course

[paulferg]

I just installed the latest hotfix, published yesterday evening, bringing me up to 1.0.7.  Attempting to fly out of TIST to KMIA just now and the LNAV is just not working.  Thinking I had a bad installation of the latest hotfix, I did it again, and same thing happened.  The aircraft perversely attempts to fly in a direction opposite to what shows in LEGS and on the panel instrument.  For me at least, this is a significant problem.  I go through my normal routine, engaging Autopilot after a successful take-off, then punching LNAV which engages, and immediately the behavior starts.  Awaiting 1.0.8.

 

 

[mmerelles]

59 minutes ago, paulferg said:

I just installed the latest hotfix, published yesterday evening, bringing me up to 1.0.7.  Attempting to fly out of TIST to KMIA just now and the LNAV is just not working.  Thinking I had a bad installation of the latest hotfix, I did it again, and same thing happened.  The aircraft perversely attempts to fly in a direction opposite to what shows in LEGS and on the panel instrument.  For me at least, this is a significant problem.  I go through my normal routine, engaging Autopilot after a successful take-off, then punching LNAV which engages, and immediately the behavior starts.  Awaiting 1.0.8.

 

 

mmm this is weird. can you share more details? i would be happy to reproduce it and provide more evidence to the developers.

It is necessary you share the detailed flight plan you loaded on the fmc, departure runway, sid, route, arrival star, runway. What altitude, ci, you configured?

What navdata version you have installed? it could be also an error on the navdatabase.

 

Just saying it doesn't work will not help the developers reproduce and fix it if anything to blame ixeg for.

[paulferg]

For mmerelles: I reproduced the problem again today, here is a description in greater detail with screenshots:

I updated to 1.0.7 - twice to make sure I had things right after experiencing this problem after the first update.   Flight is TIST to KMIA. I've totally programmed the FMC and gone through my check list and all is good. I punch N1 and TOGA throttles up, rotate at VR and commence a slow turn to starboard at V2. At about 1050 AGL I engage A/P A, L NAV and V NAV. Immediately the aircraft turns AWAY from the desired course, continuing to climb. This happened twice yesterday with a total computer shutdown/reboot in between, and happened again this morning in precisely the same fashion, after a total overnight shutdown. The airplane has no failures enabled and I load it up with engines running,using Ground Service for loading fuel and adjusting ZFW. Any light you can shed on this would be appreciated. Best regards, Paul

 

[mmerelles]

@paulferg

thanks for sharing the info! first thing i noticed on your screen capture is your next active waypoint is an (INTC) order. I have seen this problem before the aircraft not joining the magenta when this order is in place. maybe you are experiencing the same issue/bug here? the developers already know about the other case. We need to wait a bit for them to investigate.

Can you please edit your legs page and remove the INTC and set next waypoint PALCO to confirm this fixes your issue?

Anyway i will reproduce your flight a bit later when at home to confirm we are having the same behaviour.

Edited June 28, 2016 by mmerelles
misspelling

[paulferg]

Thanks much, I'll try that.

[paulferg]

mmerelles, I did as you suggested, removed the INTC and made PALCO the first entry.  However I had precisely the same results.

 

What is I uninstall the a/c - I saved the original zip file that I downloaded the day that I bought the plane, I could reinstall then download the 1.0.7 hot fix - just in case something has become corrupted in my installation?  Is that do-able?

[mmerelles]

@paulferg

ok i did a small test for you and had the same behavior, i also confirm this is the same behaviour i have seen yesterday trying to recreate another user reporting LNAV not following the magenta after departure.

 

your SID - PALCO6 has 2 conditional orders at first

-An altitude turn at 423 ft or Above

-An (INTC order)

-Then comes PALCO waypoint/transition

 

To fix this for now:

 once you programed absolutely everything and ready for departure, go back to LEGS page 1, press LSK3 (to select PALCO) then press LSK1 to insert it and shift the entire flight plan up automatically, press EXEC to confirm the mod.

Now you can departure and engage LNAV with no problem.

note: remember you have to reach 400ft AGL for LNAV to engage, otherwise it won't

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2016 by mmerelles
misspelling

[paulferg]

mmerelles, thanks for sticking with me on this.  I did as you suggested and indeed, the aircraft flies the magenta line!  However. . .I was unable to activate the V NAV light and the a/c seems compelled to pitch up at about 5000 fpm as the speed drags down towards stalling.  I attempt to get v/x active and reduce pitch but I am not allowed to.  Repeated attempts to get VNAV going are fruitless.  Eventually I start to stall and the a/c reduces pitch in order to allow the speed to pick up, giving me a negative pitch until I reach 250 kts. then it oscillates back upwards and cycle begins again.  Right now it is showing IAS "A 142" and once it pciks up speed the A disappears and I can increase the speed dial to 250 again.

 

So, two questions.  

A. In a perfect universe, should it be necessary to eliminate the 450 and the INTC from legs.  If so, no problem, and I'll learn to do it.  

B. Any idea what's going on with my VNAV.

Actually a third question - any merit to my idea of reinstalling the initial zip file back-up I made, then downloading the 1.0.7 hotifix and eliminating my current installation?

[mmerelles]

@paulferg

 

A. No, not at all. Conditional orders exist in the real world, and the ixeg FMC has them modeled to be supported. It is not working temporarily because the FMC is an incredible complex piece of software and they keep fine tuning it over the hotfixes.

Under the normal PALCO6 procedure

-The first order 423A means to the FMC you have to keep flying runway trajectory until you are 423ft or Above ground level before making any turn.

-The second order (INTC) means to the FMC you have to fly/intercept as specified on the order.

The procedure is just fine, problem is the FMC is somehow misleading it and not being able to follow it. Surely this will be fixed by the developers do not worry.

 

B. I had no problem to engage vnav as well. Did you set your arrival procedure and runway as well? for my test i have chosen FLIPR4 star, HODGY transition as per your flight plan, and chosen ILS08R procedure with no transition.

If VNAV is not engaging for you it means you are missing to set something, you are leaving a discontinuity on the plan or something like that.

 

C. You can reinstall the initial zip 1.0, then running the hotfix updater will upgrade you straight up to 1.0.7. If you did not changed anything on your hardware, neither reinstalling the operating system it should not consume part of your 3 activations.

Anyway, i do not see why you should reinstall from scratch. This is recomendable when you had a disk failure and corrupted files, or something like that.

[paulferg]

@mmerelles

Just learned something about addresses here. . .

The only potential discontinuity I had was one leg that said (vectors) - your point is good, perhaps if I had taken that out as well I might have been able to do VNAV.  Having programmed that darned FMC too many times today (I can almost do it by memory for that route) I think I'll give it a rest and wait to see what tomorrow brings.

 

And thanks very much for explaining the 423A and the INTC.  It is amazing how much you learn here.

 

[mmerelles]

@paulferg

 

VECTORS on the legs page means to the FMC to maintain specified heading until further instructions are received from ATC to resume navigation. In other words you can not continue the approach unless ATC tells you what to do. VECTORS may be present on SID as well.

If you leave them as is on the plan, when the FMC reaches that you will notice a line to the infinite on the ND and the aircraft flying steady forever, this is exacly what VECTORS order means, keep flying while you receive further instructions what to do next.

I presume you are flying offline, you are not going to receive any ATC instruction, so your best action would be pressing the LSK key for the waypoint below VECTORS and then pressing the LSK corresponding to the VECTORS order to replace it and shift the flight plan up, so the FMC continues the approach procedure by its own.

 

that being said leaving VECTORS on the flight plan, does not constitute any issue for VANV to engage. If you are not getting vnav to engage something else is missing. I will re-program the FMC a bit later and share you all pages screen capture for you to compare.

[paulferg]

 Thanks very much.  You are correct, I fly off-line. So it seems that in the future I should just eliminate the vectors line. 

 Are you one of the developers? And if not, do they monitor this thread? 

[mmerelles]

@paulferg

ok, here i am sharing you the detailed configuration.

1. On the ixeg grodund menu: i set 9 tons of fuel (kgs units) and i set 50 tons (kgs) of ZFW. i really like how this aircraft feels heavily loaded, you actually can feel it. Amazing stuff from ixeg!

2. Please find attached all 8 legs pages after programming the route and removing the 2 initial conditional orders and the vectors. 

For departure i use RW10 and PALCO6 departure, for arrival i use FLIPR4 with HODGY transition and ILS08R procedure with NO transition selected.

3. For the PERF INIT page i do use 50 tons ZFW, CI 50, Reserves 5, FL340 (we are flying western direction). I am not using any derating, short runway and heavy bird. I am using 15 degree of flaps flaps. See attached the screen captures for those pages.

 

A. upon takeoff i wait for minimal altitude and engage LNAV + CMDA for the A/P start following the magenta.

B. 1500 ft AGL (above ground) = 1530 ft on the baro altimeter aprox, i engage VNAV

 

note: on the preferences menu set your CWS deadzone full to the right, this will prevent your joystick sending noise while trying to engage A/P or being on A/P already and disconnecting A/P. Desktop quality yokes tend to do that.

 

I think this covers everything you may need to test. Hope i am not missing to share anything. Remember minimal LNAV & VNAV altitude or they will refuse to engage!

 

Final comments: 

No, i am not part of the ixeg team, neither x-aviation. I am one of the several people who loves this project and contribute on the forums as much as possible.

Yes, they are monitoring all threads and they jump in when required. But they are a small team creating this master piece so it becomes difficult for them to reply every single post within a few minutes.

 

ok, you let me know how it worked for you

 

flight plan:

https://skyvector.com/?ll=24.432146698119265,-77.18005370958979&chart=304&zoom=6&fpl=F340%20TIST%20PALCO6%20PALCO%20RTE6%20ROBLL%20Y587%20HARDE%20A555%20EVETS%20HODGY%20FLIPR4%20KMIA

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by mmerelles

[paulferg]

@mmerelles

Putting the slider all the way to the right (plus eliminating confusing legs) did the trick - I'm successfully on my way to KMIA, coming up on FL 180 and CHAKA.

 

Thanks very much for getting me straightened out, I do appreciate it.

 

Paul

[mmerelles]

15 minutes ago, paulferg said:

@mmerelles

Putting the slider all the way to the right (plus eliminating confusing legs) did the trick - I'm successfully on my way to KMIA, coming up on FL 180 and CHAKA.

 

Thanks very much for getting me straightened out, I do appreciate it.

 

Paul

 

thats great news

 

[tkyler]

Hi Paul, indeed we do monitor the forums.   Super thanks to mmerelles for helping out.  We are finding there is just a bewildering array of combinations of routing and "rules" to be implemented for various cases.   My approach is to monitor the forums here and any time someone comes across a situation I haven't seen,  then I try and reproduce it (assuming I have the route info) and then try to figure out what is what.  

-tkyler

[Tim013]

I have a similar issue with the MIZAR3 arrival into KDTW.  It worked fine in 1.0.5, but not now in 1.0.7.  I started a thread about it earlier this week. 

The odd thing for me is the FMC accepts the route, there are no discos, and the only INTC waypoint is after the approach, on the way to the holding pattern.

For me, the arrival ends when I get the message "UNABLE CRZ ALTITUDE".  This is followed by "WAYPOINT NOT FOUND"  for any other waypoint I choose in the arrival to try and bypass the UCA warning. 

Is there a way to roll back to version 1.0.5?

Thanks,

 

Tim

[Eddie]

On June 29, 2016 at 9:18 PM, mmerelles said:

@paulferg

ok, here i am sharing you the detailed configuration.

 

Off-topic, but what shaders/post-processing do you use?

[Tim013]

LOL....yeah, really.  I thought those were photos at first, not in game screen caps.

Tim

[WR269]

I had a similar issue, first flight with the 1.07...was vectored to rwy 25L at EDDF....heading 280 until intercepting the ILS which meant a nice left hand turn to course 253.

 

I armed the LOC and all was well...the needles were active...approaching the extended centerline the aircraft started a left hand turn to intercept the Localiser....but then it intercepted and continued the left turn...I thought it was just correcting itself but I had to disconnect the autopilot when instead of settling on a heading of 253 for the ILS of rwy 25L, it was on a heading of 180 and still on a left turn.

[Cameron]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Off-topic, but what shaders/post-processing do you use?

I don't think any...looks to be photos of his screen from a phone or camera.

[mmerelles]

@Eddie

as Cameron just said, those are photos taken from the imac screen with the phone camera.

[Litjan]

7 hours ago, WR269 said:

I had a similar issue, first flight with the 1.07...was vectored to rwy 25L at EDDF....heading 280 until intercepting the ILS which meant a nice left hand turn to course 253.

 

I armed the LOC and all was well...the needles were active...approaching the extended centerline the aircraft started a left hand turn to intercept the Localiser....but then it intercepted and continued the left turn...I thought it was just correcting itself but I had to disconnect the autopilot when instead of settling on a heading of 253 for the ILS of rwy 25L, it was on a heading of 180 and still on a left turn.

You certainly turned the CRS-1 (or CRS-2 for FCC 2) selector to the inbound course of 248, right?

Jan

 

[WR269]

You certainly turned the CRS-1 (or CRS-2 for FCC 2) selector to the inbound course of 248, right?

Jan

 

Yup certainly did. Will try it again today, I set up the Nav radios and course before top of descent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tim013]

On 6/27/2016 at 6:24 PM, paulferg said:

I just installed the latest hotfix, published yesterday evening, bringing me up to 1.0.7.  Attempting to fly out of TIST to KMIA just now and the LNAV is just not working.  Thinking I had a bad installation of the latest hotfix, I did it again, and same thing happened.  The aircraft perversely attempts to fly in a direction opposite to what shows in LEGS and on the panel instrument.  For me at least, this is a significant problem.  I go through my normal routine, engaging Autopilot after a successful take-off, then punching LNAV which engages, and immediately the behavior starts.  Awaiting 1.0.8.

 

 

I tried your flight just now, and got a gizmo soft crash.  After rebooting, I kept getting the "UNABLE CRZ ALTITUDE" message for every waypoint entered into the FMC.

Tim

IXEG_FMS_debug.txt

GizmoLog.txt