BOYCOTT CARENADO!

[PilotHudson]

This is concerning Carenado:

So I sent Daniel Klaue (DanKlaue) a email over Carenado and it contained the email I bought the plane with, In the message I asked him if there were any plans to improve the Flight Model of the Carenado c208b, after this he said there were no purchases under this email... I told him it was on the .org, he said it wasn't... I went to the .org asked if he had asked them about the email and they said yes... He won't respond to any further emails I send him....


PS. I sent him screenshots of my purchase record but he refused to respond...

Some Messages From our chat:

Still no match. Not from the .org nor on any other outlet. Sorry, but you have no business writing support requests. Future requests will be ignored.

Regards, Daniel K.

 

-Anonymous

Edited July 31, 2013 by PilotHudson

[BWolf7]

I already dislike the Carenado planes. But, I would just quit buying things from the org. You can get most planes from stores other than the org.

[Cameron]

Well, the topic title seems a little strong, but so too are Dan's words. This seems troubling.

So if I understand you correctly, Dan Klaue says you did not purchase the C208 in question, yet clearly you have, and you have shown him such screenshot reference?

And the org? Obviously this is in their purchase system, so did you approach them to clear this up with Dan?

[woweezowee]

Buy directly from Carenado. No issues there. Good support (with real issues). There's also an optinal patch for the flight model available

 

 

This patch improves the behavior of the aircraft replacing the ACF file.

 

Backup your Car_C208B.acf (Grand Caravan and/or Super Cargomaster) before replacing it in case you want to undone the changes.

 

This patch was made by by Joseph "NoJoe" Noe. Many thanks to him!!!

 

This is an optional patch.

 

 

So to me it looks like an issue with the org who seem to have informed Dan uncorrectly.

[Cameron]

So to me it looks like an issue with the org who seem to have informed Dan uncorrectly.

I agree, but....

 

Buy directly from Carenado. No issues there.

Referencing Dan, who does a lot of support for Carenado and is the go-to guy:

Not from the .org nor on any other outlet.

[steven winslow]

Sounds like some sort of cyber glitch.  I have no idea how the org records purchases, whether by IP address or by e-mail address, but it appears there is some sort of mix up that wouldn't be Dan's fault.  All Dan can do is rely on the vendors' records, whether direct from Carenado or some other vendor.  I know of one other developer who was recently contacted for support by someone who had a pirated copy of his aircraft.  The plane had been "given" to him by a friend and he needed some kind of support.  When the developer queried him about the purchase, the guy said "Oh, I didn't buy it.  A friend e-mailed it to me."  Brilliant!  Obviously no support was offered and a strong reprimand was given.

 

I understand Dan's concern and his terse response given that he can't find a record of the purchase and for all he can tell you could have a pirated copy of the plane.  I'm not accusing you of this, I'm merely trying to look at it from Dan's perspective.  Since it's a fairly new purchase it could be that the appropriate records haven't been created yet.  But as I've said, I have no clue how those records are created or kept.  I'd give it a few days and maybe do a little more research into the issue and find out why the purchase doesn't show up on Dan's end.

Edited July 31, 2013 by steven winslow

[Cameron]

I understand Dan's concern and his terse response given that he can't find a record of the purchase and for all he can tell you could have a pirated copy of the plane.  I'm not accusing you of this, I'm merely trying to look at it from Dan't perspective.

 

Steven, I know you like to give the benefit of the doubt, but this is frankly ridiculous. 

 

Dan straight up told this individual he would not be getting future support. Period. As the developer and provider of support, I would expect Dan to do his due diligence in assisting a customer in this, and not tell or assert to the customer he is a thief prior to doing so. Dan has other avenues, like contacting Nicolas to verify this (which is obvious it's in the system based on the screenshot). It's not good business, and frankly, it's not welcoming to any non-X-Plane individual just joining in to the community. We want people to buy add-ons and not to believe they're taking some kind of a gamble of future support depending on lazy investigation, time of day, weather, and mood from the developer.

 

There's only so many developers....and there's a lot of eyes watching.

 

I hope Dan changes his tune on this issue, and since you're great friends with him, I hope you followup with him on it.

[steven winslow]

I get the feeling there's more to this story than we have been presented.

 

 

Dan straight up told this individual he would not be getting future support. Period. 

Only Dan can tell us why he responded the way he did in this case, but knowing Dan the way I do, he must have had a reason other than being in a bad mood.

 

 

I would expect Dan to do his due diligence in assisting a customer in this, and not tell or assert to the customer he is a thief prior to doing so. Dan has other avenues, like contacting Nicolas to verify this (which is obvious it's in the system based on the screenshot).

I agree and I assume he did.  PilotHudson says he checked with the org to see if Dan did indeed check on the purchase which someone at the org verified.  We have no idea what Dan was told, thus we don't have any basis to make a judgement.  Again, I think we are missing some information.

 

 

I hope you followup with him on it.

Way ahead of you on this.  Thanks!  Not just because he's a friend of mine, but because I hate seeing anyone upset with any type of purchase, whether it be Carenado, X-Aviation, the org or any other vendor.  I just happen to have a bit of an "in" so I will see what I can find out about this issue and help in any way I can.

[Cameron]

I get the feeling there's more to this story than we have been presented.

 

To me this seems very black and white. If a customer has a valid order, then it's pretty much end of story. There's already a screenshot provided not only to Dan, but this very thread. Nicolas is not known to respond to folks who ask questions like "Did Dan ask you about me?" who are not legitimate. 

 

More to the story, yes. Definitely. From which side? I have no idea. It could be as simple as Dan not appreciating criticism. Bottom line, this guy spent his money, so regardless of comments made about a flight model or anything else, he's entitled to support outside of the scope of requests, and not to be labelled as a pirate.

 

I look forward to your followup on this. I think we all do, because as the story is currently represented, it's unacceptable.

[LA]

I won't boycott. IMO, Carenado is responsible for some of the best light plane graphics available. Graphics mean a lot to me. And that's even if a flight model has to have a few adjustments. I've never had any problem with them.....period. I have one Carenado X-Plane, and quite a few for FSX.

[Andyrooc]

You'd have to say that one person having one little tiny problem, not even with the product, just support, then screeching BOYCOTT! is a rather drastic over-reaction. Makes wonder what other little over-reactions occurred in the exchange of emails, which only one part was selectively repeated here? Dan is pretty affable, and generous with his time and support. The response attributed to Dan in the OP would appear to be on the end of some conversation with an aggressive customer at best and possibly not his words at all. I wonder what the "-Anonymous" bit in the OP is?

[Cameron]

You'd have to say that one person having one little tiny problem, not even with the product, just support, then screeching BOYCOTT! is a rather drastic over-reaction.

 

I don't know if criticizing an aircraft authors work comes across as a "tiny problem" to them. Some tend to take this in a very bad way. I know a certain other forum that does magical disappearance tactics to users who so much as say something the leaders don't like.

 

 

 

Makes wonder what other little over-reactions occurred in the exchange of emails, which only one part was selectively repeated here?

 

It does make you wonder. But, the wondering doesn't take away from the fact that a valid customer is a valid customer and always will be until you refund them. Calling them a thief doesn't work.

 

 

 

Dan is pretty affable, and generous with his time and support.

 

Again, my statement above remains. I get some wild people that would make some want to punch a hole in the wall sometimes. We have a very wide array of customers in X-Plane, and some assertions or requests are out of this world, BUT, they did pay money, it did end up in our bank accounts, and we MUST tend to these people. Telling them they will never be tended to for any support from here forth is unacceptable.

 

Regardless of the he said, she said, what truly has been said according to this post is that Dan feels the customer never bough the product and is not entitled to support. The customer, regardless of how whacky or not his request or support seeking may have been, presented a screenshot showing an order days prior, which appears quite valid. He was met with a response even still that he is not a customer and that he would not be entitled to ever write in support requests again, as they would be ignored. Simplified: Dan called an (apparently) legitimate customer a pirate. That's where the problem really lies here.

 

Hopefully Steven has more info in a followup.

[steven winslow]

There is most definitely a lot more to this story than the OP is leading us to believe.  I don't think it is appropriate to discuss it further in this forum.  If it smells fishy.....

[Cameron]

There is most definitely a lot more to this story than the OP is leading us to believe.

This sounds as though you've discussed this with Dan? Did the OP purchase the product or not?

[steven winslow]

 

a valid customer is a valid customer

As Hamlet said, "Ay! There's the rub."  There appears to be a history with this guy.

[steven winslow]

This sounds as though you've discussed this with Dan? Did the OP purchase the product or not?

Give me another day.  I still have another source to check out.  Things aren't always as they appear.

[Cameron]

Give me another day.  I still have another source to check out.  Things aren't always as they appear.

Coolio.

 

Thanks!

[larjeet]

If I purchase from Carenado I purchase directly from them I can log into my Account and download the updates . My other purchases are usually from here and I can do the same . As far as the org is concerned they have my account so screwed up that I never get my updates there for I never purchase from them. As far as service I must say that Cameron provides the best I always get notifications and can always contact him  online  with problems or even get info on products before I buy them . One question Cameron you always seem to be on the online technical chat do you ever sleep or have you cloned yourself.

Edited August 1, 2013 by larjeet

[steven winslow]

Two questions:

 

1.  Who is Darius Tate?

2.  What name and what e-mail address are attached to the org account depicted in the screenshot in the original post? 

Edited August 1, 2013 by steven winslow

[scubajuan_new]

I don't usually stick my nose where I'm not asked for, but I would like to address this topic for two reasons: 1) The thread title is an attention grabber and 2) I read all about this somewhere else.

 

Apparently this began not as a technical support issue but more like a demand to modify the flight model of the plane in question. I don't know the details but to me one thing is to have a technical problem, like missing components, simulator crashing, something that should work not working, etc. and another is to simply not like the product (or parts of it) and ask (more like demand) the developer to comply to my desires. It is ok to point out inaccuracies and suggest possible improvements for a product, if it is done politely with respect for the work done. It is up to the developing team to address the issue or not. If criticism is made, it should be based on solid grounds, like experience flying the real aircraft, reliable sources of information, access to the real plane, etc. the developer might take the suggestions more seriously. If the criticism is based on my experience with a similar product from another platform or just my appreciation and expectations, the developer might very well ignore the request.

 

The other issue is the validity of the support request and the bad record keeping or broken communication between store and developer. Bad press about X-plane and X-Plane's products affect us all (developers and users alike). I hope the issue is resolved and since the can of worms was opened in this forum, a follow up and clarification by all parts involved is desirable. I doubt that Nicky will explain here his side of the story, but perhaps someone close to him with an insight of the org's involvement in this issue could clarify.

 

I do not own any of Carenado's aircraft yet but I might consider some of their products in the future. And no, I am not boycotting Carenado. I am sure that when we hear their side of the story, things will make more sense.

 

Edit. Typos

Edited August 1, 2013 by scubajuan_new

[steven winslow]

PilotHudson,

 

Go to your org store account and click on the "Your Account" button then take a screenshot of that page and post a screenshot of it.  It should look something like this:

 

 

 

 

[pryoski]

In my opinion, it's just too easy to spread bad feeling on the Internet.
PilotHudson, your account is deficient in detail .. it's not complete.
FWIW I've enjoyed a cordial and professional relationship with all the vendors I've had dealings with .. including Carenado.

Communication is a two way street, and requires a certain sensitivity. I hope all parties can come to a proper conclusion.

[Flying_pig]

I understand Dan's concern and his terse response given that he can't find a record of the purchase and for all he can tell you could have a pirated copy of the plane.  I'm not accusing you of this, I'm merely trying to look at it from Dan's perspective.  Since it's a fairly new purchase it could be that the appropriate records haven't been created yet.  But as I've said, I have no clue how those records are created or kept.  I'd give it a few days and maybe do a little more research into the issue and find out why the purchase doesn't show up on Dan's end.

actually he had already given it a few days according to the time stamp made by bandicam when the screenshot was taken he had already owned the aircraft for four days.

Unrelated but am i the only here who finds it strange that there are options to log out, sign in, recover a lost password and, create a account at the top of the screen?

[pryoski]

Unrelated but am i the only here who finds it strange that there are options to log out, sign in, recover a lost password and, create a account at the top of the screen?

 

It's the way it appears on the Org Store .. I just logged into my own account to confirm.

[FloB]

Really guys, this is talking about a anonymous, unknown guy with a "screenshot" (!), a crude story, yelling "BOYCOTT CARENADO"!

This is nonsense. The topic should have been shut down the very first moment it appeared.

 

Flo