Sleepy81

No response since march last year on the development of VR… any improvements coming?

Had the CL650 on XP11 when it came out, but migrated to MSFS partially because I had several issues getting the 650 to work in VR. I could live with the FOB not working in VR, but I had so many CTDs and issues I spent more time trying to get it working than flying. But almost two years have passed, and XP12 is now out. What is the experience with the CL650 in VR on XP12 now? Smooth and stable? CTD issues? Does the FOB work? walkaround?

Thanks for the pointers. I run no SS and no SSAA, so basically the default full resolution of the 8kx is being rendered. I have also tried to run the sim with every setting sett to minimum or off, and it still CTDs when entering VR the second time. So it seems strange that it should then eat up 12GB if VRAM. But maybe x-plane does not “release” the VRAM correctly when exiting VR, and it just filles up on the next entry into VR? Anyways, it’s working fine now. Nice 30+fps even with ortho and Global Traffic, so I’m happy that at least there is a walk around that works for me now.

Figured out a workaround, so I'll link it here, in case somebody else with the same problem stumbles across this issue I was having.

I figured it out! So, Apparently there is an x-plane bug that affects me. I cannot re-enter VR in X-plane after having been in VR during the same session. So, If I go from 3D -> 2D ->3D , then I get a CTD 100% of the time, regardless of which aircraft I use, or when I enter VR the second time. So, I've been starting up X-plane in VR from the get go, as this has worked on all other aircraft, and just stayed in VR the entire time. With the CL650, I tried to start using 2D mode, but for whatever reason it always tries to start X-plane in VR mode (initializing VR) on the first load screen, even when selecting 2d mode from the Steam Launch options. Even if my googles where powered off, and it failed to enter VR, and defaulted to 2d, it apparently "burned" my one shot of getting into VR for that session. So when I tried to enter VR after having entered the CL650 cockpit, it CTDed. So, then I figured I hade to double check everything, and really make sure x-plane did not try and initialize VR until I was in the cockpit. So, this is what I did: 1. Enter X-plane, ensure VR is off in the settings. 2. Quit Xplane. 3. Quit Steam just to make sure that any part of SteamVR services are not "lingering" in the system. 4. Start X-plane from the .exe file 5. X-plane now starts in 2d mode, and does not try and initialize VR. 6. Get in the CL650 cockpit in 2d mode. 7. Enable VR mode from the settings menu, and presto, CL650 in glorious 3d VR! Thanks to all that have helped, and hopefully this post might help others who might have the same issue! Now, I just need to remember to turn off VR mode in X-plane settings each time I quit to avoid having to do points 1. and 2. above every time I want to fly the CL650. And I hope HotStart can make the entire experience compatible with VR, (FBO/Career/Non-persistent selection menu etc. etc.) compatible with VR so I can stay in VR from the start, and never needing to be in 2d mode.

Thank you!

Yes, it works perfectly fine in “pancake” mode! Good framerates with all plugins and custom scenery. So that works fine! Problem is, once you’ve gone VR, especially on a late model headset with excellent FOV and good resolution, you never want to play on a screen again. When you fly in VR, you feel like a pilot in the cockpit. When I fly on a screen I feel like a I’m playing on a computer at home. That’s why I really want to get this working in VR…

Do you have a Pimax 8kx? And are you using it successfully with the CL650? If so, would you mind telling me what firmware you are using in the Pimax, as well as other relevant specs. I’m having trouble getting the CL650 to start in VR on my Pimax (see attached link), so trying a Hail Mary post here to see if I can find something amiss on my computer.

That makes sense. I understand that there is no indication of the CL650 causing the CTD in the logs, but still this is the only aircraft this is happening with, and it’s 100% reproducible on my computer, i.e. it happens every time. So either the CL650 is causing x-plane to crash due to a bug in the CL650 code, or the CL650 is triggering some x-plane bug. Tried to lower texture resolution to see if it was a VRAM issue. In fact I lowered everything to minimum, and still the same issue. I’m at a loss as to what to try next… I have tried everything I can think of, and it’s always the same problem.

Yeah, this is really strange. I asked Laminar some follow up questions with regard to I Sasos90 was referring to Librain, and if I was correct in assuming they have no insight into that. This is what they answered: “ That was the developers guess, that the problem is with Sasos 90. I believe you're correct there, it's part of the plugin/library you mention. That's also correct, exact details of what's causing the issue isn't apparent on Backtrace/ and or we don't have access to the code.” So they are saying they have been in contact with Hotstart developers, and they where the ones thinking it might be Librain/Sasos related. Did any of the developers here talk to them about this? I’ll try and lower texture quality (if I remember correctly it’s set to High, but I’ll try lower just to test.), but I do have a 3080TI with 12GB VRAM. As it CTD on a clean install of x-plane, I don’t think that could be the reason?

Quick update: still no change with v1.2.3

Same logs as here, but they also had access to the crash report .rpt file. Maybe they found it there. —force_VR is probably something Steam inserts when you select “play using SteamVR” when starting the game from Steam.

So i got a reply from Laminar Research today, and this is what they wrote: “Thanks for your report. We have some feedback which you could maybe share with developers. Essentially we have looked at the Backtrace for your crash. Apparently, this backtrace is wild If I had to guess, it's one of Sasos 90 threads breaking apart Since we have no visibility into it” Somewhat difficult to understand what they mean, and almost like part of the answer is missing, but to me (I’m not a programmer), it looks like they are saying that they think the “Sasos 90 threads” (are they referring to Saso Kiselkov Librain plug-in here? I don’t have that installed, but maybe the CL650 has it integrated?) are breaking apart, but they cannot verify since they have no visibility into it. Does this answer say anything to the devs or somebody else here?

No same with other headsets as well. My Pimax (SteamVR or OpenXR) does the same thing. Pretty much instant CTD if I switch from 2d to 3D in x-plane. To be sure VR works I have to start in SteamVR mode and stay in VR the entire time.

Updated to V1.2.2 today. Still same problem. I'm at a loss as to why I can't start the CL650 in VR on my machine. I have also done the following steps to try and get it to work: - Ensured all my graphic drivers and windows updates are up to date. - Installed a new 2TB M.2 SSD - Uninstalled X-plane and all addons. - Installed X-plane from scratch on new SSD. (Previously installed under C:/Program Files (x86) as that's the default Steam install location. Read on a forum that that might cause issues with file permissions, so therefore I installed it on a non-system drive.) - Installed only the CL650 V1.2.2 - Tried to start in VR, and also start in 2d, then change to VR. Same CTD. - Tried to start Steam with admin rights. - Tried to start X-plane with admin rights. So, I'm at a loss. Anybody have any ideas as to what to try next? I have contacted Laminar Research for support, but no answer yet.

I've thought the same, as the logs don't tell you much about what went wrong. CL650[except.c:213]: Caught EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION does not tell me anything besides "something went wrong" However, the CL650 is the only aircraft that doesn't work in VR for me, and the only one who gives a CTD on start. So that leads me to think that the CL650 has some part in this as well...

I absolutely love this product, even though I can't get it to start in VR (yet...). he v1.1.0 fixed a lot of bugs and issues, but I know there are still several open, as well as talks of new features to be implemented later (Wx radar, CPDLC etc.). So that got me thinking, does a "roadmap" for future patches exist, or could it be made? I know that setting a timeframe is probably problematic and maybe not desired, but even a list of what to expect with regards to bug fixes and new features for the next patch or two would be greatly appreciated. If I for example saw that the next patch mentioned VR fixes, then I could relax a bit and just wait for that, instead of me spending hours trying to get it to start in VR by shear luck or trial and error approach.

Has been reported before during initial release, but I still get CTD when clicking on "Career mode" (FBO turned off in settings) or "Non-persistent mode", so i'd like to report it again to ensure the DEVs know its still an issue. Today I tried to do a full clean reinstall of X-plane, and start with no mods whatsoever, besides the CL650. Also tried to use both the Vulkan and OpenGL graphics modes. CTD in both cases. Logs attached. LOG OpenGl Graphics.txt LOG Vulcan Graphics.txt CL650_Log - OpenGL Graphics.txt CL650_Log - Vulcan Graphics.txt

Exactly as I hit TOD, the monitor went black and my PC rebooted. Now, this might be a random fault with the PC, even though it has never happened like this before (with no blue screen or nothing), but when I started x-plane again to resume the flight, the tail number I flew was gone from the list of available aircraft in career mode. Just vanished… Anybody else had their aircraft disappear after a crash/reboot?

Disregard, I believe I found the answer here: https://forums.x-pilot.com/forums/topic/22357-online-flying-custom-altimetry/

Was climbing to FL350 when ATC (Pilot2ATC) starter to tell me to decent FL350… I was still climbing through FL330… So I started checking when I leveled off at FL350. P2ATC reported me at 37600 feet on QNH 1013/29.92. I then started to troubleshoot aboard the jet, and found through the study menus that all IRSes, GPS, FMCs showed an altitude of about 11300m, which equates to around 37300 feet. So P2ATC is getting the “correct” data, but for some reason the Pilot Dislpay shows 35000 feet on STD QNH. Tried to reset altimeter settings, but to no avail. Co-pilot display also shows FL350. Anything I’m doing wrong here, or a bug?

Ok, guess I had a catastrophic failure then, even though the aircraft was brand new and had only flown about 4 hrs. Seams kind of strange, but if you guys simulate random catastrophic failures, even the ones with extremely large MTBFs, then I guess I could have drawn a (un)lucky number. It for sure was not overstressed by maneuvering (on AP entire flight) or overspeeding. Still does not explain why AP commanded 30deg right bank the entire time, and why the copilots yoke was fully deflected right, and did not move when I moved my joystick. To me it looks more like there was a AP issue, and the AP commanded full right aileron, and somehow locked up when it reached 30 deg AOB. But if this happens again I still don’t understand how to check what went wrong. So assume it happens again: AC crashes, I go to the maintenance manager and all component’s say “too damaged for repair” (ie. no way of knowing what broke first.), do I then create a new airframe and then go into the maintenance manager and it will show which components where broken prior the crash?

CTD on decend to OMDB. Approx 8-9000 feet at 250kias, on NAV and VNAV with ATS SPEED. Was changing scales on the MFDs, then opened Traffic Global Radar screen. Shut down radar screen, panned view left to look at traffic 9NM away, then x-plane "paused" (not a normal pause, but graphics stopped, sound still there) for about 2 sec. Then started to work again for another 2 sec, then CTD. Backtrace is: 0 00007FF6B7C72603 C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+0000000000E62603 () 1 00007FF6B7C72670 C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+0000000000E62670 () 2 00007FF6B7C72670 C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+0000000000E62670 () 3 00007FF6B7C72670 C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+0000000000E62670 () 4 00007FF6B7C72A5E C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+0000000000E62A5E () 5 00007FF6B7C7310A C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+0000000000E6310A () 6 00007FF6B79360A8 C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+0000000000B260A8 () 7 00007FF6B72D4068 C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+00000000004C4068 () 8 00007FF6B730C34B C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X-Plane 11\X-Plane.exe+00000000004FC34B () 9 00007FFFE5077034 C:\Windows\System32\KERNEL32.DLL+0000000000017034 () 10 00007FFFE5762651 C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll+0000000000052651 () --=={This application has crashed!}==-- Log.txt CL650_Log.txt

I tried to check it after the crash, but all it said for all the components (including airframe) was “aircraft too damaged for repair” or something to that effect. Is/was there a way for me to check what was broken after the crash, when the entire airplane suffered like 250Gs and everything is broken? I do run Ortho4XP there, but then again I was about 10.000 feet above the terrain (at least the visible terrain (it was CAVOK at the time), so unless there are some calculations of terrain that is wrong (and not visible) it shouldn’t be that. Maybe will not figure this one out. But I’ll report back if it happens again.

Would like one as well. Owner of both CL650 and TBM900.