[In Progress - Items 2/3] Props and Stuff

[AtomicFrawg]

First off, I want to say WOW!, you guys really did it. This is an amazing aircraft. I did my first live stream with this aircraft last night and the viewers were very positive. This was also my first time opening and flying the Saab 340a. One notable comment was, "This is better than a PMGD aircraft for FSX". It was a 2 hr walk around, getting familiar and a short test flight.

 

This plane is a dream to fly, oh and no overly exaggerated torque issues. (this is a huge plus fyi)

 

The check list view feature is out of this world! The first time going through this I was awestruck. No fumbling around looking for anything. Big Thumbs up!

 

Flight tutorial?!?! Who has ever heard of that with a study level plane? LES and X-Aviation has! This is something that was needed in past aircraft, and the Devs provided one for us in the Saab. It's very easy to follow and step by step from startup to shut down.

 

The documentation is amazing and very well done.

 

 

Just two suggestions:

 

1) A check all and un-check all button in each check list. Including the ground services tab. (check all needed)

 

I know I'm sorta lazy.

 

2) I would have liked to see the engine exhaust heat distortion. Not a big deal but would make a cool addition.

 

 

A few very minor things I have noticed.

 

1) The northwest red and grey livery does not match from the radome to the fuselage.

 

Note: I am assuming that this is trying to simulate a repaired or replaced radome, however I think the white stripe misalignment is over done.

 

2) The prop freewheels in the wind, cold and dark.

 

There has to be some kind of prop brake lever I just have not found out about?

 

3) Two switches are missing from the check list.

 

Main INV switch and Standby Pitotswitch is not mentioned in the normal before start check list but is listed in steps 8 and 9 of auto start.  

Edited September 25, 2013 by AtomicFrawg

[ointment]

1) The northwest red and grey livery does not match from the radome to the fuselage.

You mean like the one here?    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eyvQfXAroTK-ntCDos_lqA

[AtomicFrawg]

You mean like the one here?    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eyvQfXAroTK-ntCDos_lqA

 

Well hell, I guess its my OCD kicking in. That would bother me in real life Btw. LOL 

[ointment]

I thought it was an error, too, the first time I saw it.  It bugs me, too, but I guess Northwest just rolled with it.  I wonder how many of those "malaligned" nose cones they actually flew with?

[Airbus]

Its common to see mix matched parts.

Mix matched parts are even more common on regional airline aircraft. Radome's are just a start!

Edited September 25, 2013 by Airbus

[Cameron]

First off, I want to say WOW!, you guys really did it. This is an amazing aircraft. I did my first live stream with this aircraft last night and the viewers were very positive. This was also my first time opening and flying the Saab 340a. One notable comment was, "This is better than a PGDM aircraft for FSX". It was a 2 hr walk around, getting familiar and a short test flight.

 

Thank you for your kind comments, and we're really happy you're enjoying this product! We worked really hard on this over the last three years and felt we had something special, and your response here confirms that! Please consider leaving a small rating review on the actual product to help your fellow peer in their purchase decision: http://www.x-aviation.com/catalog/take-command-saab-340a-p-100.html#reviews

 

1) A check all and un-check all button in each check list. Including the ground services tab. (check all needed)

 

We'll consider this, although I guess if you decide not to checkbox each item as you roll down it like you should and move to the next checklist, what really is the point? You can't be THAT lazy! 

 

2) I would have liked to see the engine exhaust heat distortion. Not a big deal but would make a cool addition.

 

I assume you mean in HDR? I agree that this is something turboprops would have, and we'll investigate adding it in.

 

1) The northwest red and grey livery does not match from the radome to the fuselage.

 

As you've seen, this is accurate and ugly!

 

2) The prop freewheels in the wind, cold and dark.
 
There has to be some kind of prop brake lever I just have not found out about?

 

The Saab 340A variant does not come with a prop brake. Saab only introduced this for their B/B+ variant later in years.

 

3) Two switches are missing from the check list.
 
Main INV switch and Standby Pitotswitch is not mentioned in the normal before start check list but is listed in steps 8 and 9 of auto start.  

 

I need to investigate this one and will get back to you! It should be in there, as especially the Main INV is a crucial step.

[Dhruv]

The props, even on the B/B+ used to windmill all the time in wind during my ramp experience working the Mesaba fleet. We used to put a RON kit on overnight that would tie the props down.

[Hueyman]

The prop freewheels in the wind, cold and dark.

 

In this case, this has nothing to do with the wind actually ... It is an X-Plane flaw

 

The only two solutions if you want to see your prop dead stop when cold and dark and calm wind, is to have a very powerful PC and increase the number of flight model ... or go to plane maker>engine spec and change the transmission loss to the minimum ( let's say 0.001 )

 

This will reduce the transmission losses ( gearboxes, belts if any, etc etc ) and will really make your prop turn freely ... and when it will come to a stop, it will forever ... the bigger the trans. number is, the faster the prop spin on cold and dark... It is probably due to all behind the scene calculations that X-Plane does for engine model, taking into account all parameters such as prop weight ( so inertia ), transm. losses, engine torque, reduction ratio etc etc ...

 

Hope this helps for you, I myself can't stand to see props/rotors spinning forever in X-Plane, that gives a taste of bug ...

[Cameron]

In this case, this has nothing to do with the wind actually ... It is an X-Plane flaw

 

It has everything to do with the wind...if the wind is not present, the props do not rotate. 

 

Messing with ANYTHING to do with engines on this aircraft will void your support AND cause you MAJOR issues. We entirely override every aspect of the engine model in X-Plane to properly simulate the CT7. 

[Hueyman]

Okay thanks for the warning Cameron

 

Though no, it do not have everything to do with the wind I investigated the matter enought to affirm that, sorry... Load the default King Air for example or any prop plane ( even piston ) and place it cold and dark, with 0wind and gust, put flight model to 1 and see what happens

 

Thanks

[Cameron]

Though no, it do not have everything to do with the wind I investigated the matter

 

Yes, it does. You have no idea what you're talking about. You don't have the Saab, but to appease you, I just loaded it up with the exact settings you specified. The props do not rotate.

 

Please do not go telling people to do adjustments on a product that:

 

A.) You don't even own to know that what you're saying is even the issue

 

B.) Is heavily customized and programmed to mimic the real deal

 

The props spin in the wind, just as they would in real life. There is no prop brake on the A, and as has been mentioned by Dhruv here who worked in the real world with the B (which does have a prop brake), even those would spin in windy conditions.

[Hueyman]

Did you realize I spoke about any default plane and not your heavily coded wonder ? There are still other planes than the Saab that flies in X-Plane you know

 

I told him that because it is a known issue with any X-Plane aircraft and I thought he would consider that

 

If this is not the problem, and the prop rotate because there is a calm wind of 0.05 knot on your Saab's prop, then OK, I admit I was wrong and eventually gave him the possibility to break the plane and so the support, which was not intended and I excuse for that

 

Though you can test what I said with any plane that use X-Plane provided engine models ( which is 99% of the fleet ), and you will see.

 

Thanks

[Cameron]

Did you realize I spoke about any default plane and not your heavily coded wonder ? There are still other planes than the Saab that flies in X-Plane you know

 

Was this topic ever about other aircraft? Go start another thread in another forum if you want to truly discuss such a thing. 

[arb65912]

Was this topic ever about other aircraft? Go start another thread in another forum if you want to truly discuss such a thing. 

 

Hueyman, you better watch what you say here or thread will be closed. 

[Goran_M]

"arb"

We won't lock threads without a valid reason.  Usually, it's because things begin to get out of hand.

I mean no hostility when I say this, but when people come in these support forums and start suggesting to others that they modify certain areas of the flight model just to stop a very minor thing from doing something they think it should not be doing...especially when it's an add on as complex as this...it does get very frustrating.  Modifying 1 area can very well end up breaking 10 other different areas.

I have mentioned it in the "PLEASE READ THIS" thread, that people who choose to modify ANY part of the aircraft, they are voiding any support they are entitled to.  That can be a very big issue for us as there is nothing to stop that person or people from lying about changing something...then we can't reproduce the problem, and we are stuck with what to do to help...leading to many hours of wasted time.

I have spent many MONTHS fine tuning just the engines with Jim writing thousands of lines of code around what I was doing, and then Jim putting the finishing touches in the flight model.  When a part of the engine would not work, we would literally go back to the beginning and start again.  Even changing the transmission losses could very well have an impact on the entire engine system because the code is referencing specific parameters of EVERY part of the engine specs within Planemaker.

It really cannot be stressed enough to those people that choose to modify files.  DO NOT change any part of the acf file or anything else in the package that pertains to the aircraft's functionality.  If you do, you do so at your own risk of "breaking" something.  

It will only cause headaches for everyone involved.  If there are problems, tell us, and we will research it and fix it if it needs to be fixed.  

Happy Flying.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Goran_M

[arb65912]

Hi Goran,

 

I absolutely agree with you.

 

I only replied being a bit sarcastic because Cameron closed the thread I started about XACARS problem. 

I did not modify anything, I reported the problem and the 90% of the discussion was about who said what and who was right ending up with Cameron locking the thread.

 

I am sorry if you took it against what you said about modifications.

 

You do not know me but you can trust me, I agree with you 100%.

 

Things are complex in SAAB, changing one can trigger bunch of other parameters or cause errors.

 

We, users, should just report things ( like my locked XACARS thread  ) and wait for your input.

 

This way , little by little all bugs will be killed and SAAB will be the best XP aircraft available so far.

 

I apologize again for replying in a way that might make you feel offended or simply bad.

 

You are a very polite person and I was just very angry, I spent hours to get to the point that I could report my findings, Ben said that he will look into it, then Cameron stepped in and the thread ended up being locked.

 

I promise not to get involved in the future in discussions not related strictly to the SAAB project.

 

Thank you very much for great reply, I really like your approach and manners.

 

Cheers, AJ 

[Goran_M]

Many times, context can get lost through text.  Particularly if English is your second language.

Cameron is 1 of the nicest people I know and it's a privelage to call him my friend.  If you knew his personality a little bit more, you would see that as well.

Let's just move forward.

[arb65912]

 

 

Let's just move forward.

 

Agreed 100%, Goran.    

[Cameron]

I only replied being a bit sarcastic because Cameron closed the thread I started about XACARS problem. 

 

That's not reason to reply at all. It's childish in fact, and you contributed absolutely nothing constructive in here. Don't do it again. As a grown man, I'm sure you're capable of leaving that childish baggage at the door.

 

You're the only one in here with a locked thread in the entire Saab forum; go figure.

 

I promise not to get involved in the future in discussions not related strictly to the SAAB project.

 

Hopefully that starts now. Don't bother replying to this.

[Cameron]

2) I would have liked to see the engine exhaust heat distortion. Not a big deal but would make a cool addition.

 

 

 

3) Two switches are missing from the check list.

 

Main INV switch and Standby Pitotswitch is not mentioned in the normal before start check list but is listed in steps 8 and 9 of auto start.  

 

Just to let you know, these have not been forgotten. I know this topic has sat here for a bit! 

[JGregory]

2) I would have liked to see the engine exhaust heat distortion. Not a big deal but would make a cool addition.

 

This is simply a matter of having HDR on... the exhaust is there and there's nothing we can do to turn it off or on.  Without HDR -> no exhaust.

Edited September 28, 2013 by JGregory

[Cameron]

This is simply a matter of having HDR on... the exhaust is there and there's nothing we can do to turn it off or on.  Without HDR -> no exhaust.

AF,

Jim's point is valid but my automatic assumption is that you used HDR. Is that not the case?

[arb65912]

Cameron,

 

I am able to keep my comments to myself regardless what your reply is and I will try hard to do that from now on.

 

I want to learn, not to argue, honestly.

 

I am replying just to let you know that at xacars website there is no contact information, otherwise I would took your advice and contact  them for further investigation.

[AtomicFrawg]

@ Arb65912 - Please keep the drama out of my threads

 

 

This is simply a matter of having HDR on... the exhaust is there and there's nothing we can do to turn it off or on.  Without HDR -> no exhaust.

 

 

This is simply a matter of having HDR on... the exhaust is there and there's nothing we can do to turn it off or on. Without HDR -> no exhaust.

AF,

Jim's point is valid but my automatic assumption is that you used HDR. Is that not the case?

 

 

That is correct. I only fly with HDR on. Still not seeing the exhaust.

[AtomicFrawg]

So this morning I was testing engine exhaust / HDR. I noticed something odd going on. The left engine does have something around the exhaust nozzle. Its very very faint and seems like its inside the rear part of the cowling. You would never see it if you don't zoom in on the exhaust nozzle. The right engine has nothing.

 

Please see the video for an example. At the start is the Challenger 300 to show HRD on. At the 7min mark show Saab outside exhaust and at the end I show my settings.

 

Edited September 29, 2013 by AtomicFrawg