Payware Planes Demo Mode?

[onetwothreegone]

Should payware planes have demo modes? I saw this on X-Plane.org and wanted to know what you guys think. The planes could have a serial code system. I think the Boeing 777 has this along with others. If you don't have a serial code you might be locked into say a 10 minute demo mode. In the demo mode after 10 minutes you can't fly anymore. The plane would also start up with the engine running so we can fly it around for 10 minutes to try out the plane and not spend 10 minutes finding out how to turn it on. I think you could get a lot more buyers this way. 

[Cameron]

Tough call. You also open yourself up (as a distributor and developer) to people trying to crack and pirate your product doing this without any chance or really figuring the culprit. Sad, but true.

 

We've gone back and forth on this internally for a long time. Maybe one day it will happen, but not now.

[larjeet]

Just allow a small portion of the aircraft just as Xplane 10 allows only the demo area . this way you could download the VC and only fly it for 10 minutes before it locks up

[Cameron]

Just allow a small portion of the aircraft just as Xplane 10 allows only the demo area . this way you could download the VC and only fly it for 10 minutes before it locks up

 

That doesn't achieve the desired result.

[Bobback]

I would love to see that! But only it that would NOT mean a lot of external plugins running on my machine, and also if that doesn't weaken the file's security.

Comming from MS platform one thing that scared me when started with X-Plane was the price of some paywares, and for sure a demo would be good. Probably since MSFS have a bigger market addon creators can sell it cheaper, thats the only reason i see. At least that all addons i saw for X-Plane are all good quality addons, and that wasn't true for MSFS, there was a lot of awesome paywares, also a lot of bad quality paywares too 

 

But, for sure this is not good for developers, this probably will made them easier to be cracked, and one thing that will be much worst than addons without demos, is to see an addon maker losing interest on making good quality addons because of their products being cracked.

 

Ah.... still miss some good quality freewares for XP10 like these ones: http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.com.br/

Edited February 5, 2013 by Bobback

[onetwothreegone]

Tough call. You also open yourself up (as a distributor and developer) to people trying to crack and pirate your product doing this without any chance or really figuring the culprit. Sad, but true.

 

We've gone back and forth on this internally for a long time. Maybe one day it will happen, but not now.

I bought a payware plane at the .org store a few weeks ago. I like the plane, but the plane was not protected in anyway, shape, or form.

Any ten year old could have uploaded the plane to a torrent. A serial code system did not exists on that file. I also believe that some of the files on your store do have a serial system already? I don't know for sure how hard it is to crack one of those right now. But if those serial code systems work, then it should not be to hard to make a demo mode right?

Maybe you can have a online plane model viewer, where you can walk around and inside the model online. The model viewer is online so you should'nt be able to crack it without a lot of work. In the online model viewer you could also look at the different liveries. You could make the model viewer in say Unity3d which is a free 3d game programming software, it can also do online things.

[Cameron]

I bought a payware plane at the .org store a few weeks ago. I like the plane, but the plane was not protected in anyway, shape, or form. Any ten year old could have uploaded the plane to a torrent. A serial code system did not exists on that file. I also believe that some of the files on your store do have a serial system already? I don't know for sure how hard it is to crack one of those right now. But if those serial code systems work, then it should not be to hard to make a demo mode right? Maybe you can have a online plane model viewer, where you can walk around and inside the model online. The model viewer is online so you should'nt be able to crack it without a lot of work. In the online model viewer you could also look at the different liveries. You could make the model viewer in say Unity3d which is a free 3d game programming software, it can also do online things.

 

I don't think you're understanding what I said. 

 

3D viewing online vs. demos are really two different things as well. Yes, we do have serial systems, but with that comes further risk for any hacker. They have to first purchase the goods they are after to have a "crack" at it. They would also be subjecting themselves to be known. A demo of any limited measure due to plug-in programming can be hacked if one knew what they were doing or tried hard enough without any fall back or risk on their part.

 

We've also looked at the 3D viewers in the past just as a "cool" feature, but this is also what screenshots are for. I think most people are looking for performance testing when it comes to demos. A 3D viewer cannot accomplish this.

 

In any case (at least from our side), the answer to your proposition is "not now."

[JimboG]

I have to agree with Cameron I'm afraid.

 

A "demo" in a lot of cases once compromised can be then compromised globally for anyone looking for the.... compromise.

 

Look at JailBreaks for iOS devices to give a "modern" analogy. And generally speaking it's not possible to release "half a product" for demos, it's either feature complete or it's not. Unless the longevity of a product revolves how many "levels" it's got you can't really release the "gameplay" and then expect people to pay full price.

 

Demos have their place certainly, but its based on a strategy, which is in turn based on economies of scale unfortunately.

 

For me, the best 3D viewer out there is........................... YouTube.

 

If you're not sure, wait for someone else to buy it, someone else to love it, someone else to upload a cool 1080P HD video with 120fps and TrackIR integration with a really cool soundtrack that makes your leg twitch for the wallet - THEN its buying time!!!

 

Or if you can't wait, do you research, take a punt and buy it.

 

Something not paid for has no value. If you've paid for something you're much more likely to look after it, or try to learn how to use it. Trust me. I used to be a teenager that at one point thought it was possible to download the entire world and read every web page. (What can I say, I was keen!)

 

Another favorite quote of mine, used it this morning while speaking with my wife who wanted to buy some more Tupperware:

 

"Don't buy just any shit - buy cheap, buy twice."

 

Just my thoughts. Demos have their place. But not all the time.

 

Last year I tried the XP10 demo for 10 mins and binned it - to go to MS Flight. Wow.

 

The 10 mins wasn't "enough" if you can believe that. In the end I bought the damned thing and got involved.

 

Cheers

 

James

[Sgt R Lee Ermey]

I second this.  I'm a huge advocate of try before you buy.  Sometimes you buy something and realize its just not for you and there you've blown the money you earmarked for the month and its wasted. 

 

Mind you if some planes were $5-10 I'd think differently but most are $30+

Edited February 5, 2013 by Sgt R Lee Ermey

[JimboG]

I second this.  I'm a huge advocate of try before you buy.  Sometimes you buy something and realize its just not for you and there you've blown the money you earmarked for the month and its wasted. 

 

 

I concur. And in almost all cases the times I "wasted" my money were due to not doing my research properly. Conversely, the times I have got more joy than $30 could ever buy me (no jokes please, I'm English!) was down to putting in some effort either before the purchase to make sure I really did "want it" or invest a decent amount of time post-sale.

 

A case in point is the J32 from Javier - if I am going to get more out of it I am going to have to learn how to fly the darn thing properly - so last week I was learning radio navigation - for the first time ever. (Ruined by FMCs!)

 

But in doing so I can't stop flying it - must have put 30 hours into it already - its already paid for itself. (Plus the other 20+ for the checklists!)

 

That said, call me Devil's Advocate here:

 

Mind you if some planes were $5-10 I'd think differently but most are $30+

 

How many times have I "thrown away" $3 here and $3 there on the Apple App Store buying *not crap* but unused apps for my iPad?

 

I have no idea, but I bet I've "thrown away" a couple of hundred dollars over the past couple of years.

 

Cheers

 

James

Edited February 5, 2013 by JimboG

[Bobback]

Probably 3D viewing even online could be worst than a demo. Would not be good as a demo, and possible easier to crack, lets say you had to download the airplane (full model) to open it on a 3D viewer, then in no time people would "learn" on how to export it to X-Plane. While i would like to try it before buying, i don't have an idea on something that could work, avoid piracy but at the same time be good as a demo.

 

JimboG said above, the best way to see the aircraft before buying is... Youtube.

 

Now MSFS is dead, a lot of people are going to start flying on XP10 (like me) and also a lot of people will go to Prepar3D. And there is always new users starting. For now, my only hope is that every day more and more virtual pilots come to XP-10 and maybe after some time with a bigger community the payware sales number can increase a lot and their prices may go lower. Thats what i hope, it won't be faster, but may happen.

[greggerm]

Even in the MSFS world, there were very few demos of products....

 

Instead of demos, a sales model adopted by Flight1 is in order. An honest to goodness 30-day money back guarantee on your purchase. Not satisfied? Return it. They revoke your rights to use it, you remove the software under "oath", and you get your money back. I've had to take advantage of this two times - once for a utility package which did not perform at all, and another for an aircraft which despite it's marketing hype, did not live up to my standards or needs.  No worries.

 

Few software merchants take this road, as they fear it would be abused... but for those of us with a modicum of honesty, it's one of the greatest things going and has given me the "courage" to purchase many addons which I otherwise would not have because I knew I could reverse gears if needed.

 

-Greg

[guym-p]

To lock a demo properly, so it really could not be pirated, there would have to be a way to encrypt the object files too. I don't think that would be to anyone's advantage.

Instead, perhaps the thing to do is to persuade developers to publish clear references with any screen shots or videos (hardware used, plug-ins or scenery loaded). That way the watcher knows whether the aircraft is likely to run well and look good on their system, or struggle and stutter.

[Ben Russell]

"I won't buy anything with drm"

...vendor...

"I won't buy without a demo version."

...there is no winning move.

[giacer]

I think a good demo, would be to introduce the aircraft, with a nice-serious video.
with no special effects ... start-up, handling, advanced features, flight instrument at work etc..

Showing for last the exterior model...we fly inside the aircraft!

[Sgt R Lee Ermey]

"I won't buy anything with drm" ...vendor... "I won't buy without a demo version." ...there is no winning move.

 

Yeah there is.  A demo is a snippet or snapshot or trial of a product.  DRM is a method that requires the internet all the time for you to use their product.  It opens the door for many many bad things to happen.  Anything that requires a user account to log into to use a piece of software that I 'buy' it complete and utter bullshit.  Unless it is a purely online game you should not have to give away any personal information about you or your computer. 

 

Example I purchased Silent Hunter 5,  I went on vacation for 2 weeks camping but I brought my laptop.  On a rainy day we were stuck inside the camper and I wanted to play it.  I couldn't because I needed an internet connection.  What kind of bullshit is that? 

 

Over the years I've tried demos and purchased games right away after that.  That method WORKS.  I've spend thousands of dollars from the commodore 64 onward on games.  If I'm undecided I try the demo first. 

Edited February 6, 2013 by Sgt R Lee Ermey

[Ben Russell]

Bullshit. Do some research.

[Bobback]

I think a good demo, would be to introduce the aircraft, with a nice-serious video.

with no special effects ... start-up, handling, advanced features, flight instrument at work etc..

Showing for last the exterior model...we fly inside the aircraft!

I like that too, and much more because as you said.... we fly inside the aircraft. 

Hate when i see some beautifull aircrafts but then i only see pictures/videos showing the aircraft from outside... its just to discover (later) that there is no 3D cockpit.

Well, thats what happens with most freewares, but since they are freewares i haven't expend any money, but for a paywware, i'll never buy before seeing it inside (first priority) and outside.

[scubajuan_new]

I think a good demo, would be to introduce the aircraft, with a nice-serious video.

with no special effects ... start-up, handling, advanced features, flight instrument at work etc..

Showing for last the exterior model...we fly inside the aircraft!

Totally agree. Look at Javier's Aircraft, particularly the CRJ200, The videos that preceded it's release were sufficient to know what to expect from the purchased copy. Yes I know he has a good computer set up running at max settings and such, and when I finally got it, I was a bit disappointed with the performance on my machine. I was running XP9 on a MacBook Pro core2duo 2GB RAM and 512GB graphics card, there was a system test to see if the plane would run on your machine to avoid disappointments, and mine passed. Now I have a better computer running XP10.20r1 and I haven't payed for any of the product updates that have been steadily coming out, and every time I fly it I like it even more, same plane. The same applies for every single product I have gotten at X-Aviation and unfortunately I can't say the same for product acquired somewhere else.

 

One thing is to test drive a program like X-Plane or any software out there and another is to test a single add on. I rather have a healthy bunch of developers happy, making good products and updating their previous releases, than seeing them getting hurt by finding their work on a bit torrent and watching them go down in flames.

 

Any products available at X-Aviation, and other respectable sites, offer good support. You can ask any questions regarding the product in their dedicated forums and the developing team will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have. It is up to us as consumers to do a bit of research before buying and refrain from impulse, perhaps wait a little until some of the issues are worked out. Usually reviews from respectable dudes come out soon after the product is released, users post screen shots and videos and write their first impressions.

 

If you can get cracked versions of software from people like Mcafee, Norton, Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, etc. I don't think there is a pirate proof solution and doubt that will ever be.

[Sgt R Lee Ermey]

Personally I think developers unwilling to allow "try before you buy" as shady and not confident in their product.  They'll gladly take your money even if people are unhappy about the quality or didn't get what they expected.  If I did good work I'd offer it up gladly for people to try, although in a limited fashion so they have to buy it if they like it.  Demos worked until the file sizes started getting a little absurd.  But I still use them to this day.  I tried a couple on my ps3 before I wanted to decide to fork out $60 for a game. 

[Cameron]

Personally I think developers unwilling to allow "try before you buy" as shady and not confident in their product.  They'll gladly take your money even if people are unhappy about the quality or didn't get what they expected.  If I did good work I'd offer it up gladly for people to try, although in a limited fashion so they have to buy it if they like it.  Demos worked until the file sizes started getting a little absurd.  But I still use them to this day.  I tried a couple on my ps3 before I wanted to decide to fork out $60 for a game. 

 

Nothing wrong with you playing it safe and voting with your wallet! I'd imagine you're missing out on a lot of good in the end, but it's your money and you can spend it how you wish!

[Sgt R Lee Ermey]

FYI this was not directed at any one person.  I'm just saying a lot of people who are confident in their product are willing to let people try it.   I try to research as much as I can when it comes to this stuff. I'm ready to give a couple a try as soon as I assemble my new computer and the 64bit version is complete.. and vendors are caught up.