Replacements for 430/530 from Garmin...touch screen!

[tkyler]

Interesting reading on the future

http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-03-24_GarminGTN750-650.asp

[Jack Skieczius]

Coming from a 172 pilot now,

All these new features, with the touch screen is cool, but doesn't the 430/530 already have all the features you could possibly need in a small GA? I am not old school or anything, but i know first hand how all that busy displays can be a distraction.

I wonder if Garmin will have a book at sun n fun next week. if so maybe i can try these out first hand and get back to you all.

[Jack Skieczius]

ok, i see one benefit i like, and that is having the sectional chart right there on the display, BUT for only a fraction of the cost i could have that on an ipad.

[whiskeyportal]

ok, i see one benefit i like, and that is having the sectional chart right there on the display, BUT for only a fraction of the cost i could have that on an ipad.

Except that an iPad isn't very reliable or accurate. I was torn between the iPad and a 696. Here's a side by side comparison

Needless to say I went with the 696.

[Ben Russell]

I had my ipad crash on me once...

I turned it on, got the unlock PIN number-pad, decided I was in the wrong spot to be entering a password (shoulder surfers) and turned it off again.

Pretty normal use case, you'd think.... I had to "multi hard button" reset the device.

When you can't pull over to the shoulder of the road it's worth paying for certified equipment, that is, after all, why it costs so much.

There's also a bunch of use-case issues with iPad software, I have my ipad mounted to my car dash and can categorically state that ALL the GPS software utterly sucks to use with any sort of mild "turbulence".

Then there's the fact that its basically unreadable in bright sunlight, and the speaker is useless in anything as loud as a town street.

[Jack Skieczius]

Well most of the planes i have flown, already have a GPS in them. So i wouldn't necessarily use the GPS function on the Ipad. What i could use it for is what i use my knee-board for now. That is a place to write down weather from the ATIS/AWOS or squak codes and a fast look up for frequencies i need to know. Better yet, as a way to review and create my flight planes.

I donlt see the need for WX right now in the cockpit. I say this because getting a good weather briefing and calling up FSS has worked for me so far. Also once i had Jacksonville telling me where the rain was ahead of me once on my way back from a long trip. Was not expecting that, which i have to say helped a lot and was free(technically).

What i might do if and when i have the money to purchase an Ipad is try it out first with the ipad, if i feel more adventurous and in need of WX weather and all the extra stuff i would need from a 696 then i may get that, but for three grand, thats pricey.

Ben, have you used your ipad in flight or just in the car?

[Ben Russell]

...Car. But if you can't use it in 2D on an otherwise "very good surface, straight and level road", what hope can you have of using it in 3D when it matters most.

Using muscle memories and haptic perception is infinitely safer than stuffing around with a glarey touch screen you can barely read.

Can you imagine pulling over every time you want to adjust your car stereo volume if the road isn't entirely clear of other traffic? Very tedious.

Don't get me wrong, I love the ipad for quick acces to the net...

When im out and about i only get the laptop out when ive settled in a nice spot to work, but the ipad is used frequently.

Most people designing apps don't do a very good job of human factors and GUI design for actual in motion use.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that everything I've tried so far is crap at it.

The "premium app" shown in the video above has horribly small mode buttons on the bottom of the screen and they appear, at a glace, to have 0 margins between them. A slight jolt and you're off in the wrong mode... The slightest of glare and you CANT EVEN READ the god damn mode labels, on the garmin you just press a hard button in a familiar location, probably without a look, just a confirming glance.

Garmin has deep insight into human factors in the cockpit, everything from colors to layout, to haptics is in the prices you pay.

The best GPS app I have here has decent map colors, even night mode rendering, but the mode buttons are black with white text, on black, and only about 32x50 px in size. You cannot find the button in sunlit conditions. It's a joke.

And then, with the ipad in landscape orientation, if you press "search", you get the search gui in portrait orientation.... which is conveniently 90 degrees rotated from where the device is, so you cant do that either.

iOS apps are seriously inadequate in every way for serious use at this stuff.

Many many hours logged, I bought the ipad specifically for prototyping and human factors work and research for exactly this purpose, I was first to do a moving terrain map in X-Plane after-all.

I can say without any reservation that a real GPS with actual buttons, and dedicated nav data and apps is FAR superior to anything I've tried on the ipad yet.

I find your under appreciation of the weather data value seriously disturbing.

Stay out of the clouds (and darkness...) and this is all you need:

[Jack Skieczius]

I find your under appreciation of the weather data value seriously disturbing.

Stay out of the clouds (and darkness...) and this is all you need:

I think you have misinterpreted something here. I am not sure how things are done elsewhere but here in the states we have several ways of being prepared and able to get updated weather in flight without use of a fancy, three grand or more investment in technology. If not doesn't do a ton of flying, and or not for business, then the NEED for a WX is not something worth 3 grand to me.

Plus there is no excuse to not already be prepared before you even decide to take off. nothing can replace a proper preflight weather briefing.

I can see that some, maybe those who get to comfortable with there WX not even bothering to get a preflight briefing and taking off only to find there WX showing they are now caught between two squalls.

And i am sure Garmin, being the trusted brand they are, is worth the money if you have a NEED for such a thing, but like i mentioned, i wouldn't be using the Ipad in flight for those reasons.

[Simmo W]

Ben, have you used your ipad in flight or just in the car?

I was too late- I would have said Ben uses it in flight, in his car! I've seen him drive his WRX...

Even the iPhone gps is laggy beyond walking pace. All the iPad tools are great and useful, but if I was a real world pilot, I'd never rely on it solely, in case of crash or battery issues. Cool to show the chaps back at the flying club I'm sure!

Its best use is, like Ben says, for reading casually on terra firma, maybe memorizing charts, procedures etc, in a light portable way, better than carrying the whole US AIPs around! Or showing to an instructor and discussing alternatives.

[LA]

I think you have misinterpreted something here. I am not sure how things are done elsewhere but here in the states we have several ways of being prepared and able to get updated weather in flight without use of a fancy, three grand or more investment in technology. If not doesn't do a ton of flying, and or not for business, then the NEED for a WX is not something worth 3 grand to me.

Plus there is no excuse to not already be prepared before you even decide to take off. nothing can replace a proper preflight weather briefing.

I can see that some, maybe those who get to comfortable with there WX not even bothering to get a preflight briefing and taking off only to find there WX showing they are now caught between two squalls.

And i am sure Garmin, being the trusted brand they are, is worth the money if you have a NEED for such a thing, but like i mentioned, i wouldn't be using the Ipad in flight for those reasons.

I've been using XM weather for around three years. Had a Garmin 496 prior to the 696 I have now. Between the 696 & getting a weather outlook from several Internet based websites.....I would say that I have a much more up to date weather picture, than what I'll get from a briefer. I have not called a FSS briefer in years. Having real time weather in the cockpit has been an outstanding feature................and is extremely beneficial in the mountain/desert country that I fly in. Thanks to XM weather, I can get ATIS, ASOS, & AWOS for destination airports hundreds of miles in advance. I also get winds, current TFRs, and altimeter settings............in addition to all those other things that the 696 does.

LA