Spoiler not deploying at touch down 1.0.4

[cmbaviator]

As title states, not deploying at TD even if armed prior

Sorry for my poor landing in struggling to keep centerline even if there is no crosswind component

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[poodster]

Do you have an axis that is mapped to the speed break?

[mmerelles]

7 minutes ago, poodster said:

Do you have an axis that is mapped to the speed break?

i presume yes, at 1:43 look at the bottom right corner the speed braker lever is vibrating and seems fighting an external lever.

[cmbaviator]

Yes I have an axis. Worked fine in 1.0.3 though

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[Litjan]

Hmm, yeah - it looks like it is fighting for control - will map an axis and see if I can reproduce... Thanks, Jan

 

[Fabio Pittol]

One note on this, that may help:

On default aircraft (and most addons follow their behaviour) the Armed position if somewhat considered "-1" on the Speedbrake scale. So even when not using as an axis, you'll see that if cycles through Up > Flight Detent > Down > Armed. Even if the real aircraft has the Armed position between Down and Flight Detent, as the 737 do.

I imagine that Laminar though that like this, you can still fake the lever position, but won't have conflict deploying them on touchdown (FJS Boeing aircraft do exactly like this).

As you guys from IXEG modeled the realistic behaviour of the real aircraft (the Armed position "above" the Down), upon touchdown the sim it's probably thinking that the axis assigned is trying to raise/lower the Speedbrake to about 15%.

[cmbaviator]

Hmm, yeah - it looks like it is fighting for control - will map an axis and see if I can reproduce... Thanks, Jan

 

Did another flight and it was fine, I don't know what caused the issue the first time. Maybe the spoiler was between the armed and non armed position but was in armed position for the IXEG but not for xplane ?

[Litjan]

6 hours ago, cmbaviator said:

Did another flight and it was fine, I don't know what caused the issue the first time. Maybe the spoiler was between the armed and non armed position but was in armed position for the IXEG but not for xplane ?

This could be - we "enlarged" the armed position range a bit because people complained that it was too hard to hit it - maybe this introduced the problem...

[tkyler]

I'm betting a "noisy axis"....not unlike Jan's throttle in his movies.  The axis system employed by x-plane only reads the axis values if they are changing.  If they are "fixed"...then x-plane does not try and read your hardware....if the value is changing, x-plane will try and match your hardware.....so in this case, there was a fight between X-Plane and IXEG....most likely instigated by your hardware though.   Moving your hardware lever ever so slightly might be enough to stabilize the dataref, of course you have zero clue if this is going on without watching the datarefs....which is impractical for the end user.  Without opening X-Plane and looking right now (cause I'm hungry and lazy)....does each axis have a nullzone adjustment?   If so, it probably exists for this reason.

-tkyler

[cmbaviator]

9 hours ago, tkyler said:

I'm betting a "noisy axis"....not unlike Jan's throttle in his movies.  The axis system employed by x-plane only reads the axis values if they are changing.  If they are "fixed"...then x-plane does not try and read your hardware....if the value is changing, x-plane will try and match your hardware.....so in this case, there was a fight between X-Plane and IXEG....most likely instigated by your hardware though.   Moving your hardware lever ever so slightly might be enough to stabilize the dataref, of course you have zero clue if this is going on without watching the datarefs....which is impractical for the end user.  Without opening X-Plane and looking right now (cause I'm hungry and lazy)....does each axis have a nullzone adjustment?   If so, it probably exists for this reason.

-tkyler

i don't know if each axis has an individual nullzone ajustement, i just use the global nullzone setting in xplane and set it to 1-2 %. i have the saitek quadrant pièce of hardware. lets assume my spoiler axis had some noise, shoudn't the armed position display in the IXEG be blinking between armed and non armed ?

[tkyler]

1 hour ago, cmbaviator said:

shoudn't the armed position display in the IXEG be blinking between armed and non armed ?

No, because the arm light works within a tolerance zone that is probably bigger than the noise deviation you are experiencing, whereas XP does not.  I am unsure if the nullzone applies to axes settings.  I have confirmed that there are no nullzone sliders for indiividual axes in the hardware setup screen.  I'll probably talk to Laminar about this as we don't want to have to code around such low level behavior (even though we do it for the throttle) if we don't have to.  

-tkyler

[mmerelles]

8 hours ago, cmbaviator said:

i don't know if each axis has an individual nullzone ajustement, i just use the global nullzone setting in xplane and set it to 1-2 %. i have the saitek quadrant pièce of hardware. lets assume my spoiler axis had some noise, shoudn't the armed position display in the IXEG be blinking between armed and non armed ?

xplane has no null zone support for axis levers so far (except flying surfaces pitch, roll, yaw), it is highly recommended not to use axis for flaps, neither speedbrakes. They will keep arming, disarming, moving, fighting from nowhere due to signals coming from the hardware. It can work yes, but it is far from stable.

Best advice would be use a lua script to control the axis for speedbrakes, so you can define nullzone, arm position with enough margin, also ignore noise coming from the cheap potentiometers, etc.

 

[WR269]

I have found that if I don't arm the speedbrakes, they deploy during landing. If I arm them, they don't deploy.

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[Tchou]

The speedbrakes will deploy with reversers, but it should deploy on touchdown on it's own when  armed (at least it does on my plane).