richjb

it's not unusual for corporate pilots to start #2 engine while passengers are walking up and boarding the aircraft. After the copilot gets everyone one on board and closes the door, #1 engine is started. Things work differently in the GA/corporate aviation world than they do the airlines. As a corporate pilot, I'm the flight planner, dispatcher, ground services coordinator, fueling supervisor, de-icing supervisor, baggage loader, catering manager, ground transportation manager, crew accommodations/hotel manager, and lavatory servicing manager (i.e., I sometimes have to dump the honeypot). I've been a corporate pilot since 1988 and love every minute of it. That's why I really like HotStart's CL650! Rich Boll

Hi Pils, Below are two screenshots from the GoFlight Interface Tool from PolyPot Software. The program can read the various joystick and keyboard assignments from X-Plane. With the extensive work that HotStart did with the CL650, I was able to program every FCP function and map it work on the GoFlight MCP Pro. There were a few minor compromises that I had to make, for example I mapped the CL650/FCP/ap_eng to the CWA A and CWA B buttons on the MCP Pro because the B737 does not have a dedicated AP ENG button. Every other button that I have programmed/mapped to a CL650/FCP/ command is working. The only other mapping/assignment/programming issue I'm having problems with is GoFlight Landing Gear Pro module and assigning one of the switches to rudder trim up and down. I have the rudder trim assigned to joystick switch, but I would like to get those two switches back for view control. I'm not sure if I am using the correct assignment for rudder trim left and rudder trim right. The big thing I would like to get is the AP ENG switch to work on the GoFlight MCP Pro. It's the only FCP switch that I cannot activate through the GoFlight MCP Pro. Thanks for your help! Much appreciated!! Rich Boll

It can be surprising how many small differences there are between two very similar aircraft using the same Proline 21 Enhanced avionics platform. I'll dig into the books. I have some Collins contacts that I can ask as well. Rich

I will. Thanks for your help! Standby... Rich

That makes sense. In the CL300/CL350, the AFM is full of "Russian Federation" specific limitations. I appreciate the help with this! Rich

Hi Oisin650, It's not the RNP AR APCH or RNAV (RNP) AR capability. I'm still digging in the manuals, but there is references to "AR airplanes", which might be the same thing. thanks for your help! Rich Boll

Hi Pils, Question, the CL650 does not have a 1000' altitude turn knob option on the FCU? On the CL300/CL350 that I fly, the altitude knob defaults to 1000' increments per each click when turning the knob. If you push in, then it will revert to 100' increments. It will stop at the entered MDA altitude if that is set in the baro selection. If find it interesting that these two airplanes, with nearly identical Proline 21 systems, behave so differently. One other difference I noticed, in HotStart CL650 and I assume in the real CL650, you can pre-set the altimeter setting while in the flight levels and with the altimeter set to 29.92/1013mb. In the CL300/350, we can't do that. Interesting.... Thanks, Rich Boll

Once again, I'm completely blown away by this airplane. I'm trying to put myself through "initial" on it. With that in mind, does the HotStart CL650 model what the AFM calls the "AR Certified Airplanes? Given the level of detail that you folks obviously put into this add-on, and I almost hate to ask, but do you have list of Service Bulletins (SB) that you have incorporated into your model? Now that I have the books for the airplane, I want to make sure I learn it right. Thanks again! Rich Boll Wichita KS

Ok...my bad. Yes, the command CL650/FCP/ap_eng. As it shows in GIT interface tool. I'm still new to X Plane. Thanks Rich

Hi Sunlake, I do not actually fly the CL650, and its systems are completely different from the systems on the CL300/350. I would not be in position to say whether the behavior you describe is correct. Sorry, Rich

So I did another flight today, KLAS to KLAX. Fairly light weight. The SID was the RADYR2, runway 19R, BLAQQ transition. There's an at or below 7000 at DEREW. I only 6000 lbs. of fuel, and climb performance was great. I was going to get to 7000' before DEREW, and VNAV correctly transitioned to VALTV. However, I also got the altitude alert horn at 6000' or so. The ASEL selector was set to the SID top altitude of FL190. I keep getting blown away by the level of detail in HotStart CL650. I just passed this along to a good friend of mine who was Collins's lead instructor training pilot at their Wichita facility. He trained me in the PL4 on the DA2000 and on the PL21 on the CL300/350. He's "retired" now, again flying part time. I told him to take a look at this product. I can't say enough good things about it. I was flying the PMDG stuff because I thought it was the best. No more. MSFS what??? I'll be looking forward to XP12! :-) Rich Boll

That is correct only for the non-Fusion aircraft. The version that you're modeling should TEMP COMP enabled and is not subject to the AD. Neither is my CL300/CL350 with the Proline 21 Advanced FMS SB installed. I remember having live with the older CL300 without the TEMP COMP, and with the 10,000 approaches being removed! <argh>!

I have had excellent luck...more so than any other addon, with getting my GoFlight MCP Pro to work using the PolyPot GoFlight Interface Tool (GIT) to work with CL650. In fact, I get everything to work through GIT except for the AP engage switch using the dataref CL650/FCP/ap_eng. When I assign a key to this reference through the X-Plane Key assignment, it works. When I try to assign it to a GoFlight MCP button using the GIT, it doesn't work. If there is anything unique about this dataref, please let me know. Is the refer you should select assign a joystick button to toggle the AP ENG switch on and off? Thanks! Rich Boll Wichita, KS

Regarding #6, the checklist worked flawlessly yesterday. Could have been a one time glitch. Rich

True, usually on the bottom, but can form on the top which is why the MD80s had heater blankets installed after the SAS accident. Our CL300/350 requires us to check for cold soaked fuel ice on top of the wing in certain conditions. However, you're correct that it's not likely in the conditions you describe. This add-on has amazed me with their level of detail, so nothing right now surprises me. Delights me...yes! Rich Boll

Greetings, I absolutely love flying the CL650! It's the add-on that I've been waiting for. I have noticed a few items that may(?) be wrong or incorrect. I preface this with the fact I do not fly the CL650, but I do fly the CL300/350 with the Proline 21 Advanced. Some things I expect to be different as the 300/350 doesn't have autothrottles. However, some things are common across the Collins line. With that in mind, here goes: 1. With VFLC engaged and with VNAV PLAN SPD ACTIVE, the FMA VFLC Speed shows in Cyan (Blue). The FMA "VFLC" should be magenta. Anytime the FMC is generating the guidance cue, the label is magenta. Anytime the guidance is through manual control from the from flight guidance panel, the label is cyan. So with VFLC and VNAV PLAN SPD ACTIVE, VFLC should be magenta. If you move the SPEED knob, then you've taken manual control of the speed in VFLC and FMA annunciation changes to cyan. VNAV PLAN SPD is no longer active. You have re-activate it to get it go back into CDU and make VNAV PLAN SPD active again. BTW....in the CL300/350, we're not allowed to use VFLC when it is commanding a Mach speed (e.g., 0.78M). Bombardier found out that if the FMS suddenly drops the planned climb speed in Mach, it reverts to the minimum programable Mach speed of 0.50M. Things could get a little exciting if that happens climbing in VFLC and tracking 0.50M. 2. TEMP COMP is ON by default. TEMP COMP should be OFF by default in the FMS. That's Collins standard. In fact, TEMP COMP is not allowed in Collins FMSs that are not to the Fusion FMS level because TEMP COMP can cause dropping of the turn direction on a VA or CA leg in the FMS. The famous 10,000 approach deletion issue from several years ago. 3. Climbing in VNAV and approaching a waypoint with an "at or below" constraint, the altitude alert sounds when 1000' below this constraint. The altitude alert tone sounds only in relation to the altitude set in the pre-selector window (cyan) using the ALT knob. It never sounds due approach or deviating from a VNAV altitude constraint (magenta). 4. I have an older FCOM for the CL605 (not CL650), and it says that the that the A/SKID IN TEST advisory message goes out after 6 seconds. Was this a change in the CL650? 5. LAMP TEST switch … Select 1 does not test lights only on BATT power. Select 2 does test all lights. It's a bit difficult to test using position 2 and then to look up to check the overhead. Some add-ons have a feature that if you select a switch with the mouse by holding the mouse button down, then slide off the switch, the switch stays in the selected position (when a momentary push or movement is what the switch supports) so that you can then move the mouse cursor to active another switch. Felis uses this with the B747 INS key entry when multiple key entries are required (e.g., pushing down the "9" and "7" simultaneously). Just a thought... 6. yesterday, I was having issues getting the checklist to advance and to speak yesterday. I could advance using the CCP's push button, but nothing else. No virtual co-pilot. Also, the joystick binding for checklist advance did not work. Could be one-time glitch... 7. I have a Go-Flight MCP Pro. Using the GoFlight Interface Tool XP, I was able to bind all of the buttons and knobs on this device using the datarefs provided by HotStart. FIRST TIME EVER for an add-on! THANK YOU!!! However, the dataref for CL650/FCP/ap_eng was not working to cycle the AP engage switch. I was able to set a keyboard key to active this switch on the FCP, but I can't get it to control the FCP AP switch through GoFlight using the CL650/FCP/ap_eng. Is there something wrong with this dataref or binding? Am I using the correct one to active the AP switch on the FCP. It's a lousy weather day on the east coast of the US. Guess where I'm going to fly next! :-) Thanks again for making a wonderful X-Plane Addon! Rich Boll

it is because your TRANS ALT is set to 18000? You SPD/ALT LIMIT needs to be in MSL altitude if below 18000. Try changing the TRANS ALT to 8000 and see what happens. Rich Boll

Are they perhaps modeling the effects of cold soaked fuel and wing icing? I would not put it past them given the level of detail here. Cold soaked wing fuel can cause icing on the wing surfaces exposed to the fuel tank at temperatures up to +10C. This has caused accidents, the most famous being the SAS MD 80 back in the 80's. If the wing surface temperature is near freezing due to cold soaked fuel, and the temp/dewpoint are close (I've seen guidance of 3 degree spread) then yes it is possible to get ice on top of the wing surface up to about +10C.

Thanks Graeme! I haven't had the privilege of flying the CL650. I flew the old 600 with Lycoming's way back in 1988, but can't remember squat other than it really few nice! I was much disappointed by the fact that the CL300/CL350 did not fly as nice. That said, the rudder on the CL300 is pretty good and a V1 cut even at light weight, close to VMCG is fairly easy to handle. In most cases, full rudder is not even required. The CL350 is another matter. The extra engine thrust pretty much means go to the stop on a V1 cut. My FlightLink rudders are getting old, and FlightLInk is out of business. Too bad, they were a good company. I have noticed that with right rudder, which I would have been using with a Left engine flameout, does not register to full authority in the X-Plane joystick response curve. Even with the stability augmentation and control response sliders full left, the right rudder at full deflection only goes up to 0.7 or so on the vertical "Y" axis. I have tried everything short of uninstalling and reinstalling. I figure I'll wait for XP12 for that! Thanks again for your help! Rich Boll

Greetings again... I'm bringing this issue to this forum; however, I am fairly certain that it's not an issue with Hot Start 650. Yesterday, I was flying the ILS 19R at KICT: 00987IL19R (faa.gov) I set the FMS up for the ILS 19R and the ICT transition. in the FMS, the LEGS page showed the following waypoints: ICT HOVER P-TURN CFBTT HOVER and the rest of the approach. In the real airplane, the sequence would be ICT HOVER P-TURN HOVER and the rest of the approach. I noticed that Navigraph is including procedure data from the Jeppesen nav-database that they now use for reference. However, from some reason, this incorporation the course centering fix, which is the [CFBTT] on this approach. This waypoint is included in the ARINC 424 specification to support straight-in approaches, i.e., VECTOR option in FMS language. When the VECTOR option is selected the leg sequence is CFBTT HOVER and rest of the approach. CFBTT should be excluded when the procedure turn is included in the leg sequence, for example when the ICT transition is selected. What happens is that the P-TURN leg does not begin until the aircraft is past CFBTT, which means the procedure turn can go out 20 miles from the FAF. Is it a big deal? Not at KICT as you won't hit anything. Out in the western US where procedure turns are shoved down between mountain ridges, yes it will be an issue as the TAWS alerts start going off. I noticed this same behavior in XIBO B737-800 FMS, which leads me to believe that it's Navigraph issue. I thought I would begin asking questions here because you folks seem to know what you're doing, and maybe you can help Navigraph fix the problem. Oh, in case someone asks, you cannot just delete CFBTT. Doing so blows the approach and airplane start tracking strangely. Thanks for your help! Rich Boll

Greetings... First, my compliments on the most complete simulator that I have seen since I first starting using flight simulators from the Sublogic days. I've been corporate aviation for 35 years, and for last 12 I have been flying the Challenger 300 and 350. I've never seen anything like this a flight sim product (X-Plane, FSX, P3D, PS1/PSX, take your pick). I am approaching this airplane as if I am in my first week of ground schools at FSI or CAE. Kudos on that! I have done some flying with it, and one my first tests was to perform a V1 cut. I did it fairly light weight 34K and 38K, standard day, no wind, 1000' PA. V1 speed was 115 KIAS and the engine failure was set to 117 KIAS. With the aircraft on the ground, at the point of engine failure (L Engine Permanent Flameout), the nose yawed just a bit and it did not take a lot of rudder to keep it straight. At VR, I rotated toward the command bar attitude. When she broke ground, the amount of rudder required drastically increased. An increase in rudder is expected leaving the ground, but it was probably excessive from my experience in similar jets in the Level D simulator and even a few V1 cuts in the actual airplane during training. What I noticed most of all was that climbing at V2 speed, which was 133 KIAS, I could not apply enough rudder to center the turn slip indicator, i.e., "the dog house". The best that I could do was a half brick out towards the operating engine. Naturally, there was noticeable left yaw and left heading change that could not be counteracted. In short, the airplane did not have enough rudder authority. For controls, I have a fairly decent rig. I have a PFC Jetliner yoke and the old FlightLink rudders, which are fairly sturdy. In X-Plane, I tried setting the response curve to linear, I set the both stability augmentation and control response to "0", which as I understand should give me full control response. Has anyone else tried a V1 cut? If so, what has been your experience? It might be that I have controller issue. During testing, was rudder authority checked for a V1 cut? Were there any issues? Anything I need to set in the controller setting to improve performance or correct this problem? Really enjoying the Hot Start CL650! Thanks! Rich Boll

With Nav-to-Nav transfer, did you have APP armed? Was APPR LOC and GS showing in white in the scoreboard? I had the same thing happen on the ILS 13 at KHUT flying the HUT transition and after completing the HILPT. Nav-to-Nav worked on my second try at KICT on the ILS 19R from the ICT transition. I had the right armed indications in the scoreboard that time. Not sure why it did not appear on the first approach. Rich Boll

Hi Jan! Thank you for the reply. I can't speak for the airliners as my experience has been in business jets, but all that I have flown have sounded a tone at 1000' off of the ASEL altitude, then an altitude deviation of 300 or 200 feet depending on RVSM certification. Most of later airplanes I've flown sound at 200'. I know that airlines have options configuring this, so this will be change. Then again, good pilots have to adjust to the equipment. It's a minor thing. I could have swore that the earlier version sounded at 900', but then again I might be imagining things. If it could be implemented as an option, that would be great. Really enjoying flying the latest version. I has me much more involved with X-plane. I've been impressed. My biggest fault with X-Plane has always been the lack of good airplanes. IXEG has addressed that! Looking forward to future developments! thanks!! Rich

Hello, I think I picked up a new bug in 1.32 that wasn't present in earlier versions. When approaching your ASEL preselected altitude, for example 10,000', the altitude alert light and tone should sound 900' from that set altitude. For example, it should sound at 9900'. What I am seeing is that the alert light & tone are sounding at about 300 feet prior to the ASEL set altitude. It appears that it is behaving as though it has deviated from the preselected altitude verses approaching the preselected altitude. I did not note this behavior in previous versions, but with ver. 1.32, it is pretty consistent that the altitude alert light & tone do not sound 900' short of the ASEL set altitude when approaching that altitude in a climb or descent. Anyone else seeing this? Thanks! Rich Boll Wichita, KS

Thanks Jan! I appreciate the insight on X-Plane and the roll! Rich