Leading Edge Simulations Saab 340A Experience

[arb65912]

Gentlemen,

 

As some of you know I have recently became a very active user of LES Saab 340A.

 

I started a very detailed and long thread on this great bird in the Va I am a member.

 

Since many Saab guys are not members there, I thought it would be a good idea to share my experiences here in X-Aviation forums, the actual "home" of the Saab.

 

After my initial bad experience and the "war" with few X-Aviation Leaders, I finally realised that the problems I was experiencing were also a part of my X-Plane setup.

 

I was a bit ( or more  ) reluctant and kind of stubborn thinking that having a decent system with a powerful GPU is automatically put the blame for my failures with Saab on the LES Team.

 

I was wrong and apologized in public ( the cause was not totally on my side for these who read the related forums).

 

Finally taking Ben's advice, I reinstalled X-Plane from scratch eliminating all unnecessary plugins and "garbage" accumulated through couple of years old XP installation and trying different plugins, add-ons etc.

 

I only copied the extensive Custom Scenery which as you all know brings the joy to XP and is pretty much a necessary plausible factor.

 

Reinstalling XP followed by reinstalling LES Saab 340A worked ( thank you Ben ) to the extend I am able to fly SAAB on a mid range routes and as long as I stay in cockpit view, I am getting acceptable frame rates around 20-27 FPS.

 

If I fly a bit longer I am unable to switch to external view since the frame rate drops to a single digits.

 

I am convinced that the coming update will fix that so I can move on and share my great experiences with LES Saab 340A here.

 

Cameron and all LES Developers, I hope you will not object me posting here and sharing the fun with others.

 

IF you do not want me to do that , just let me know and I will discontinue.

 

In the next replies I will embed few videos with a short explanations.

 

Enjoy!   Cheers, AJ 

[arb65912]

I started my experience with LES Saab 340A by inspecting the 3D model which is an excellent creation with a great attention to details.

There was a thread in support forums about having more screen area available for the windshield which I agreed with after looking at the real videos of Saab 340A cockpit BUT the way it is, works perfectly fine with me.

The trick is to assign a keys or joystick switches to be able to see certain parts of the cockpit instantly, like in real life.

I have assigned 10 keys on numeric part of the keyboard for that purpose and it works great, no need for 3D model edits.

 

One of the amazing animations in LES Saab 340A is the door opening, I admire the amount of work that had to go into that task.  

 

The video title say " SAAB 340A Excessive Door Action Volume " because I was told that bt one of the responders but it was my fault, I reduced the volume of the few sounds to be able to crank up ATC volume on VATSIM and did not increase the volume of corresponding door opening sounds.

 

Edited January 9, 2014 by arb65912

[arb65912]

Next thing I recorded was a very quick and dirty Startup Procedure. Keep in mind, I just wanted to get LES Saab 340A started successfully and I succeeded.   

 

You will have to bear with my Polish English talk, as many of you know, English is my second language so, please be patient or just turn the volume down.  

 

[arb65912]

Then after a long discussion with real Flight Officer on Saab 340B and following his advices, I started practicing proper Take Off Procedures.

 

Being concerned about CTOT settings, flaps, Power Lever and Condition Lever.... I simply forgot the gear retraction, belly landed. See video. 

 

[arb65912]

After a long talk with the local shop guys and thank to my Instructor putting the word in, I was able to repair all damages. 

Finally the bottom of the fuselage was repainted red and I was ready for more practice and shooting the acceptable video.

 

Edited January 9, 2014 by arb65912

[arb65912]

After 10 better or worse attempts ( including the landing described above), I decided to make a video good enough to submit it for discussion.

I made few obvious mistakes I comment on in the video but I think I achieved something resembling roughly my Instructor's Take Off Procedure.

All the times, I had a hard time to achieve the smooth transition after engaging autopilot but it must be my initial trim settings and wrong timing.

It is not easy in simulator to get to 400' AGL at the proper speed , climb rate and AOA watching the engine gauges at the same time ....  

 

[arb65912]

Then, I was responding to the guys complaining about SAAB not having FMC.

 

I downloaded and installed X-FMC   http://www.x-fmc.com/

 

At the time of the video shooting, I was not sure yet but after few more tries I can confirm that LES Saab 340A works fine with X-FMC , for those who want to fly longer FMC guided flights.

 

[arb65912]

Next task I was given by my Instructor was to see how I can manage both generators failure.

 

Although the response was not exactly what would happen in real life, it was close enough to keep me all nervous until the successful landing at my local airport KWWD. 

 

[arb65912]

My next challenge is described below.

 

- Fly NDB RWY 26  APP Procedure with

- The right engine shutdown but  the autopilot is functional.

- Set the ceiling at 1600' with 6km visibility

- Wind 090/10.

- Circle and land on rwy 08. Left hand circuit. Cat C speeds

 

I am planning on testing it this weekend.

 

Keep your fingers crossed.

 

Will keep you posted.

 

Thank you LES Team for so much fun with SAAB.   

 

 

[Goran_M]

Glad to see you enjoying it after a somewhat rocky start.

 

[canox]

Glad you started this thread.  Hope you can post any tips or knowledge you learn from talking with real SAAB crew.

The depth of simulation makes this plane worth learning correctly.

 

Ive just started trying proper departure and approach procedures on my flights too, the SAAB is a great plane to do it with.  You will be busy which makes it fun! Especially with no FMC gotta be quick on the radials. (i dont mess with XFMC)

I find the autopilot in this plane is excellent.. I dunno it just always does what I want, smoothly.  Everything is smooth.

 

I did a four hour flight or something from Denver to San Fran in the 340A all with VOR. Cant believe I made it with no problems but it was good.  Took a few power naps on the longer legs.. soothed to sleep by the cabin-muted whirring of turboprops.

 

 

In a real world flight.. would the passengers be loaded up and doors shut before starting the engines?

[Ben Russell]

 

In a real world flight.. would the passengers be loaded up and doors shut before starting the engines?

 

Yes.

 

And if you do an intermediate stop for more PAX exchange you'll be stuck in the back of the cabin with only the PAX door for air con... they get very hot, very quickly.

[Goran_M]

BTW, that door animation was a nightmare.  I spent weeks working on that.  And I still couldn't get it without Jim and Cameron's help.  There are so many parts in just the stairs...not to mention everything else...and the timing on everything had to be pretty much exact.  Definitely 1 of the hardest things to animate in this aircraft.

[arb65912]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

I was very nicely surprised to find out your responses, makes me feel that it is worthy to share here.

 

@Goran: yes, it WAS a rocky start but let's forget it, I DO enjoy SAAB now to the max, I am really determined to learn all the tricks you guys built into it, excellent job! Thank you. 

 

@Canox: I WILL post tips I get from real life SAAB pilots but we have to remember that LES Saab 340A is NOT a multi million dollar simulator and we can not expect to have ALL just like in real life.

 

There will be places where we simply have to follow what is available as far as simulation and I believe that what we do have , is more than enough to enjoy the simulation to the max.

 

I am sure that Goran, Jim mostly as well as other members of LES Team will confirm that.

SAAB functions are not only modeled but also linked together and also linked with the X-Plane aircraft failures and behavior.

It is all neatly programmed into a one package and making one thing happen, causes another one.

It must be really hard to achieve what LES Team achieved here so at the times when we see something not 100% like in real life, we need to keep in mind what I said above.

 

I agree with you on FMC, many guys go for the big iron , long haul flights but for me they are simply boring.

 

I also like shorter hops with proper Departure and STARS and the best of it, Approaches based on available instruments WITHOUT FMC.

 

Busy makes it fun, definitely, I feel the same way.

 

4 hour flight with VOR navigation, wow, that was something, I can hear you, you felt proud that you could do it that way instead of punching few buttons for the route, weren't you. 

 

The sound of SAAB engines, I simply love it, do not to forget to lower the Condition Lever about 1000' AGL, that is what I was told by real life F/O on real life SAAB.

 

I will post the tips from the rl pilots about flying SAAB here, probably this weekend, I need to dig them out from the VA  thread where I started the discussion on that but I already made a note so stay tuned.

 

Enjoy this great aircraft and post your comments also so we can all learn.

 

@Ben: please , I did not understand what you were explaining about  

 you'll be stuck in the back of the cabin with only the PAX door for air con... they get very hot, very quickly.

 

English is my second language ( maybe it was a part of the rocky start Goran mentioned  ) and many times I just do not get it, please explain a bit more and thank you for a tip from the past.

 

@Goran; the door animation, damn, do you use 3D MAX or Blender or maybe even gmax?  No gmax is a total PITA, I vote for 3D MAX

Well, I had a very LITTLE experience with mentioned above because I was modeling for radio controlled flight simulator and I know what it takes to move these vertices and make even a simple simulation.

This animation was a real jewel, congratulations, you are good.

 

I have a question to all who can answer it, please read below.

 

As you know , my next challenge will be:

 

- Fly NDB RWY 26  APP Procedure with

- The right engine shutdown but  the autopilot is functional.

- Set the ceiling at 1600' with 6km visibility

- Wind 090/10.

- Circle and land on rwy 08. Left hand circuit. Cat C speeds

 

I started preparation for that.  I found a great article about flying around Melbourne.  http://casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/melbourne.pdf

Since I will be setting the weather, I will not login to VATSIM but I thought it would be nice to read a bit on what if I wanted to do it on VATSIM with the ATC coverage.

 

I also found a great article on Circle To land Procedures, a bit hard at the times to read but gives you an excellent idea about the subject.   http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1430.PDF

 

My question is , I want to shut down the right engine, I will simply move Condition Lever to cut the fuel off.

Where should I keep the PL ( Power Lever) and what actions should I perform on the overhead panel as well as the pedestal?

 

Additional question, if I wanted to restart that failed engine in flight, what do I do and were do I fin a reference in Saab documentation on that?

 

Everybody have a great weekend and stay tuned.   Cheers, AJ 

[hobofat]

BTW, that door animation was a nightmare.  I spent weeks working on that.

 

The attention to detail was definitely not wasted time! Hands down the best $60 I've put into a flight sim.

[arb65912]

+1 Hobofat, the best investment as far as this aircraft class.

 

I will repeat my question, maybe someone will help me.

 

My question is , I want to shut down the right engine, I will simply move Condition Lever to cut the fuel off.

Where should I keep the PL ( Power Lever) and what actions should I perform on the overhead panel as well as the pedestal?

 

Additional question, if I wanted to restart that failed engine in flight, what do I do and where do I find a reference in Saab documentation on that?

 

 

While I was preparing for my NDB RWY 26 Approach challenge, I wanted to put the sticker in the cockpit as a reminder to remove all Ground Equipment before taxi, for some reason I keep forgetting about it, so here goes the sticker. 

 

After I put the sticker in the cockpit, I started playing with GIMP and could not resist to create custom LES Saab 340A  livery.

 

It amazes me what such a image editing dummy like me could accomplish so fast.  

 

NOW I see why there are many people making liveries , it is just so much fun.

 

Finally pulled myself from playing with GIMP and getting started for the flights.

 

Stay tuned, Cheers, AJ 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2014 by arb65912

[arb65912]

Someone asked me to share Saab 340A real life pilots tips.

 

Here is it for Take off:

 

…..........Before T/O   …............

BLEED VALVES – OFF

CONTROLS – CHECK

CTOT – ON

LDNG LGHT – ON

T/O INH – ON         ET – ON

Throttle advance    ( Watch AUTOCOARSEN, CTOT, PROP)

Calls:   80 KNTS … V1... ROTATE...POS CLIMB...GEAR UP

400' AGL    AUTOPILOT ON … IAS SET

1000' AGL  CTOT – OFF...  COND LEVER – Lower... PROP SYNC – ON

BLEED VALVES – RESET/AUTO

TAXI LIGHTS - OFF

 

Another tip I was told, on landing almost never use 35 deg flaps.

 

Another comment regarding the flaps, rarely is a flap 35 landing conducted, flap 20 is all we do in the Saab. The amount of drag created by flap 35 dramatically reduces our go around performance as we can't retract immediately to flap 7, we have to climb with flap 20 until vref +10 by that point you're at 400' looking to retract flaps entirely, but you can't do that until the flap 0 speed, by then you've covered a bit more distance and not climbed as high as we could have. 

 

It was company policy a long time ago, for each pilots 5th landing to be a flap 35, but we so seldom use them these days. The unofficial rule of thumb, is that if you land flap 35, expect to NEED to take off flap 15, really only for really short rwys in the realm of 1000m

 

 

 

Cheers, AJ 

[canox]

Ive been flying Zurich to Lugano. Its a very steep approach and I needed 35 flaps heh.. even then I can barely make it.  Cool approach though, you cant see the runway because of a mountain and you need to dive in from 7nm away @ 5000 feet.. just over the hilltop.  

 

On the approach checklist it says HP Valves set.  How should I set them?

[arb65912]

Hi Canox,

 

What approach are you flying from Zurich to Lugano?  I want to try it in my next challenge.

 

Answering your question about HP Valves, this is what the sources say:

 

1. Normal Expanded Checklist SAAB 340 A

 

DESCENT & APPROACH section     BOOT DE-ICE & HP VALVES OFF/CLOSED PNF ( Pilot Not Flying)

 

2. As per real First Officer on SAAB , HP Valves should be closed.

 

I just finished my challenge and I will post here soon.

 

I had a blast but I was very nervous also , especially at the end.

 

Cheers, AJ 

[canox]

You have a video of your 'challenge'?

 

Oops I must have missed that in the documents, thanks!  

 

Ive been using the STAR from ODINA and then the LOC HOTEL Rwy 01 approach.. I found the charts on this site. 

https://charts.aero/airport/LSZA

Good luck its a neat landing!  I managed to figure out the mini-gps in the SAAB so I was using that along with HDG mode for the arrival.

 

You could also try leaving from Buochs (just south of Zurich).. another airport surrounded by mountains so your departure can be fun too.  

 

PS. whats the best way to record videos like yours? Maybe I could show my attempts

Edited January 12, 2014 by canox

[arb65912]

Yes, the videos are getting processed. I will post asa they are ready.

 

Wow, just looked at the Lugano LOC HOTEL Rwy 01 approach, great, will definitely try it out, tonight or tomorrow and will share my experiences here.

 

Thank you for the great challenge approach.

 

As far as video making, very simple, I bought Fraps Professional , I think it was some $25 maybe, not a big deal ( free version works as well but gives you a watermark while recording).

 

Very straightforward and simple, assign a button and hit it while in simulator. Later on you can go further and add additional items if you want but you will need some video editing software, I have a old AVS Video Editor , purchased lifetime upgrade  license for ALL their products for $50 few years ago.

 

You should definitely give Fraps a try , maybe the free version for starters, I would love to watch your flights.

 

Cheers, AJ   

[arb65912]

Well.... I DID IT!       I enjoyed to to the maximum.

 

I have made two videos, both videos were recorded LIVE, I did not know the outcome but all ended up nice despite some rough hand flying while CTL ( Circling To Land).

You can see the proof of live recording, you can see the cars on the ground moving which will not be shown in X-Plane reply.

 

Just FYI:  NDB RWY 26 at YMEN with Circle To Land on RWY 8, Custom X-Plane weather: Overcast 1900, Winds 90 at 10

 

First video, I was using ADF set to NDB ( Magenta Arrow) , NAV1 VOR set to no frequency and  OBS set to RWY 8 heading to help me with flying the circuit.

 

NAV2 VOR Set to nearest VOR to give me DME and an idea when I should expect ADF needle to start moving.

 

 

 

Second video is where I had a rough time, I thought I will crash.

After Autopilot disengaging things were quite rough but as you see all ended up nice.

 

Enjoy!    Cheers, AJ 

 

[canox]

Clutch landing. Looks like it flies not bad with just one engine. Nice flying you really seem to know what youre doing lol

[arb65912]

I have never heard that, clutch landing, I like it. 

 

Getting ready for Lugano now, keep your fingers crossed.

 

IF I knew what I was doing, you would not be laughing at me... BUT, I am trying and having fun doing it.    Cheers, AJ 

[arb65912]

Just checked Lugano, I do not fly much in Europe .... wow, love it, did not get to land straight in but Will practice, lots of fun and a beautiful scenery. Cheers, AJ