Hangar

So just wondering if both SR22's can be flown 100% using only vr manipulators including the stick and throttle? By the way...since owning one of them will not earn a discount on the other I'm having difficulty understanding which one I'd really prefer to have if only buying one. Is one of the systems better with LPV vertically guided approaches than the other? I'm new to XP12 so I don't even know if it does a good job with LPV vertical guidance these days? Thanks for any suggestions.

There must be hundreds of photo's on hand for a project like this which would not reveal any private information about an individual. Was hoping maybe for a few of those! I fail to see what sharing some info or stories or even a few project photo's need to have anything to do with divulging personal information about anyone...but I'll digress here as I get the feeling that perhaps none of it exists in the first place and I'm likely pushing you up against a wall with this which was never my intentions to begin with. ...I'll let it rest. Looking forward to the project nonetheless and don't intend on letting Coop's hard work go unnoticed!

Coop! Hi!! hehe Any willingness to maybe share some tidbits about the real plane (that the project is based on) to wet my appetite this week? Any pics...or just info...or funny stories..whatever! Don't mean to push but...you know...im home alot these days and going stir crazy :-) (as many of us are)

Looking forward to it, or at least some pics of the real plane. Thanks.

oh,... well I can understand that and as a customer I should probably agree with it too, heh! Ok to ask which plane the project is based on? Whats the tail number?

Great, would love to see and hear about it some more from the team, if possible! I mean, not sure if they planned on doing any of that (ala A2A development videos), but it sure would be entertaining and, im sure, fascinating to watch as well.

All sounds lovely. But lets remember something via lessons learned from other sim planes.... ...while exact numbers are very nice...they often don't do the actual "behavior" much justice. What I mean is that the way a plane feels or reacts is very important (especially on the edges of it's performance i.e takeoffs,approach/landing/flares near stall speeds, etc.). What often happens is that a developer will get the numbers pretty close but the behavior will not be correct, or vice versa...usually in a sim it's a balancing act and near impossible to get both (correct numbers AND behavior/feel). This is especially an issue when the author/s most often aren't even aware of exact behaviors of a specific aircraft in specific situations and rely solely on opinion. I'm just curious but, is there any member of the team who actually owns this plane in RL, or who has access to one for flying as part of this project?

Hi & thank you very much for explaining my findings in regards to the right roll. I had no idea about the fixed tab being aerodynamically simulated. At least now I understand what is causing all that right roll! One quick question about this...is weight a factor in how much tab torque is created and at what speed it begins to occur? I'm asking because I notice the roll actually begins within the speed range you indicated as roll neutral (185kts). At 185kts I begin to roll right and around 190-195kts the roll is significant enough that the plane will not fly safely without correction. If I were heavier weighted would I then be able to attain neutral behavior within that 170-210 (assuming cavok and zero wind conditions of course)? By the way...also appreciate the tip regarding the green trim marker on the MFD. While I'm aware that one typically trims for speed, my mistake was in not realizing the marker is actually a static "banded range" (since its pretty small for my tired eyes) and not knowing the speeds associated with that range (since its not documented in the manual). I was thinking it was dynamic according to weight and that we should center trim in middle of the T/O marker. By the way...I think you left your gear down for that video, otherwise you would have had to pull up alot quicker and higher :-)

Gregg maybe try putting the a/p back on if it ever happens again, if you're high enough maybe it'll be able to save you, heh.

Yea, no...that's all well & good...I get it...but thats not what i see happening here at all...its not like the plane is asking for right rudder and dropping left wing on high power and AoA and then doing the opposite on low power and negative AoA..I'd love that (if it only would actually do that). Instead, it seems like it never asks for any right rudder and is only asking for left rudder...high power climbs? slip ball is left of center...high power climbing right turn? right rudder not indicated, it's just not needed here... also its not dropping right wing during low power descents...its doing it in high power situation where you just wouldnt expect it. It's as if there's no torque effect at all...in fact if I actually edit in just a little bit of negative engine cant then all of a sudden it'll start behaving as you describe...which is good.

well that seems to work for me with alot of weight like you have there...but when i fly with my loadout (1 pilot and nobody else onboard), no baggage and half fuel the plane will insist on pointing its nose up after takeoff to nearly +20 degrees if I dont push down on the yoke or trim down right after gear-up. I'm setting elevator trim at green marker like you show in your clip. Have you tried it with low weights as I described? I have no plugins for my testing and all trims are zeroed out before I take-off (except for elevator trim which is on green marker). 2 different and brand new controllers as well which are well calibrated (honeycomb yoke and T16000M stick) and i get same result with both.

I can confirm the same exact issue here. If you set elevator trim to zero using xplane's output data on screen the MFD actually indicates some down trim is being used. If you use the MFD to set the trim bar near to where the T/O indicator is you'll end up with too much up elevator. So in essence the MFD elevator trim does not seem to be synced correctly...OR we are not understanding it's use. Also...I can tell you that you cannot center the aileron trim or the rudder trim using xplane's keyboard commands (datarefs). By default they are the "6" and "9" keys but they do not center the trim in this plane. I tried changing the key assignments to different keys with no success. Can you please fix this as well? Ooops, almost forgot to ask...I also noticed that the plane tends to roll RIGHT and require LEFT trim in level flight (slip ball sits left of center)...seems it should be the opposite, no?

Really looking forward to the M20 updates and the new SR22 release. I do not yet own a Torquesim product but once the M20 improves its interiors and sounds I'll be buying for sure... ...and as for the Sr22...been waiting forever for someone with the artistic talent and flight experience to bring us a really nice one so my hopes are high with this one as well and can hardly wait!

Yes, that is a given of course. I figured those who care and are involved already know the terminology.

k, thanks again for all the info.

wow, that sounds great...any idea how much longer until we see that update release? ...and if I buy now...how "off" is the flight model in 11.41? Thanks again...in all my threads you've been so helpful and I appreciate that!

sounds good, really looking forward to this one as I refuse to buy another plane from [fill in the obvious company name here]. If you can, please pay special attention to the plane's xwind capabilities so it has enough rudder to keep nose straight down runway with strong direct xwind. I see alot of companies make the mistake of thinking that the maximum rated xwind component is really the maximum it can handle, and this is not true at all. It is actually the minimum the plane can handle. If a plane has a max rated xwind comp. of 13kts then that is actually the bare minimum it can handle with no special skill or training for the pilot. The plane maybe able to actually handle 20-25kt direct xwind but it would be tricky and require more skill. We went through this conversation a few weeks back with the vflyteaire cessna 150 which starts to run out of rudder after a direct xwind of 9-10kts....theres not enough rudder left in it to perform a 15+ xwind...meanwhile the real plane can easily handle a 20kts xwind and ive seen pilot claiming theyve done 25 many times. Real pilot tend to agree that a plane's MAX rated xwind component should really be considered it's MINIMUM. ...food for thought...and there are articles about this you can find..i can provide at least one if you need it. Thanks again...looking forward to getting a peak at the interior modeling too...very exciting!

That effect (rolling left) is usually due to either "engine cant" settings or rudder incidence settings or excessive prop wash depending upon engine speed and your current AoA. These settings can be used to intentionally add or subtract to/ from that effect...question is...is the excessive left roll based upon the true behavior of the real plane, and to the correct degree...or has it been overstated? Only a real pilot with lots of time in type could tell you this. That all said...in real life what the airplane owner will typically do is to "rig" the plane (via physical tabs) so that once flying level and at typical cruise speeds the plane will not require anymore right rudder and will not roll left. On some planes, if the owner does not do this then the plane may actually require some right rudder the entire flight (we're talking about single props). You too, can rig your Xplane with this tab settings and rudder incidence to lessen and even eliminate the need for right rudder in cruise. You need to adjust the correct settings in the .acf file. It's usually done using some positive rudder incidence along with a very tiny amount of some aileron tab. Small changes, test, repeat. Another question would be ... does the developer request or require that you need to use the EFM in Xplane to get correct results? if not then do NOT use it and your issue may go away on its own. After reading up on the real Sundowner a bit...it seems that it requires very little right rudder to stay coordinated and comes with an aileron-rudder interconnect system. I even read an article sort of poking fun at it by saying it's not teaching new pilots how to deal with adverse yaw (since it is supposed to be used as a trainer). Taking this into consideration it sounds like the effect may be over-done...or as I mentioned it could also just be the EFM you're using.

Hi guys...while I await your SR22 I have took notice of your M20 collection and was considering giving it a try but had some concerns regarding just how up to date it is and whether or not there needs to be new updates provided, currently. So I see the newest available version is v4 pb4 (or something similar as im recalling from memory here). Tha was released in Jan 6,2020...but then I saw mention in this forum on Jan.8th that perhaps a flight model fix was in the works. I also saw mention that some sort of 3d/texture overhaul was being worked on as of Dec.2019. Meanwhile in the Jan6th update notes I see no mention of flight model changes or 3d/texture changes so this is why Im asking before I buy. Are there any flight model changes needed as of this date (due to xplane's ever changing flight model)...or any other anomalies I should be aware of before buying? I tend to hesitate to purchase older aircraft shortly before xplane releases another big update (11.5) which will include the experimental flight model changes, as I have no idea if you plan on continued support and any necessary re-updating for this plane, or has it reached the end of it's support time-frame? Thanks

Very nice, how's the xwind flight model and ground handling coming along?...any change in plans for the release time-frame (it's already late Q1)? Thanks!

Thanks, Goran for the prompt reply...yes I should know better by now than to judge solely from YT videos. Just FYI I did some further testing this morning and as far as takeoff distance is concerned (which btw I was shocked at by reading in the performance section of manual!...I mean wow, only 875ft ground roll at ISA,100% torque, 5512lbs TOW) ...anyway she performed by the numbers for me as I began lifting off the ground in under 1,000ft...and clearing 50ft obstacle within 1,500 ft. Very accurate as you mentioned. As for the torque, I may try to experiment a bit with the engine cant and rudder incidence to see if I can get the torque effect a little more pronounced.

Hi! - have not even tried it yet to notice anything at all...but just asked because it seems like checking 30-60 times per second all flight long would be wasted cpu cycles regardless. Figured once per second should be fine but not so sure that Flywithlua even has such a timing. Thanks for the info, and for putting this together...was a nice idea!

@Ch.Cole Anyway of having the script check once per second instead of every frame?

I tried searching but didn't notice anything related to my own observation regarding what seems to be an excessive amount of acceleration at around a 90 torque setting during the takeoff roll (near sea level). This is with half fuel. I count 8-10 seconds from throttle application to 85kts indicated...it feels alot like accelerating in a jet. If I use only 60 on the torque then the time to 85kts seems more reasonable as compared to what I'm seeing on YT videos (which is typically 14-15 seconds until reaching 85kts). So I was curious...was this one of those balancing acts where if you make it accel slower on ground it effects the other speeds on altitude, and you're hands were sort of "tied"? In other words, is this something that can be tweaked, or is it one of those choices we just need to live with so that we don't compromise more important aspects of flight? Thanks for any insight into this. LOVE the plane by the way, just a fabulous work of art all around. Thank you ALL for working so hard on this and bringing it to the community! PS - bring back some more torque effects on takeoff roll, please! (or as an option for those of us who want it).

final update? you mean feature update or ALL updates? I mean what happens if Xplane makes patch changes that negatively effect the Saab?