Silverlining/SkyMaxx Pro stops DreamEngine and other plugins to load

[ionfresko]

Hi,

I just figured this problem, i.e., that Silverlining/SkyMaxx v3.3.1 makes the DreamEngine plugin and some other plugins to not load (on for example AFL 172 SP, SSG 748, Colimatas F18); for a while I thought Gizmo was the culprit – and sent a message also in the Gizmo forum (http://forums.x-pilot.com/forums/topic/9045-gixmo-stops-dreamengine-and-other-plugins-to-load-not-sasl/…) – but just realized that it seems to be independent problems. They each, by themselves, makes the plugins to not load.

I cannot say when this problem started, as I have used a work around for a while (see the above post), which however got unworkable for a while. I only started systematic trouble shooting a few days ago, i.e., moving away all plugins and moving them back again one by one.

I can say, though, that I have never had any problems whatsoever with SkyMaxx, and have enjoyed it immensly since the very beginning. Hence my surprise to find out that also Silverlining all by itself refuses plugins to load. If there actually is an independent problem with SkyMaxx Pro - I don’t know if there is, after all, some kind of interdependency between Gizmo and Silverlining/SkyMaxx – it could not have emerged earlier than v3, as I recall this problem started at most two months ago.

Attached are my log.txt when loading the SSG 748 with only SilverLining in the resources/plugins folder, i.e., not Gizmo (only a few other plugins I know works, I started with them one by one). I also know that the problem is not restricted to SSG 748, as the problem is also evident in at least also the F18 Hornet and Airfoillabs 172. For more info on the problems, see again the post above I sent to the Gizmo forum.

Regards, Mikael (ionfresko)

LogSSG748 SilverliningSkyMaxxv311.txt

 

[sundog]

If DreamEngine isn't loading but SkyMaxx is running OK, I suggest you take this up with the developers of DreamEngine. We don't do anything that would directly interfere with other plugins. Only they would know conditions that would result in their startup function returning an error.

SkyMaxx Pro cannot operate without Gizmo, by the way.

This is the first we've heard of anything like this, so unfortunately it's likely something specific to your setup. Starting over with a fresh install wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[Ben Russell]

We're still not seeing any other problem reports anything like this from any of our other customers

The rules of statistics mean that this is a problem with your machine and your software configuration.

 

A real bug with our software will show up very quickly among hundreds or thousands of users installations.

This in turn becomes a very visible issue all over the forums with everyone who's not happy posting their problems.

 

If you can find anyone else reporting anything similar to this feel free to link those reports to this thread as additional evidence.

In the meantime I will continue to watch out for wide-spread bugs with our software. 

[ionfresko]

Thanks for quick response (both of you)!

 

However, I don’t really understand your reasoning (also concerning both of you). Do you mean its solely DreamEngine’s fault that something involving SkyMaxx/Gizmo stops it from loading?

 

First of all, I guess you didn’t red the post I linked to (or the log.txts). For it is not only about DreamEngine. It is also – at least, these are the planes I’ve been trying systematically with as of yet– the plugins for Airfoillabs 172SP, SSG 747-8, Colimatas F18 SuperHornet, X-Tridents Bell 412, and Dreamfoils Bell 407. All of their plugins works perfectly without SkyMaxx/Gizmo, and none of them works with them. In most of the cases, part from DreamEngine, it is SASL which doesn’t load together with SkyMaxx/Gizmo.

 

Strange is, though, that for some aircrafts there is a difference between the effect of SilverLining and Gizmo. Carenados 208B and B200, and the Aerobasks new Epic1000 Skyview, works perfectly with both Silverlining and Gizmo loaded, while non of them works with only Silverlining.

 

Secondly, I have difficulties to understand how SkyMaxx/Gizmo cannot be part of this story – as if its simply about a “problem with my machine.” If that would be the case, how come it is only SkyMaxx/Gizmo, in some sort of combination with other software on my rig, which creates the problem? That is, if removing them both from the resources/plugin folder, all of the crafts having problems work perfectly.

 

SkyMaxx/Gizmo may not “directly interfere with other plugins,” and the problem is perhaps “specific to my setup,”  but, fact is still: it is SkyMaxx/Gizmo, which for whatever reason, and in whatever software combination, creates the problem in this particular case.

 

And isn’t sorting such things out part of what software support is all about? There are endless combinations which can make for whatever problems, and that’s why people cooperate and trouble-shoot etc to see what can be done, if anything. It does not need to be a “real” problem with any software itself, but particular combinations in particular settings etc which make for problems. Do you mean that other developers should adjust to your software, and not vice versa? I mean, your software is also part of my “software configuration.”

 

Now, I understand that this is not a wide-spread problem. Most likely it is something specific to my setup (although it can hardly be unique, and – most importantly – this is the only problem I have with my rig currently, and which turned up just a short while ago, and with virtually no changes made to other software/hardware). I also understand that you need to prioritize wide-spread problems affecting lots of people.

 

But it still makes me sad to hear your reasoning, that you only care about “wide-spread bugs with your software,” and that I have to find other people having identical evidence as “additional evidence.” Evidence for what? Do you think I’m lying?! Why would I do that, after having successfully and with great delight used SkyMaxx/Gizmo since, long time ago, I first got my eyes on it?

 

Is support only the case when it can be assumed that there is a “real” bug, i.e., something you need to change? Isn’t it also – or indeed mostly – about helping your paying customers with things they need to change (settings etc) to make things work? I mean, you are the experts here.

 

I’m surprised about this, to say the least, and really sad that, as things appears now, I can no longer fly these aircrafts under the skies of SkyMaxx – and that you don’t seem to care a minute about it. I really can’t understand how, after having bought almost all of your add-ons and having zero problem and thus asked for zero minutes of your time, and thus giving nothing but praise (in forums, videos etc) - when asking for help, most likely concerning a small problem, you dismiss me like this. 

 

I may sort things out myself, or with the help from other people. Most likely it cannot be too hard to pin down as, again, my X-Planeing has worked flawlessly for years with almost the same software/hardware configuration as I have now.

 

You may not mind until there is a thousand of us reporting the same problem, but I may nevertheless report back for the case of others.

 

Mikael (ionfresko)

[Cameron]

10 minutes ago, ionfresko said:

it is SASL which doesn’t load together with SkyMaxx/Gizmo.

Which actually sounds as though you have some old versions of SASL causing conflict.

11 minutes ago, ionfresko said:

works perfectly with both Silverlining and Gizmo loaded, while non of them works with only Silverlining.

I guess you didn't read @sundog's reply above.

[Ben Russell]

If you would like to test using a default demo copy of X-Plane we can probably make some progress.

The log provided above is jam packed with custom scenery and who knows what else.

 

I'm happy to provide you with the trouble shooting steps required to break it down into smaller chunks... I don't expect to find a problem with our products though.

So; to begin; re-test with a default demo copy of the sim. This is standard advice that you will receive from any payware author.

Removing all your custom scenery will massively reduce the memory load, the VRAM load and the plugin system loads as well.

You have OVER 1500 items in your custom scenery folder.

There are probably over a hundred copies/variants of the ground plugin running.

 

I'm happy to work with you on this but you have a lot more work to do to convince me that you've genuinely isolated a problem.

A problem that absolutely nobody else is reporting.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that you're seeing a problem. You wouldn't waste your own time reporting it.

 

Default demo; minimal plugins; minimal products to reduce the number of possible interacting components to an absolute minimum.

Then we can make some progress.

 

(Updating SASL(and everything else) is an easy place to start.)

[sundog]

Maybe another way to explain this is that it's possible to just have one too many add-ons. If you have a plugin conflict that's corrupted memory somewhere, *any* new plugin has the potential to cause a crash if it needs to access that corrupt memory. But the crash isn't the fault of that plugin. That's what your report seems like is happening. Similarly, if you're on the verge of running out of memory - one more plugin, *any* plugin, can push you over the edge and lead to a crash. But that's not a problem with the plugin that pushed you over the edge - the problem is that you were on the edge to begin with.

So fundamentally, you have a bad plugin somewhere, or a plugin conflict, or maybe you're running out of memory. But because SkyMaxx Pro was the "straw that broke the camel's back" doesn't mean it is the root cause. Ben's point is that our massive install base means that if there were a defect of this magnitude in SkyMaxx Pro, we likely would have heard about it a long time ago. To isolate the root cause, you need to follow Ben's advice above. Let us know what you find and we'll continue to assist.

 

[ionfresko]

Thanks alot for your help guys!

The result is, well, expected, that is, no problems whatsoever involving SkyMaxx/Gizmo specifically. When going clean (i.e., reinstall etc), your creations do not seem to cause any conflict. I have a remaining problem with Airfoillabs C172, but which most likely isn't involving SkyMazz/Gizmo. First of all other planes (plugins) works perfectly - and that means many more planes than those I had problems with earlier - and, secondly, while the symtoms are the same for the AFL172, the plugins do in fact load (i.e, its DreamEngine and SASL plugins), and it makes no difference with or without SkyMaxx/Gizmo. 

I do think, however, that there is some kind of general plugin conflictuality (as Sundog may have been suggesting), due to simply having many complex payware planes involving more and more plugins. For even in a rather minimal install including all my payware planes (15-20 or so), and just a few of my favourite sceneries, and almost no general plugins, there have been various problems with various aircrafts which however seems to sort themselves out in a couple of restarts. I don't think the problem is primarily about memory or computer power in a more general sense - I have 4770 @4,2, GTX 770 4GB, 16GB RAM, SSD 512 etc - but about, well, complexity. X-Plane as a platform is growing, and so are, maybe, the problems and rooms for possible conflicts.

Anyhow, things work for me now, I'm happy, thanks and so, most importantly, up in the air again!

Mikael