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[OPEN] CTD on start in VR, also with V1.1.0


Sleepy81

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Has been reported before during initial release, but I still get CTD when clicking on "Career mode" (FBO turned off in settings) or "Non-persistent mode", so i'd like to report it again to ensure the DEVs know its still an issue.

Today I tried to do a full clean reinstall of X-plane, and start with no mods whatsoever, besides the CL650.

Also tried to use both the Vulkan and OpenGL graphics modes. CTD in both cases.

 

Logs attached.

LOG OpenGl Graphics.txt LOG Vulcan Graphics.txt CL650_Log - OpenGL Graphics.txt CL650_Log - Vulcan Graphics.txt

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Unfortunately, and I know this isn’t what you wanted to hear, but to my amateur eye (not an X-Plane developer, etc.) these crashes all seem to be caused by X-Plane itself, not code within the CL-650 itself. Without more detail in the log there’s not much the addon developers can go on. Maybe @Cameron has some tricks up his sleeve? But in the mean time it might be worth contacting Laminar Research’s support: https://www.x-plane.com/support/

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I've thought the same, as the logs don't tell you much about what went wrong.  CL650[except.c:213]: Caught EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION does not tell me anything besides "something went wrong"

However, the CL650 is the only aircraft that doesn't work in VR for me, and the only one who gives a CTD on start. So that leads me to think that the CL650 has some part in this as well...

Edited by Sleepy81
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Updated to V1.2.2 today. Still same problem. I'm at a loss as to why I can't start the CL650 in VR on my machine. I have also done the following steps to try and get it to work:

- Ensured all my graphic drivers and windows updates are up to date.

- Installed a new 2TB M.2 SSD

- Uninstalled X-plane and all addons.

- Installed X-plane from scratch on new SSD. (Previously installed under C:/Program Files (x86) as that's the default Steam install location. Read on a forum that that might cause issues with file permissions, so therefore I installed it on a non-system drive.)

- Installed only the CL650 V1.2.2

- Tried to start in VR, and also start in 2d, then change to VR. Same CTD.

- Tried to start Steam with admin rights.

- Tried to start X-plane with admin rights.

 

So, I'm at a loss. Anybody have any ideas as to what to try next? I have contacted Laminar Research for support, but no answer yet.

 

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  • Graeme_77 changed the title to [OPEN] CTD on start in VR, also with V1.1.0

So i got a reply from Laminar Research today, and this is what they wrote:

“Thanks for your report. We have some feedback which you could maybe share with developers.

Essentially we have looked at the Backtrace for your crash. Apparently, this backtrace is wild  

If I had to guess, it's one of Sasos 90 threads breaking apart

Since we have no visibility into it”

Somewhat difficult to understand what they mean, and almost like part of the answer is missing, but to me (I’m not a programmer), it looks like they are saying that they think the “Sasos 90 threads” (are they referring to Saso Kiselkov Librain plug-in here? I don’t have that installed, but maybe the CL650 has it integrated?) are breaking apart, but they cannot verify since they have no visibility into it. 

Does this answer say anything to the devs or somebody else here?

Edited by Sleepy81
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2 hours ago, Sleepy81 said:

So i got a reply from Laminar Research today, and this is what they wrote:

“Thanks for your report. We have some feedback which you could maybe share with developers.

Essentially we have looked at the Backtrace for your crash. Apparently, this backtrace is wild  

If I had to guess, it's one of Sasos 90 threads breaking apart

Since we have no visibility into it”

Somewhat difficult to understand what they mean, and almost like part of the answer is missing, but to me (I’m not a programmer), it looks like they are saying that they think the “Sasos 90 threads” (are they referring to Saso Kiselkov Librain plug-in here? I don’t have that installed, but maybe the CL650 has it integrated?) are breaking apart, but they cannot verify since they have no visibility into it. 

Does this answer say anything to the devs or somebody else here?

They’re talking about the CL-650’s systems, specifically (which don’t have Librain integrated at this time). But I really don’t understand how they came to that conclusion from the logs you posted here (assuming they saw the same ones), but I’m no expert. You may have to just not fly in VR, sad to say.

Just curious, what does the “--force_vr” command line option do exactly?

Edited by Pils
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Yeah, this is really strange. I asked Laminar some follow up questions with regard to I Sasos90 was referring to Librain, and if I was correct in assuming they have no insight into that. 
 

This is what they answered:

 That was the developers guess, that the problem is with Sasos 90. I believe you're correct there, it's part of the plugin/library you mention. That's also correct, exact details of what's causing the issue isn't apparent on Backtrace/ and or we don't have access to the code.”

So they are saying they have been in contact with Hotstart developers, and they where the ones thinking it might be Librain/Sasos related. Did any of the developers here talk to them about this?

 

I’ll try and lower texture quality (if I remember correctly it’s set to High, but I’ll try lower just to test.), but I do have a 3080TI with 12GB VRAM. As it CTD on a clean install of x-plane, I don’t think that could be the reason?

Edited by Sleepy81
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2 hours ago, Sleepy81 said:

So they are saying they have been in contact with Hotstart developers

No, I think “developers” in this context are the X-Plane developers; the response is being written from the point of view of the technical support person. They still provide no actual reason to think it’s Hot Start’s code, they just don’t want to deal with their own bugs. Plus Librain is not part of the addon at this time.

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That makes sense. I understand that there is no indication of the CL650 causing the CTD in the logs, but still this is the only aircraft this is happening with, and it’s 100% reproducible on my computer, i.e. it happens every time.  
So either the CL650 is causing x-plane to crash due to a bug in the CL650 code, or the CL650 is triggering some x-plane bug.

Tried to lower texture resolution to see if it was a VRAM issue. In fact I lowered everything to minimum, and still the same issue. 
 

I’m at a loss as to what to try next… I have tried everything I can think of, and it’s always the same problem. 

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Yes, it works perfectly fine in “pancake” mode! :) Good framerates with all plugins and custom scenery. So that works fine! Problem is, once you’ve gone VR, especially on a late model headset with excellent FOV and good resolution, you never want to play on a screen again. When you fly in VR, you feel like a pilot in the cockpit. When I fly on a screen I feel like a I’m playing on a computer at home. :) That’s why I really want to get this working in VR…

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@Sleepy81

I had a Pimax8KX - it worked fine with the CL650.

Are you starting Xplane with VR already enabled, or are you clicking career / non persistent and then loading VR. Note, with the CL650 you must enable VR AFTER using this menu. Best method is to bind a keyboard or joystick button to enable/disable VR. Load it up after you leave the FBO...

What are your SteamVR settings? Have you tried a clean re-install of it?

Do you have parallel projections enabled (you need to)

What are you xplane settings?

Are you using Large, Normal, Small etc... FoV?

What have you got set supersampling-wise?

There is another setting, I don't recall the name, that sets between (IIRC) 0.5 and 2x - it's some form if rendering option in PiTool... what have you got it set to?

Are you using native or upscaling in PiTool?

Any settings configured in nvidia inspector or otherwise that affect settings...?

Edited by severniae
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Thanks for the pointers. I run no SS and no SSAA, so basically the default full resolution of the 8kx is being rendered. I have also tried to run the sim with every setting sett to minimum or off, and it still CTDs when entering VR the second time. So it seems strange that it should then eat up 12GB if VRAM. But maybe x-plane does not “release” the VRAM correctly when exiting VR, and it just filles up on the next entry into VR? 
 

Anyways, it’s working fine now. Nice 30+fps even with ortho and Global Traffic, so I’m happy that at least there is a walk around that works for me now. 

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2 hours ago, Sleepy81 said:

Thanks for the pointers. I run no SS and no SSAA, so basically the default full resolution of the 8kx is being rendered. I have also tried to run the sim with every setting sett to minimum or off, and it still CTDs when entering VR the second time. So it seems strange that it should then eat up 12GB if VRAM. But maybe x-plane does not “release” the VRAM correctly when exiting VR, and it just filles up on the next entry into VR? 
 

Anyways, it’s working fine now. Nice 30+fps even with ortho and Global Traffic, so I’m happy that at least there is a walk around that works for me now. 

Try disabling VR, then close down and restart steam VR.

Yes I suspect there is a memory leak or similar when entering/exiting VR. I really hope it has received some attention in XP12.

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