Is the IXEG 733 too sensible in wind direction/speed changes ?

[cmbaviator]

Hi guys,

 

After an approach where the wind direction was changing like+-20° where it was nearly impossible to control the aircraft, I peprformed a test:

 

the first 2 approach were manual flown, Ap off approx 1000-1200 fts

3rd approach : auto land

4th approachsteady wind direction and speed, and the plane behaved much better :

 

 

it seems that the B737 is extremly sensible to wind direction and speed even if there are little, in the video above , wind direction changed +- 25° and speed about +-5 Kts which is not a big deal.

but as you can see i should have Go around each time except the last 2 ones.

If you compare with the last approach, you can assert that it's the wind speed/direction changes that makes the aircraft uncontrolable. it seems that the aircraft has no inertia, the wind direction goes from 220° to 245° and suddently the bank angle has increased of 20° lol.

 

maybe the real one perform like this but I don't know

[Morrigan]

Okay, so I was watching the rudder pedals and seems like there was no input on the rudder from you, until you were like 5 meters above the runway.  With wind going beyond 30kts it's is kind of neccessary to use it to line up with the centerline. 

Secondly, your speed. You approached the runway in high 130' to low 140' kts. As far as I am aware, with strong winds (which ~30kts wind is) you need go faster than usual and just bleed the speed right above the runway while lining up. 

Treat it with a grain of salt, I'm a dreadful sim pilot, and only a glider pilot in real life, so maybe someone more experienced can clear it up for you. 

*lights up the batsignal to summon Jan*

[cmbaviator]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan said:

Okay, so I was watching the rudder pedals and seems like there was no input on the rudder from you, until you were like 5 meters above the runway.  With wind going beyond 30kts it's is kind of neccessary to use it to line up with the centerline. 

Secondly, your speed. You approached the runway in high 130' to low 140' kts. As far as I am aware, with strong winds (which ~30kts wind is) you need go faster than usual and just bleed the speed right above the runway while lining up. 

Treat it with a grain of salt, I'm a dreadful sim pilot, and only a glider pilot in real life, so maybe someone more experienced can clear it up for you. 

*lights up the batsignal to summon Jan*

 

I use the crab technic, you only use your rudder to decrab during the flare. Besides, the Vref was 129kts, I set Vapp to 140 on the MCP, so that +6Kts for the wind (129+5kts (mandatory)+6kts. even if i added 2-3kts, more, i wouldn't think it would have changed something.

 

So my question is, is this behaviour correct ?

 

again the wind intensity is not the matter here, It seems that even small speed and direction changes make the b733 very uncontrollable

[K4bel123]

What weather engine do you use?

EDIT: Might it be FSGRW? I don´t use this weather engine because of its extremely sudden changes of the wind direction which makes flying completely unrealistic. Look at your wind direction indicator (or whatever it might be called ) on the lower display unit. It shows some really strong wind (not unrealistic) but the direction seems to change extremely rapidly. This could really make your aircraft be pushed around in the air.

Edited April 30, 2016 by K4bel123

[cmbaviator]

52 minutes ago, Morrigan said:

Okay, so I was watching the rudder pedals and seems like there was no input on the rudder from you, until you were like 5 meters above the runway.  With wind going beyond 30kts it's is kind of neccessary to use it to line up with the centerline. 

Secondly, your speed. You approached the runway in high 130' to low 140' kts. As far as I am aware, with strong winds (which ~30kts wind is) you need go faster than usual and just bleed the speed right above the runway while lining up. 

Treat it with a grain of salt, I'm a dreadful sim pilot, and only a glider pilot in real life, so maybe someone more experienced can clear it up for you. 

*lights up the batsignal to summon Jan*

 

I use the crab technic, you only use your rudder to decrab during the flare. Besides, the Vref was 129kts, I set Vapp to 140 on the MCP, so that +6Kts for the wind (129+5kts (mandatory)+6kts. even if i added 2-3kts, more, i wouldn't think it would have changed something.

 

So my question is, is this behaviour correct ?

 

again the wind intensity is not the matter here, It seems that even small speed and direction changes make the b733 very uncontrollable

 

on the contrary, it's realistic, the wind never stay steady ( direction and speed wise )

[Morten]

1 hour ago, cmbaviator said:

After an approach where the wind direction was changing like+-20° where it was nearly impossible to control the aircraft, I peprformed a test:

maybe the real one perform like this but I don't know

Hi CMB,

Rough ride there 

1. Make sure you have the yawdamper ON

2. What is unrealistic here is the wind setting.  Not the wind speed, and not the change in direction or speed, BUT the RATE they are changing at!

Long story, but lets say a metar for an airport says "wind direction between 030 and 080"  and windspeed "between 15-20 kts"  which offcourse is realistic.  What the metar however DOES NOT say is at which RATE/FREQUENCY it changes/fluctuates between those extremes!  And, there is really no way of knowing unless one has live wind.

I have a long topic about this at .org somewhere (few years ago) where i debate this.  I've been sailing ocean sailing all my life, and I have never ever seen anything remotely like the windshear in X-Plane.  In real there is no way in open landscape or high above ground a 20-30 kt wind will change +/- 30 deg within a couple sec or +/-10 kts.  In real maybe a couple of times pr MINUTE not every couple of sec.. .  So here the weather modell in XP is off.  On the ground behind buildings, trees or landscape whre most of you live on a daily basis - sure, but thats not where we are in an airplane or at sea.

Even sent Austin live streams of real wind indicators to prove it.

I'm lobbying the team to try to do something about the wind change RATE, but ATM we are to busy with updating.  Maybe someone else can pick up this issue either try to solve it with a plugin, or the hard way via Austin/Ben.

That being said, the 737 is probably the aircraft in XP of its size that can handle the most weather

M

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Morten

[cmbaviator]

2 minutes ago, Morten said:

Hi CMB,

Rough ride there 

1. Make sure you have the yawdamper ON

2. What is unrealistic here is the wind setting.  Not the wind speed, and not the change in direction or speed, BUT the RATE they are changing at!

Long story, but lets say a metar for an aircport says "wind direction between 030 and 080"  and windspeed "between 15-20 kts"  which offcourse is realistic.  What the metar however DOES NOT say is at which RATE/FREQUENCY it changes/fluctuates between those extremes!  And, there is really know way of knowing unless one has live wind.

I have a long topic about this at .org somewhere (few years ago) where i debate this.  I've been sailing ocean sailing all my life, and I have never ever seen anything remotely like the windshear in X-Plane.  In real there is no way in open landscape or high above ground a 20-30 kt wind will change +/- 30 deg within a couple sec or +/-10 kts.  In real maybe a couple of times pr MINUTE not every couple of sec.. .  So here the weather modell in XP is off.  On the ground behind buildings, trees or landscape whre most of you live on a daily basis - sure, but thats not where we are in an airplane or at sea.

Even sent Austin live streams of real wind indicators to prove it.

I'm lobbying the team to try to do something about the wind change RATE, but ATM we are to busy with updating.  Maybe someone else can pick up this issue either try to solve it with a plugin, or the hard way via Austin/Ben

M

 

Can't Xpuipc do that, On P3D with FSUIPC registered, you could tweak the change rate of the wind like 1° or 1kt per second

[Morten]

7 minutes ago, cmbaviator said:

Can't Xpuipc do that, On P3D with FSUIPC registered, you could tweak the change rate of the wind like 1° or 1kt per second

If so, that would be awesome!!!

M

[reflic]

In my opinion you're doing way too much aileron correction which would explain the roll.

Edited April 30, 2016 by reflic

[Morrigan]

34 minutes ago, Morten said:

2. What is unrealistic here is the wind setting.  Not the wind speed, and not the change in direction or speed, BUT the RATE they are changing at!

Is that common across all weather engines? I thought sources like FSGRW or NOAA (to certain degree) handle wind generation on their own and override stock's X-Plane shenanigans.

[K4bel123]

45 minutes ago, Morten said:

Hi CMB,

Rough ride there 

1. Make sure you have the yawdamper ON

2. What is unrealistic here is the wind setting.  Not the wind speed, and not the change in direction or speed, BUT the RATE they are changing at!

Long story, but lets say a metar for an airport says "wind direction between 030 and 080"  and windspeed "between 15-20 kts"  which offcourse is realistic.  What the metar however DOES NOT say is at which RATE/FREQUENCY it changes/fluctuates between those extremes!  And, there is really no way of knowing unless one has live wind.

I have a long topic about this at .org somewhere (few years ago) where i debate this.  I've been sailing ocean sailing all my life, and I have never ever seen anything remotely like the windshear in X-Plane.  In real there is no way in open landscape or high above ground a 20-30 kt wind will change +/- 30 deg within a couple sec or +/-10 kts.  In real maybe a couple of times pr MINUTE not every couple of sec.. .  So here the weather modell in XP is off.  On the ground behind buildings, trees or landscape whre most of you live on a daily basis - sure, but thats not where we are in an airplane or at sea.

Even sent Austin live streams of real wind indicators to prove it.

I'm lobbying the team to try to do something about the wind change RATE, but ATM we are to busy with updating.  Maybe someone else can pick up this issue either try to solve it with a plugin, or the hard way via Austin/Ben.

That being said, the 737 is probably the aircraft in XP of its size that can handle the most weather

M

 

That´s what I thought as well. And therefore I asked him if he uses FSGRW because IMHO FSGRW seems to have a way too rapid rate of wind direction change.

[cmbaviator]

12 minutes ago, reflic said:

In my opinion you're doing way too much aileron correction which would explain the roll.

 

I had too, all the sudden my bank angle increased about +- 20° lol ie huge aileron correction needed

[cmbaviator]

@ XPUIPC user, is there an option to tweak wind direction/speed rate ?

[mgeiss]

Not that I'm aware of. XPUIPC is far less featured than FSUIPC. It's main purpose is to mimic FSUIPCs offsets so that some addons like VA ACARS software, PlanG etc. can connect to the sim an get the values needed for them to work.

[ONDR4.cz]

Well, NOAA plugin advertizes "SuperSmoothness™: Interpolation between layers and smooth transitions between data updates" and it seems to be working really well.

[cmbaviator]

17 hours ago, ONDR4.cz said:

Well, NOAA plugin advertizes "SuperSmoothness™: Interpolation between layers and smooth transitions between data updates" and it seems to be working really well.

Does NOAA works for europe and indian ocean ?

[ONDR4.cz]

Certainly works very well for Europe, never tried Indian Ocean but very likely yes.

[cmbaviator]

19 hours ago, ONDR4.cz said:

Certainly works very well for Europe, never tried Indian Ocean but very likely yes.

 okay thanks