Steering the Plane after landing

[SirJohn62]

Hello guys,

I have a problem with steering the plane after landing. I am unable to keep the plane on the runway. I have already tried all possible settings in xplane but it does not help. I do not really know what to do yet? Does somebody has any idea?

Greeting SirJohn62

[Greaser]

I have not tried the latest 1.0.9 (yet) but everyone is having this issue. Setting the joystick control sensitivities to zero helps but does not completely fix the ground handling issues.

[SirJohn62]

Okay thank you. I will try it.

[danhenri]

As already discussed elsewhere, the trick is to slowly decrease the power after landing and not to fully retard the throttle ; and, if possible, to set the reverb to the minimum available. By the way, reverb is not often necessary. It works for me, in spite of the use of CH Pro pedals.

Edited November 3, 2018 by danhenri

[SirJohn62]

Okay thank you. I will try it also.

[jeff64]

if you have the problem only after landing (not before takeoff), check Yaw Damper is disconnected.

[fireone]

Fully programmable , hall effect based rudder pedals make a significant difference . Smooth and precise with small movements ,  they allow me to follow the taxi & runway center lines more easily .

one example  https://mfg.simundza.com/products .

 

 

[Greaser]

I hope the Developers can find a way to improve the Ground Handling. I know this is mainly due to X Plane itself, but hopefully they can improve it. It's the only issue I have with this aircraft. 

[PilotGav]

Definitely an X-Plane issue. I wish they'd take it more seriously.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[cmbaviator]

did austin work on that on for the 11.30?

[Muchimi]

I was wondering if more news or tips have come up on the topic of keeping a centerline during the takeoff roll (or landing - same issue).

The slightest - and I do mean - breathing on the rudder or looking at a toe-brake the wrong way takes the plane off course - it's ridiculous.

I ended up creating a profile on my programmable rudders that has the response curve so toned down it's almost flat - and only then does the plane behave.  Yes, my rudders are hall effect and they are quite precise.

I have no such issues with other aircraft, even the Carenado B58 Baron which is known to be a bar of soap on a wet runway is super "tame" compared to this TBM beast.

 

 

 

[Goran_M]

The latest update (1.1.6) has improved ground handling.

[Muchimi]

Thank you Goran - that was with 1.1.6 and the current beta of x-plane 11.32R2.

My special Joystick Gremlin profile for landing/takeoff with an almost flat rudder response on center helps considerably keeping a center line with the rudder trim although it's still twitchy and the slightest offset (such as with a 5kt offset gust of wind) will send me careening off in flames - my usual end-state in the last few weeks with the TBM as you know from my other post.  I'm very familiar with the new airframe button these days - one per flight so far lol as something goes horribly wrong somewhere along the line.   

Part of it is training on my end, part of it is x-plane and part of it is the twitchy nature of the 900.   On the other hand, my TBM is a champion for runway ice-skating competition  - it has no problems doing the triple-lutz on take-off or landing. 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Muchimi

[xpst]

> The latest update (1.1.6) has improved ground handling.

I've said it before, yes, it's better (except that now it's harder to land than before).

In my opinion, handling is still not good. I've been doing a lot of tests with other planes, smaller/slower or larger/faster, and including the Epic1000 G1000 to do comparisons.

I continue to find that the TBM handling just can not be considered "normal" while landing, when sim timing is probably most critical.

The response to trim inputs for example, is visibly much faster and smoother on other planes. So there is probably also too much delay in the other controls, including throttle and braking, which is why landing, toe braking, steering on the ground still makes you look drunk and uncoordinated (well, me at least).

Sorry to say, no way I'm going to be able to do Steveo1kinevo-like landings if Hot Start doesn't do more optimization/tuning :-)

Phew, new airframes are for free ...  ;-)

[Muchimi]

@xpst

I agree - the TBM has easily taken first place with distinction of all my virtual hangar birds for the twitchiest plane in x-plane.    To make me feel better, I took a Saab 340 on the same route I did with the TBM and nailed the takeoff/landing the first time, which was good for my ego after going through one new TBM airframe per flight (note, flight is a misnomer because I seldom get off the ground).   I totally suck with the TBM although it is now markedly better from what it was.  Trim in the green - not helping much

The TBM is very sensitive to wind and it bounces like a "superball" on landing too.  It feels more sensitive to wind than even the C172 which is weird (ok, the 172 is slow and has high wings so that helps). 

One thing to do when you practice is to disable all weather: this makes sure cross-winds and wind gusts aren't a factor and that also helps tremendously.  A 5kt wind from a 30 degree angle causes all sorts of stability issues for me at roll speeds and enough to send me to pasture.  Gusts mean instant death for me at my sorry skill level.

So far what works better for me:

- disable any sort of weather - any wind spells disaster - passengers not allowed to even cough in the cabin 
- ensure trims are in the green, and once you're at gear up, reset the rudder trim pretty quick because it will make the plane hard to keep level
- full tank of gas to put weight on
- max downforce on the front wheel during the roll (which you do want a little bit for all aircraft but I'm talking full bore down pressure here)
- watch the speed on takeoff and approach - higher VR works for me although it's so hard to keep the plane centered that my natural tendency is to pull up at VR which is BAD as it stalls so easily

I'll let you know what works for landing because right now I have (a) few opportunities to take off in one piece reducing the chance of doing a landing (b) oh my - still working on landing without a bounce that sends me completely off course.

This is by far the most challenging plane I've flown in a long time - even landing the DCS F18 in crappy weather at night on a moving postage stamp to catch the #3 wire is a walk in the park compared to this bird lol.
 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Muchimi

[RobW05]

This has been discussed many times and a lot of helpful information can be found in the support forum. 

I for my part have no more problems with ground handling, takeoff or landing. But I needed some practice to get there and also I had to get rid of some bad habits like stop 'flying' the airplane immediately after touchdown.

 

[xpst]

Sure RobW05,

I read all those posts and they help. I like the Hot Start TBM a lot. It's a great plane. Glad you've got it under control. I know all planes in real life or in sims have their quirks which you need to learn about and practice, practice, and practice. And I do.

And there are factors such as PC hardware, X-plane settings, personal perception of things, ways planes are implemented, and many others.

So before making any remarks, I did a lot of testing and my personal perception is that before 1.1.6 my TBM landings were a lot easier to succeed.
Then I compared to other planes, and my experience (in for example the Epic 1000 which is a comparable beast, but others too) is that the simulation is a lot smoother in most other planes, which make the landing unrealistically difficult in the TBM.

Again, the TBM is great, I'm sure it wil become even more fun.

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by xpst

[RobW05]

So now you got me...  

I have not much experience with version 1.1.6, haven't had the time to do more than a test flight with it and for sure I noticed a different behavior in control. 

Now that you mentioned you had better landings before 1.1.6 I hope I will not feel the same after I get back to flying it. 

 

[maub]

Yeah, computers...

I'm experiencing the same. Before the 1.1.6 update ground handling was much better on my end, sure not THAT smooth, but manageable. Now after the update my takeoffs and landings are all over the place. Can't get the airplane to follow the centerline at all.

[Muchimi]

I am getting better at this I swear.

I can actually manage to stay somewhere on the runway by the skin of the teeth half the time now with 1.1.6.   I just have a heck of a time keeping the bird somewhere on the runway (forget the centerline, that's beyond my limited capabilities right now - my goal is to stay on paving generally heading down the runway).   I'm also cheating:  Now using the very wide and 16,000' long runway at KDEN as I need all the space I can get for practice.

 

[xpst]

Yeah, I'm testing on a BIG runway too.

After a few more landings and analysis of the replays...  watching the way the plane behaved when landing... it looked there was much more lift than I would expect in a real plane, which is why it's so hard to put down. But I was alone in the plane, with little fuel.

Taking on a full load of BIG passengers, copilot, cargo and a lot of fuel, and landing went as stevo1kinevo would do it .

Another try in a very light plane, taking off and landing, with no flaps felt easier too. But that's probably not realistic.

Maybe I'll understand how it works in the end.

[Muchimi]

You know it's interesting you mention the lift because my plane "floats" up on approach (I assume this is the new ground effect stuff that Austin discussed) or whenever the ground is really close (about 20 to 50 feet is my guess).  The TBM is not the only plane that does this, but I don't get that much effect in my other aircraft.   

 I stay around 85 kts on approach with full flaps down - I even tried 75kts which got me a speed warning yet I bounce up like a ball, wing drops and I'm done for.

However, getting to VR at 90Kts+ on wide runways in my current focus as my landings should equal my takeoffs (if my math is right).

 

[RobW05]

Hi Muchimi, on the other thread you mentioned you have the experimental flight model checked. 

That may be the biggest part of the problems you are having, because I don't think the TBM support this.

[Muchimi]

Indeed, the experimental model is checked in my case, along with the version of X-plane this is on 11.32R2 (which by itself is I think relevant here).

Since however there is no issue with other aircraft with this mode enabled, I only see this as adding to the conversation, not removing from it.

.

[RobW05]

I just wanted to say that in my opinion there's no point in reporting issues with the TBM running under the experimental flight model because it is not made for that purpose.

https://www.x-plane.com/2018/12/x-plane-11-30-experimental-flight-model-mode/

But of course you can have it enabled if you like.