AIRAC File

[kpregira]

Foreflight tracks my flight and has many many planning and inflight tools

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sronayne96]

Why do you subscribe to the charts when you can do Skyvector.com for free

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Skyvector only provides charts for the US. Same with Foreflight. 

[kpregira]

oh ok Well I live in the US

[yukonpete]

 

Hey Pete!,

 

Just curious...where do you live?

Also, how much is a tank of gas where you live?

 

Not entirely relevant, just trying to understand your perspective.

Is that like buying two GPS units for your car? or needing 2 tanks of gas for the 1 destination that only requires 1 tank? Not entirely relevant, just trying to understand your perspective. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by yukonpete

[Cameron]

Is that like buying two GPS units for your car? or needing 2 tanks of gas for the 1 destination that only requires 1 tank? Not entirely relevant, just trying to understand your perspective.

No, it's like buying diesel instead of ethanol.

But you failed to answer the question?

[yukonpete]

No, it's like buying diesel instead of ethanol. But you failed to answer the question?

So you think its reasonable to buy two products that do exactly the same thing and support the same products except this one product. Every other developer supports both for updating Navdata. Obviously you care a great deal about customers! ( yeah right ) One would think you would want a solution that works for everyone. Is that unreasonable? I guess it.

[Cameron]

So you think its reasonable to buy two products that do exactly the same thing and support the same products except this one product. Every other developer supports both for updating Navdata. Obviously you care a great deal about customers! ( yeah right ) One would think you would want a solution that works for everyone. Is that unreasonable? I guess it.

Did I say any of what you just said I did? No, I didn't, and if I have it my way we'll have both. You should probably stop putting words in my mouth.

I asked you two questions to understand your position. You STILL haven't answered.

As for your talk of something doing the same as the other I recommend you read the rest of this thread again.

Nevermind the fact navigraph seems to have a problem supporting the very developers who want to support THEM by not replying to emails.

But back to my questions...where do you live and how much is a tank of gas there? I want to understand your perception of $40 better. Here in the states I can't even fill up my tank for that (or just barely depending on the day).

[yukonpete]

Well when you try and turn it into an apple v orange argument it says a lot! Where I live and the price of gas ( apples and oranges ) is irrelevant.

[Litjan]

We will try to also make Navigraph data compatible with the IXEG 737, just like Cameron said. If we can´t get this into version 1.0 you have two options:

 

a.) Fly the 737 with the enclosed database and get an extra paper route to get Aerosoft nav-data when you feel the original database is too outdated for you.

b.) Don´t fly the 737 at all.

 

No one likes to spend money again for something they feel they have already bought. But I - for example - have one and the same movie on VHS, DVD and now blue-ray. Same exact show on every single one. Hmm. Why? Because I can´t watch the VHS tape on my current hardware, which I think is superior to my old tape player. See the analogy?

 

Have a fantastic day,

 

Jan

[Cameron]

Well when you try and turn it into an apple v orange argument it says a lot! Where I live and the price of gas ( apples and oranges ) is irrelevant.

 

It doesn't seem to be saying much at all, unfortunately (or maybe your silence on the answering of the question signifies it does say something ).

 

But, all in all I'll put it another way...

 

For $0.77 per WEEK in your currency ($0.54 for Americans) for an entire year, that's some cheap entertainment value. Go to a nice dinner and you've already spent more. Fill up your gas tank and you've spent more. Take your significant other to the movies twice a year and you've spent the same with no popcorn purchase. You're acting like a small boat trying to make big waves right now. It's not really worth the stress, Pete.

 

Best of all, you can (as you have so awesomely pointed out) utilize Aerosoft data on all of your other add-ons! At that point it'll be up to you to decide to keep one, both, or none of these subscription services.

 

In the end, you will either buy the 737 or you won't, and you'll use it as it was designed and agreed to be used should you choose to purchase it. If 77 cents per week (which is not even mandatory, by the way) is your breaking point to say "I'm sticking my foot in cement and not taking it out" then I respect that and wish you all the best going forward.

 

We're focused on getting this product out. Navigraph's lack of reply is not going to stop us. Sorry.

[kpregira]

We are talking about pennies here.  This is one of my favorite hobbies.  It's how I relax and unwind, so that's worth a lot to me so If IXEG's 737 uses Aerosoft then I'll buy both.  By the way, Aerosoft's update interface really sucks compared to Navigraph but I can live with it.  Anyway, it's not going to break the bank and I'de rather NOT have any problems with the most anticipated aircraft in X-Plane's history.  Yes IXEG and X-Aviation I am chomping at the bit and ready to go.

[NAVData]

Hi gentlemen,

I´m not sure, from where the strong wind against us (Navigraph) is coming from and I don´t know Mr. Cameron but here a few words from our side (Navigraph):

 

I have nothing found in my personal mailbox about IXEG or X-Aviation. We are currently looking in the official Navigraph mailbox (https://www.navigraph.com/ContactInformation.aspx), if we have overseen something (which can be happened - for sure, we are humans too). Further, I haven´t found anything here in my mailbox of the forum. We can´t have our eyes everywhere to look for, which developer wants to use which format for which platform. Yesterday, a Navigraph customer had wrote us a PM in our forum and pointed us to this addon (thank you very much for that) - so the communication is possible, if wanted.

 

This posting isn´t very objective and therefore here a list of our (Navigraph) addons, which we can provide & where we have the fully support from the developer:

• Aerosoft Airbus A318/A319/A320/A321
• Aerosoft Airbus X Extended v1.10 (and below)
• Aerosoft Airbus X Extended v1.15 (and above)
• aeroSystem 737 Avionics
• AirSimmer
• AirSimTech / AST
• AirTrack*
• AivlaSoft EFB
• Aviograsf A340
• Blackbox Simulation (all products)
• Captain Sim 757/767/777
• Carenado (all products)
• CPS - Concorde Performance System
• Dispatch Planner X
• Dreamfleet & Eurowings Prof
• EADT KLN 90B
• Eaglesoft
• EFASS - Electronic Flight Assistant
• Feelthere Embraer Regional Jets v2/Embraer E-Jets v2
• Flight1 ATR72
• Flight1 Aviation Technologies G1000 Student
• Flight1 Aviation Technologies G1000 Student Pro
• Flight1 BN2 Islander
• Flight1 Cheyenne/Fokker/Mustang/Super 80 Professional/C182T/King Air B200
• Flightsim Commander 9.5.1 (and above)
• FlightSim Solutions
• FS Instructor
• FS Instructor Panel 200X
• FSBuild 2.x
• FSiPanel
• FS-Navigator 4.x
• FSTramp
• FsXPand - Flyware
• Global Air Traffic Control
• iFLY 737NG 3.2 (and above)
• iFLY 747-400 2.0 (and above)
• iFMS
• Integrated Simavionics (ISG)
• JARDesign A320neo
• JARDesign A330
• Jeehell A320 FMGS
• Jet45 FMS - FlightDeckSoft
• JRollon Planes CRJ200
• JustFlight DC-8 Jetliner
• LevelD 767
• Majestic Dash8-Q400
• MilViz
• OnlineSim.org SFC YARC
• OpusFSI
• PFPX Professional Flight Planner X
• PMDG (all products)
• Pointsoft Pro ATC X
• Project Magenta Airbus/Boeing/RJ-Type Glass Cockpit, GA IFR Panel
• Project Magenta Airbus/Boeing-Type FMC
• Project Magenta General Aviation Glass Cockpit
• Project Magenta Instructor Station
• Project Magenta QuickMap/Moving Map
• Prosim 737
• PSS Airbus/Boeing/Dash
• QualityWings (all addons)Sim-Avionics - Flightdeck Avionics
• SimBrief
• Simcheck A300B4
• SimLauncherX
• SSG Boeing 748i FMC
• TOPCAT
• TuneVNAV Descent Pro3
• Universal FMC (UFMC)
• vasFMC Flight Management
• Wilco A320 PIC for FS2002
• Wilco CRJ Next Generation
• Wilco/Feelthere 737/777, Legacy, Airbus Series
• Wilco/Feelthere CRJ
• World Traffic 2.0 (and above)
• x737FMC
• X-FMC 2.5 (and above)
• X-Plane 10.30 (and above)
• X-Plane GNS430, 777 Worldliner (Ext/Prof), Flightfactor B757 Professional, VMAX B767, X-Crafts Embraer E-175

 

Ok, now back to the "issues" - again, I don´t know which format IXEG exactly use but it must me an existing one (because you have compared Aerosoft with Navigraph). Someone wrote here, that it exists a syntax difference between Aerosoft and Navigraph. For sure, because Navigraph uses Jeppesen as source and Aerosoft Lido. Jeppesen is a standard database - Lido codes the lines my yourself - but and that´s important to know: The result should be the same and several addons show this - look at the GNS430, look at the 777 Worldliner and there are several other addons (not only in the X-Plane world) - this addons can handle both provider without any issues. All procedures are there - no procedures are missing from the FMS as the poster here mentioned. So, it´s possible to make the addons compatible with both addons ...

 

As I wrote, the coding is different yes but the result should be the same - just as an example: EDDF SID ANEK1D

Jeppesen coding:

SID,ANEK1D,07C,4CA,0,68.0,2,800,0,0,0,0,0,0DF,DF152,50.070553,8.708008,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1DF,DF150,50.010247,8.751739,2, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,1,220,0,0,0SID,ANEK1D,07R,4CA,0,68.0,2,800,0,0,0,0,0,0DF,DF152,50.070553,8.708008,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1DF,DF150,50.010247,8.751739,2, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,1,220,0,0,0SID,ANEK1D,ALL,5IF,DF150,50.010247,8.751739, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,1,220,0,0,0TF,DF157,49.791100,8.672295,0, ,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0TF,ANEKI,49.317272,8.480428,0, ,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

Here the LIDO coding:

SID,ANEK1D,07C,4FA,RW07C,50.03261667,8.53463056,0,FFM,251.2,4.1,68,2,800,0,0,0,0,0,0DF,DF152,50.07055278,8.70800833,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1DF,DF150,50.01024722,8.75173889,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,1,220,0,0,0TF,DF157,49.79110000,8.67229444,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0.00,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0TF,ANEKI,49.31727222,8.48042778,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0.00,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0SID,ANEK1D,07R,4FA,RW07R,50.02754167,8.53417500,0,FFM,247.4,4.3,68,2,800,0,0,0,0,0,0DF,DF152,50.07055278,8.70800833,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1DF,DF150,50.01024722,8.75173889,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,1,220,0,0,0TF,DF157,49.79110000,8.67229444,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0.00,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0TF,ANEKI,49.31727222,8.48042778,0, ,0.0,0.0,0,0.00,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

You see one and the same procedure, two different codings. Now whats the different between Jeppesen and Lido:

• Lido declare the SID as Runway "only" transitions (that´s the letter "4" in the SID line).
• Jeppesen split the SID into a runway transition (4) and a common part (5)

This is a major difference between both provider. EDDF is only a simple example, but there are more complex example, where you have a runway-transition, common-part and enroute-transition. The result should be the same, because when I select ANEK1D for 07C, the FMS should merge the runway-transition with the common-part (+ when existing and selected the enroute part).

 

Next difference is the FA and CA terminal path in the first lines

• Lido coded this as fix to an altitude (means from the RWxxx to altitude)
• Jeppesen coded this as course to an altitude (means from the current position to an altitude)

The result, should be the same - or not? Again, I have looked for a very simple example, there are a lot of procedures, which are more complex like this one.

 

All in all, I don´t see any reason, why an addon can´t handle different sources, when the FMS is developed clean and correct, according the specifications. A really good example is the "standard" GNS430 dataset, which will be used on all platforms. The GNS430 dataset is in real the Fokker/Cheyenne dataset and this dataset exists since many years. Currently, we have no reports about any issues with this dataset, so it would be helpful (if issues exist), to report this issues, that we can fix it.

 

Thank you very much - again, we are ready for all, when something is wrong, let us know please. We will try to contact you outside this forum, to see how we can help and how we can provide you ... but please stop the foreclosure, there is no reason to do this.

Edited January 5, 2016 by NAVData

[Morten]

Thank you Richard,

 

FYI, here is the ticket confirmation we received from you, that might help you track it down

 

 

From: Navigraph Licensing <license@navigraph.com>

To: nils@XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: Reminder: License Application for IXEG 737CL (TicketId: #265100042)

 

This message is to confirm that your email has been received at license@navigraph.com.

 

Your ticket ID is: #265100042

 

To add more information to your submission, you may reply to this email with additional information as long as you keep the ticket ID in the subject. It is important that every exchange of emails between you and Navigraph carry this ticket ID in the subject line or else you risk to prolong the application process.

 

Please note that at times we receive a lot of requests to license@navigraph.com. However, if you have received this delivery confirmation you can rest assure that we will process your application in due time. There is no need to send a second email. While you wait, please read over the application routines again and see if there is any additional information/documentation you can provide us with to speed up the process: http://forum.navigraph.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=35

 

Kind regards

 

Navigraph Licensing

[Cameron]

Thank you very much - again, we are ready for all, when something is wrong, let us know please. We will try to contact you outside this forum, to see how we can help and how we can provide you ... but please stop the foreclosure, there is no reason to do this.

Hi there,

Please contact me over PM if you're truly willing to discuss.

This issue of non-response from your side sadly goes back all the way to 2010 for me when the CRJ first came out and it took forever to get responses. We finally got such a response after plenty of panic and non responded to emails back then towards the end of the project. Sadly, the same has happened with this project not only for me, but IXEG attempting to contact you. It's highly frustrating to say the least.

This will be a good stopping place for this topic for people to have context. No more debate. The chips will fall where they may depending on your cooperation from this point forward, so I'm locking this topic.