Interest Check: Duchess & C23 Sundowner Update?

[Scubby1359]

I'm wondering if anyone else would be interested in Leading Edge Simulations updating or redoing their older projects, being the Musketeer and Duchess (both by Beechcraft), up to a similar standard for 10.30+ as seen in the fantastic Saab 340 study sim and DC-3 as well as the upcoming Citation II. I have a few reasons for asking...

1. X-Plane 10 is seriously lacking for the "Platinum standard" GA aircraft that FSX/P3D users enjoy. Carenado/Alabeo are the best we have, and while they're still pretty great planes with fantastic visuals and audio, it's a common opinion that they aren't that much above default when it comes to systems and flight models. They're certainly no study sims, as the documentation is also quite weak. FSX/P3D players will tell you that RealAir & A2A Simulations are far superior, having comparable quality to PMDG airliners, proving that the GA category can be represented much better.
2. Their later projects prove they can reach that standard. The Saab 340A is one of most, if not THE most, realistic representations of an aircraft in X-Plane 10. Visuals, sounds, complexity, ease of use, utilities, tons of liveries, several variants, pretty fantastic and complete overall package. The DC-3 is also very highly acclaimed from what I've read of users opinions on it.
3. Their next project is the 747-200/400. That's perfectly fine, but fans of heavy metal, regardless of time period or size, already have lots of choices when it comes to great add-ons. Flight Factor's 757 is right up there with PMDG, with the 777 is not far behind, and the A350 XWB still being pretty great. FlyJSim has a fantastic 727 and 732 for fans of the classics. The JARDesign A320, wonky fly-by-wire aside, is also very complex and well made. SSG already have the 747-8 covered, which is extremely similar to the 747-400 when it comes to avionics for the sake of easy conversion. Coming up, we also have an amazing MD-80 by Rotate, a DC-6B by PMDG, and the IXEG 737-300. That last one basically blows any flight simulation add-on I've seen out of the water.
4. Light GA aircraft tend to be less complex, and you already have a solid base to go off of.
5. Anyone using X-Plane to train for a real world PPL/CPL would appreciate an aircraft that provides all the training and procedures of a real aircraft. The Musketeer is a good introductory aircraft and the Duchess is a far better piston twin trainer than any aircraft currently available or coming to X-Plane. The Baron is quite big, the Seneca is alright, the DA42 only gives you two levers for engine controls due to FADEC which takes out a lot of the challenge.

If LES did do this, you could maybe re-release them with a $10 higher price tag (but with a discount/free download for previous owners). The CRJ and Saab had the title "Take Command!" slapped on them by X-Aviation so maybe you could refer to these as the "Learn to Fly!" series or something.

 

Thoughts and opinions?

Edited March 15, 2015 by Scubby1359

[Goran_M]

Ok, I'll weigh in on this one.

This has been on my mind for quite some time, and I have wanted to redo both the Duchess and Sundowner for quite a while.  The problem is the return on time invested.  When I made the Sundowner, it was made with the sole purpose of getting something done that wasn't too complex and was just a fun one to fly.  

I've looked at both the Sundowner and Duchess and would actually enjoy re-doing them.  However, if we're talking about bringing them up to customer expectations of todays X-Plane add ons, there would definitely have to be a (reasonable) price tag attached for current owners.

 

As for the heavy airliner stuff.  I can see what you're saying, however, I would never abandon the 742 and 744, regardless of which other developer makes them.  I consider competition very healthy and when the competition is tough, it forces the developers to up their game, which leads to the community having more than 1 choice to make, depending on their needs/wants.  

If a developer wants to make a lite version, then it caters to the lite crowd who just want to get in and fly, without all the planning.

In saying all this, and in reading your post, I can say I am a little more swayed to put out a Version 2 of the Sundowner and Duchess, but IF they go ahead, they will have to be side projects to the Citation.  

For now, the Citation is our top priority.

 

[Scubby1359]

Yeah, I figured you'd want to get the Citation II done first since you're so close.

 

I added another poll asking if your current buyers would be willing to pay for a re-release of the aircraft, which might help you gauge whether it'd be worth the effort.

 

If you could get Frooglesim to showcase it, and I'm not sure how'd you accomplish that, it would be a lot of free advertising. His favorite plane is the Duke for FSX, and the Duchess is basically a baby Duke, so such an aircraft would be right up his alley.

[dr_nerdrage]

I'll chime in and say that for me, both aircraft in question don't really fill a niche that I feel has been underrepresented so far and would probably need to be at or  close to A2A/RealAir product level for me to purchase (which may very well not be worth the time investment/price that can be asked for it).

 

The Citation however... 

[alpha12125]

I would love some high quality GA but i can understand the hesitation to devote so much time on a small plane, which has already been released. I would kill for A2A product level and honestly would pay alot for that, but then again only if it would be at that level. The Saab is expensive compared to other turboprobs, but is worth every penny and i never regretted it one minute. So that kinda sets the standard what the GA have to be for me

[SkyKing0916]

Along these lines.  I just purchased and installed the Sundowner for X-Plane 10.35.  This thing is very disappointing!  I hope I have done something wrong.  The Panel is worse than FS4.  I cannot find how to not show the yoke. etc..  I have a few hours in a real C-23 and was excited to load this model.  Is there something I'm missing.  I fly the 172SP and Archer and totally enjoy them.

[Ben Russell]

For reference, this is FS4.

 

 

 

Some respect is appropriate. 

 

You will be treated with all that you deserve.

 

 

Maybe go book yourself an eye test?

[Goran_M]

Along these lines.  I just purchased and installed the Sundowner for X-Plane 10.35.  This thing is very disappointing!  I hope I have done something wrong.  The Panel is worse than FS4.  I cannot find how to not show the yoke. etc..  I have a few hours in a real C-23 and was excited to load this model.  Is there something I'm missing.  I fly the 172SP and Archer and totally enjoy them.

 

Really?  FS4?

I shall equally reciprocate your comments by saying you just invested in a lesson that teaches you that as we progress, so does the quality.

This lesson cost you $14.95.  A bargain if you ask me!

The bright side?  You could always load the C-23 up in X-Plane 9.22 (which is when I made it) and you'll see what X-Plane USED to look like before X-Plane 10 came along.

Here endeth the lesson.

Have a nice day.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Goran_M

[Cameron]

I cannot find how to not show the yoke. etc..

It's in the manual.

Is there something I'm missing.

Yes. Reading the manual.

[deetee]

I have both the Sundowner and the Duchess and would love to see a "refresh", such as mouse wheel support + GNS430/530. There again I understand it might not be financially viable for LES to do that, but at least it would bring them more in line with the competition, and X-Plane 10 has also evolved since they were released.

[Goran_M]

I have both the Sundowner and the Duchess and would love to see a "refresh", such as mouse wheel support + GNS430/530. There again I understand it might not be financially viable for LES to do that, but at least it would bring them more in line with the competition, and X-Plane 10 has also evolved since they were released.

 

It's not something I would definitely say no to.  Scroll wheel support isn't hard to add.  

I already have the Garmin modelled and textured, but adding it to the "ageing" panel of a 2009 payware release (yes, it's been that long) will make it look very out of place appearance-wise.

I've been looking at doing a Version 2 of the Sundowner and Duchess, but they'll be done when time permits.  This includes new mesh, new textures and maybe some code.  

The Citation is our top priority right now, but I would like to see the Sundowner and Duchess upgrades done within the next few months.

[cruster]

For reference, this is FS4.

 

 

 

That brought back some memories. The first flight sim platform I bought was subLOGIC FSII on a C=64. Man, I'm old!

 

I have the Duchess. Would like to fly her more, but the MU2, JS32 and BK17 have spoiled me. I would pay for an upgrade to a full-on update. 

[Goran_M]

The Sundowner and Duchess are getting an overhaul.  No estimates when they will be done.  But I will get them done as soon as I can.

New mesh and new textures.  

MAYBE some new code.