AtomicFrawg Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ok wait..... So what parts of this did you develop? Just the installer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
account641 Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ok wait..... So what parts of this did you develop? Just the installer? Everything however we are discussing the shader issue as to whether it was tweaked or actually created from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
account641 Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Selling tweaked content from Laminar is explicitly forbidden under their terms and conditions. Start explaining. I am pleased to say the Austin has given us the all clear to include the tweaked cloud shaders in the payware product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicFrawg Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Everything however we are discussing the shader issue as to whether it was tweaked or actually created from scratch. How can you say everything, when you are using other peoples work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueyman Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Nice ;-) Now bad mouths will be free to annoy someone else ;-) While both products have their pros and cons, for now I'd rather go for the SkyMAXX Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
account641 Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 How can you say everything, when you are using other peoples work? Everything has been created in-house by AWG Sim. except from the glacier textures which John made a year a go and we tweaked the default X-Plane cloud shader files to make them look more realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
account641 Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Nice ;-) Now bad mouths will be free to annoy someone else ;-) While both products have their pros and cons, for now I'd rather go for the SkyMAXX Pro I have no idea how SkyMAXX Pro works apart from it uses the Sundog SDK however I do imagine it may possible for the products to work in some form together - perhaps John's clouds and our skies. I will not know if this will be possible till the release of his add-on and as such I do not want to make any promises. Edited October 3, 2013 by AaronG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
account641 Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I now have previews of the 3 different night lighting modes - not strictly to do with the sky but it adds to the overall atmosphere hence its inclusion. Red Yellow White All feedback welcomed on the night light colours and shaders and we are nearing release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Selling tweaked content from Laminar is explicitly forbidden under their terms and conditions.Start explaining. I am pleased to say the Austin has given us the all clear to include the tweaked cloud shaders in the payware product. I find that hard to believe. I spoke directly to Ben supnik a week or two back about an identical issue. (Releasing tweaked shaders for VM use) and I was told itd be ok as log as they were free.Your word is not good enough. Post the emails you sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueyman Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 He has no obligation to show you anything I'm not worried that, if he stole anything, the original authors will soon realize and act in consequence... I don't understand why everyone here is trying to fail him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I don't understand why everyone here is trying to fail him Reputation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) He has no obligation to show you anything I'm not worried that, if he stole anything, the original authors will soon realize and act in consequence... I don't understand why everyone here is trying to fail him If he want's to advertise his VERY likely stolen goods here then he absolutely has an obligation to provide proof of permission. The fact that I've very recently spoken to Laminar about an identical situation doesn't help his credibility at all either. Edited October 4, 2013 by Ben Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueyman Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Okay I understand that very well guys, but why don't you solve that via PMs behind the scene ? You are already destroying his reputation even before the thing is released or he has provided you the proofs, that's not very fair and I'm unsure you would like someone would do the same with LES products ... Even if you know you created 100% on your own, people asking you to provide proof etc could be a bit irritating isn't it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 You are already destroying his reputation even before the thing is released or he has provided you the proofs, that's not very fair and I'm unsure you would like someone would do the same with LES products ... Even if you know you created 100% on your own, people asking you to provide proof etc could be a bit irritating isn't it ? I think you need to have a very good, thorough read through this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueyman Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Ok I will take time to thoroughly read it from the first post until now, it intrigates me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Laminar confirms that permission to re-use the shader HAS been granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
account641 Posted October 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 If he want's to advertise his VERY likely stolen goods here then he absolutely has an obligation to provide proof of permission. The fact that I've very recently spoken to Laminar about an identical situation doesn't help his credibility at all either. Ben, I do not like how you are going about handling this. We are under no obligation to release the emails exchanged between Austin and I, they are confidential. I appreciate you are looking out for the community however I do not appreciate interfering with internal business. We have stole nobodies work. I do not know where that ludicrous idea came from. It is a very bold statement to make especially considering you have not yet used the product. Yes we released a sub-standard Scenery/Terrain: EuropeXP product for X-Plane and it was not a successful as we hoped however we have learned a tough lesson on product and customer management. Everything has been created in-house except for the glacier textures provided by John. You have made a great plugin system for developers to use but your actions do little to inspire confidence in me, especially in this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Russell Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Where there's smoke there's fire, and there's plenty of smoke around you buddy. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMAXX Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Aaron, I am going to be diplomatic concerning this situation but I do feel it is an obligation to air out a few things regarding how you have done business in the past and a few notes on my involvement with you. Recently you started pushing this sky product by providing very few and vague screen shots of your work. Only when I asked you to show more detail did you post more shots. Terrain Europe XP was marketed the same way. You asked for pre-orders and when anyone ever asked you for more screen shots you didn't provide much of anything. You also promised updates and landmarks as part of the product. Recently you did a 180 and decided not to support the product any longer which angered a lot of individuals in the community. In conversation with a friend of mine, from the community, you touted the sucess of your Terrain Europe XP, but here in a public forum you are telling people it wasnt a sucessful product. I think you may have lied to that individual in order to get something out of him..... Additionally you recently reached out to another friend of mine asking for his services to create a product better than UrbanMAXX, this is OK but you were making all kinds of promises as to a "new technique" to place textures and line them up with the roads.....This is all OK, but you were looking for this individual to figure it out, which isnt possible BTW.....Not without code anyway. If you did have this at your disposal why would you need to enlist someone from the community to do the work for you? That seemed very fishy..... And lastly you reached out to Sun-Dog, looking for them to develop another cloud add-on as work with me and Sun-Dog were already underway. And you found out pretty quickly that we were under an agreement. I don't mind that you did this, but again it shows you are trying to exploit the talent around you..... How could two versions of the same product compete? I think you were trying to cut me out, not good..... Another point is you do not even participate in the community, side converations, development threads, not an ounce. You show up out of the blue and try selling stuff with little information and thin content. Becoming a good developer in this community requires you to become a part of the community. Developers need to have a true relationship with the user base. You found out how strong mine is recently and I continue to work hard to maintain this.... Don't underestimate the intelligence of this community, they can see past shifty answers. Always be honest and open with them, especially in the area of how a product works...... Im not telling you what to do, or telling you to ignor the business side, but you should never let business take over, you need to keep a leash on it until you develop a reputation.... Plus a few of these points noted above are why you are having a hard time winning over the community. Frankly it is very painful to watch...... My Involvment With AWG Ok there is some hear say above so let me hash out my involvment with AWG. Aaron contacted me wanting to use UrbanMAXX with his Terrain Europe XP. So we started talking and I said that may work out. During our converations on skype I asked about reporting of sales and Aaron replied that he did not have a way of reporting sales statisitics RED FLAG.. I let that red flag slide and kept in the back of my head that we will just work that out later. During this time I offered him up some custom glacier textures which he put into his terrain europe product. One thing we discussed was a formal announcement of the product and our partnership. A blog post came out showing the glaciers and touting them as a feature in his product, with NO mention of Maxx-XP....RED FLAG I was a bit irrate at this point and after a conversation he added a little something down at the bottom of the blog post.... Around this time a member of a popular X-Plane review site contacted me with some concerns surrounding Aaron, Ill be honest I dont remember the details but it was surrounding his use of OSM and another irrate X-Plane developer. RED RED RED RED FLAG This review site was going to run a piece on AWG but decided to back out because of his reputation......And that was the straw that broke the camels back....I contacted Aaron and said he can have those glaciers and Im out....... Many other details were left out, but these are the facts I remember and this is why you have a hard time around here Aaron....... Dont get angry, really read this and try to take something away from it......But Im afraid you may have already have tarnished your reputaion to the point of no return..... 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueyman Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Thanks for that clarification John, now I understand much more ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMAXX Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I hate to do this to a kid but the plot thickens, back when we were talking he had told me he was 20 something and in college studying politics. Just a bit ago in a PM here he said he was 17 back then..... The basic idea of the PM was he was trying to do better, but he failed to remember what lies he spurted out in our previous conversations...... Additionally he told me he didn't contact Sun-Dog in regards to X-Plane but for FSX a few years ago, I know this to be untrue since me and Sun-Dog had talked about it...... I have no idea if Im talking to a kid, college student or a mother with 6 kids. This is very disturbing, almost pathological.......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Push_IT_Up Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 When ones credibility is shot; as IMHO, is the case with this individual there is now way to restore it, despite the produce they put fourth.Going forward, you can never convince anyone in this community to support your produce. Harsh lessen to learn in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Knudsen Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Forest's mom always said, life is like a box of chocolade, you never know what you gonna get....Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubajuan_new Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Forest's mom always said, life is like a box of chocolade, you never know what you gonna get....Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now FreeExcept when you buy the chocolate box yourself. If I buy a box of Hershey's with almonds I know what to expect. And since I am in Belgium (for those that don't know, here there are 3 awesome things: beer, frites and chocolate), there is big difference between a box of Hershey's, a box of gold coin chocolates and a box of Godiva's finest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Knudsen Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I take it that you did not get the irony then Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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