Black Toggles-Not Enough Contrast

[CDNCAVOK]

Hello, are there any plans to update the color of the toggles on the Overhead Panel, ECS, and Ice protection System? When it is cloudy and in the nighttime I struggle with knowing what position are  my toggles. The Panel Lighting and cockpit lighting does not help either. Unfortunately we cannot feel the position of the toggles

Even when I turn up my brightness and adjust the contrast it does not help much. 

Thank you!

 

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by CDNCAVOK

[Goran_M]

I've sent toto a new texture set for the overhead switches.  I couldn't find a problem for the lower panels on my system, but I could also tweak those.  

Can I ask, is your monitor calibrated correctly?  It looks unusually dark, overall.

[fireone]

I experience the same challenge as CDNCAVOK . Black on black is very difficult to see and I have problems with the controls on pedestal too like throttle , flap position , On my screen they sort of blend into a single amorphous unit .  This is the way Socata does it in real life but  It is surprising Socata doesn't implement color coding for ergonomic reasons . Maybe 3D in real life makes it unecessary whereas a flat screen lessens the distinction between uneven surfaces if they are the same color.

[skiselkov]

IRL there is ambient light scattering going on inside the cockpit, which helps brighten things up quite a bit. That doesn't happen in the sim due to lighting engine limitations. So if we were to just make the surfaces color-accurate as they are IRL, they'd look unusable in the shade. We've tried to strike a balance here, but we might need a somewhat more drastic approach. We'll be looking at some more workarounds for the lighting model in the next update.

[wodyfox]

Works now in 1.0.9 perfect. Can see rocker pretty good with overcast and evening. Ice and environment panels down could also be a little bit better. If not it is ok for me...
Thanks a lot for this @Goran_M

Peter

[CDNCAVOK]

17 hours ago, Goran_M said:

I've sent toto a new texture set for the overhead switches.  I couldn't find a problem for the lower panels on my system, but I could also tweak those.  

Can I ask, is your monitor calibrated correctly?  It looks unusually dark, overall.

Hello Goran, thanks for asking, here is a screenshot. I have an LG Monitor and use their software. I also find all the rotary knobs too dark such as heading, CRS1, ALT SEL etc. I am using V 1.09 but no difference for me from V 1.08.

Edited November 3, 2018 by CDNCAVOK

[Goran_M]

I have to be careful how much I adjust the colors on the panel, because black is notoriously difficult to work with in X Plane.  I'll work with the other panels you mentioned for the next update.  

[CDNCAVOK]

1 hour ago, Goran_M said:

I have to be careful how much I adjust the colors on the panel, because black is notoriously difficult to work with in X Plane.  I'll work with the other panels you mentioned for the next update.  

Thanks Goran. On my last flight I had a generator failure after startup and I believed this was just a bug so I went ahead and flew. I tried to reset the Generator and even switched to Stby but it did not work and eventually my battery completely drained and I only had my AHRS to rely on as I made an Emergency landing. At that point I had to trim the airplane manually and it was very difficult to even see the Trim Wheel because it just blends in with the pedestal. It was a challenge to trim the plane and pump the gear down, but I am alive to tell you about it lol

[fireone]

I've really only noticed the contrast problem , because I'm flying with keyboard and mouse only , no other aids .  

In the beginning this was to avoid problems with plugins  and so forth.

Now that the TBM / X-Plane platform is becoming more stable , it'll be more like business as usual  -> panel switches , Simvim, trim wheels ,etc .  The coloration problem will be much less noticeable   , at least for this desktop driver.

That flap lever tho'  is mighty difficult to see from the seated position  without sunshine in the cabin

[jrw4]

Apologies for reviving an old thread, but I have to concur with those users who find the cockpit textures problematic. I'm using a year-old monitor that has been calibrated for photography and find that it's basically impossible under sunny conditions to make out the button positions, etc., in the shadows. I can understand, of course, the desire to maintain the ambience of the real-world cockpit, but we're all using monitors of limited dynamic range. It's not so much the depth of the black, as it is the lack of contrast in the shadows that make it next to impossible to detect the edge of buttons and knobs, as well as the position  of switches (e.g., the generator). In photography jargon, I think this is a case of "crushing" the blacks.

There's no sense in providing screen shots because they don't convey what I (and others) perceive on the screen to someone else who is looking at a different screen. Some compromise with the real-world may be in order here, perhaps grading the cockpit over a wider range of gray tones in the shadows. 

Good luck--a challenging task.

PS Wonderfully complex a/c. This will take some time to master.

[Goran_M]

I've already lightened the switches to be more easily seen.  I can work with them a bit more, but we're getting into "grey" territory if I do.  So in the shadows, they'll be dark and visible, but when daylight hits them, they'll be very washed out.  

I can work with them a little, but no promises.

[cwjohan]

On 11/3/2018 at 3:55 AM, skiselkov said:

IRL there is ambient light scattering going on inside the cockpit, which helps brighten things up quite a bit. That doesn't happen in the sim due to lighting engine limitations. So if we were to just make the surfaces color-accurate as they are IRL, they'd look unusable in the shade. We've tried to strike a balance here, but we might need a somewhat more drastic approach. We'll be looking at some more workarounds for the lighting model in the next update.

There are some liveries by Razor94 that modify the light switches, putting white dots on the edge that show when the switch is ON.  Probably not realistic, but it is very effective.  Perhaps a config option could turn that feature off for those who want true realism.

Edited February 4, 2019 by cwjohan

[sahib]

1 hour ago, cwjohan said:

There are some liveries by Razor94 that modify the light switches, putting white dots on the edge that show when the switch is ON.  Probably not realistic, but it is very effective.  Perhaps a config option could turn that feature off for those who want true realism.

This overhead texture is exactly what I'm now using on all my liveries. I know it's not realistic, but I too have serious issues seeing the separate switches and their state. The above is a small modification, but it makes a huge difference.

[jrw4]

Thanks so much for the tip regarding the Razor94 liveries. It's now possible to determine the push-button switch status at a glance.

Goran, many thanks for your response. I have tried to compare the TBM900's cockpit visibility with those of other aircraft with dark interiors. I did so by positioning the aircraft at KSFO so that strong daylight came through the pilot's side window that then fell on the left side of the instrument panel. There appears to be something different about the TBM's interior appearance, with both the overhead panel and the autopilot control panel spaces seeming to take on the appearance of black holes. Using a freeware color picker, I found that there were regions of the overhead that had RGB values averaging below 5, which doesn't seem plausible in shadow on a clear day with sunlight streaming into the cockpit.

No doubt there are issues with the LR lighting engine that are way beyond my level of comprehension. For example, I took RGB readings on the 900 at the bezel surrounding the G1000 unit that were around 7 in the shade and near 60 in the sun. If I did the same for the LR Cirrus Vision, the readings were the same, but with the Aerobask Robin, the low value was around 13 and but the high value only 63, i.e., it was about the same in the sun, but much lighter in the shade. 

Finally, I wonder under what circumstances the overhead panel would be exposed to sunlight. Perhaps the autopilot panel would see the sun near dawn and dusk if the sun were at exactly the right angle behind the aircraft, but the light would be relatively dim under that circumstance. If the sun every reaches the overhead, most of us would be far too busy to notice the state of the switches in any case ;).

Anyway, thanks again for all of the hard work that went into this piece of art. It's truly a remarkable achievement.

[Goran_M]

There is actually a custom filter for PBR which gives an indication on whether something is too black or too white, and the blacks are well within the range of acceptable black.  But it's not always the color.  It could also be the reflective properties adding glare when the sun hits the texture, resulting in brightened blacks.  

In any case, I'll experiment a little more and see what I can come up with.