Thoughts on 3PD's from the FS world turning to X-Plane.

[jonrd463]

With the release of the HD mesh and SkyMAXXX, X-Plane has become even more photogenic than before, and more and more non-X-Plane types are starting to take notice. I'm seeing this over in Avsim, but there's something about this newfound interest that bothers me. Now, those of us who have been using X-Plane for a long time through many versions, along with those of us who have come to embrace X-Plane since version 10 (I fit in this slot) are very familiar with the quality developers for the platform. We know of LES and JRollon. We fly Flight Factor Boeings. We're getting our glass cockpit mileage with JARDesigns' Airbus. We're salivating at the chance to get yoke time in the IXEG 737 Classic. Simply put, we know that we've got some quality players in our arena, and they're only going to get better the more they develop.

 

So what's bothering me is a common comment among the MSFS-entrenched that "X-Plane looks like it has potential, but they need PMDG quality aircraft before it'll take off."

 

What.

 

Don't get me wrong, PMDG make quality products and I'm happy to see them make a move towards X-Plane development, but for the rabble to completely ignore, discount, and discard the efforts of developers who have already shown they're up to the task seems almost like a slap in the face. Hell, we've got people putting out amazing work with teams a fraction of the size of MSFS addon developers. In fact, Fly J Sim is ONE PERSON, and the 727 is heralded as a triumph by those who own and fly her, including a major MSFS product reviewer, Froogle.

 

I dunno... I'm glad X-Plane is getting attention, and I'm glad people are taking notice. What I'm leery about is this idea that X-Plane somehow needs to be "fixed" before it's considered "worthy" by the high and mighty Flight Sim Elite.

 

What do you guys think?

Edited December 3, 2013 by jonrd463

[Peter T.]

Yeah, a couple of MSFSers stated that X-Plane needs to be matured before its ready for development...Which is ridiculous.

 

P3DV2 came out, and almost all the developers and MSFSers turned their heads around to it...In my opinion..basically P3D is an upgrade of FSX with X-Plane features and 3d ocean waves i find this very dumb as everyone is exited and immediately went to P3DV2...calling it the FUTURE of flight simulation.

 

As well, I can't get around thinking why is 32 Bit software the future of flight simulation... and the fact that X-Plane has almost all the graphic features like P3Dv2 last year and little to no MSFS bats an eye.

[Goran_M]

They have a reputation.  Simple as that.  

[Ben Russell]

http://www.martinlindstrom.com/religious-branding/

[MSFS Ralf]

I have a long customer history with PMDG. Their first product was a B747-400 manual for the B747-400 PS1 sim. If you ever wondered where the name comes from. Next in line were some Boeings for FLY!, 757, 767, 777. They had a strictly MSFS-never attitude. After FLY! vanished the went the MSFS ways.

I think they are smart. The products are good but they sell very good because they produce what the virtual pilots are after. It's more easy to sell planes that "we have flown on" in real life. Who ever did an airplane vaccation, PMDG has the vitual counterpart. I guess that is what makes them so famous.

Currently we have planes in our X-World with the same quality, or even better. And many of them sell because of pure quality, not because they are famous in the real world. Two planes I fly ae good examples, the Jetstream and the MU-2, never flew on them or even walked close to them. I think it's important to know that PMDG does not want to serve the X Plane community. They want to sell products and they will always be where the money is.

Same about their groupies. They don't care about the sim, they want PMDG.

Like many others I'm an FSX convert. I had their 737NGX installed. It's a nice plane but nothing special.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk 2

[jonrd463]

I think it's important to know that PMDG does not want to serve the X Plane community. They want to sell products and they will always be where the money is.

 

Serving a community and making money isn't mutually exclusive when one is talking about a for-profit business. The money is made by providing a product or service that people are willing to pay for. PMDG are more than capable of doing that, and like I said, I welcome their entry into X-Plane development.

 

 

Same about their groupies. They don't care about the sim, they want PMDG.

 

That's the part that bugs me. This expectation that everything must have the same polish and deep systems detail as a PMDG aircraft only serves to close those folks off to other products that are every bit as enjoyable. I mean, it's great that you can simulate fuse 245 blowing due to the boss's wife having a bad day last Tuesday, but how many people really use that level of detail in day to day simming? It wouldn't surprise me if the vast majority of people claiming some kind of value in a robust failure model operated with failures turned off most of the time.

 

I can't wait for the IXEG 737 to be released. It's looking every bit the study sim-- if not moreso-- than PMDG's best products, but you'll never see that acknowledgement from any of their fanbase.

[meshboy]

I like PMDG and welcome them, but today they are not the topdog. The ngx looks like a joke compared to the ixeg 737.

Some of the stuff pmdg is lacking is becaus of the bad fsx platform,but even still IXEG has taken it to the "new" level. I dont care about pmdg brining people over, when ixeg comes the people will follow because its the best offer. Simple as that.

But knowing PMDG, i am curious what they might bring in acouple of years to the x-plane world.

Edited December 4, 2013 by meshboy

[tkyler]

What folks like about PMDG is two-fold.  1.)  They simulate what folks want....deep simulation.  2.)  They deliver!   Number 2 here cannot be overstated and as mentioned earlier, they have a reputation for delivering.  When PMDG develops a simulation, you know what you're getting.   In the x-plane world, that kind of repeatability of uber-detail has not yet been demonstrated IMO.

 

With IXEG, we are trying for not only uber-detail, but the "next level" also.  That is, we look at PMDG..what they offer and we say, 'we have to offer that"...but we also look at what they do not offer and we try and offer that too to push boundaries.

 

Now until we actually deliver though....we can't be trusted and therefore do not have the credibility that PMDG has.  Individually we all have credibility, but not as a team yet.

 

XP devs MUST provide not only top quality over FSX counterparts....but repeatable quality.  If developers do that for x-plane, then the migration of FSX users to products by 'native' XP devs will be seen IMO...though it will take time.

 

X-Plane is a superior platform for customization as evidenced by what we're squeezing into our 737 vs. what FSX can not even simulate at all.....but until this is demonstrated repeatedly, FSX folks will not believe it. We have to be so convincing in our simulations that the evidence is irrefutable.  PMDG should be a goal to strive for.  They have a great reputation for delivering and I, for one, aspire to that.

 

All we can do is keep producing top-quality work and let the market go where it may.

 

TomK

Edited December 4, 2013 by tkyler

[LA]

Tom K. ...........A good, sensible reply.

[jonrd463]

I hope my original post didn't come across as a slam against PMDG. On the contrary, they have shown to be not only capable in delivering high quality products, they're also conducting themselves with the utmost integrity regarding the proper approach to licensing products for use with P3D. My biggest issue is with people who demand the same high end fidelity out of the relatively newer X-Plane developers, and who completely disregard the efforts that already exist. Sure, there's nothing on the market right now that matches their 777, for example, but the stuff that IS available is still worth a look.

 

Maybe I'm taking it too hard on behalf of the X-Plane developers. I just have to imagine that anyone dismissing something like the Flight Factor 757, for example,  as not worth the time simply because every single switch and function isn't modeled has to be demoralizing to the developers-- both Flight Factor themselves and anyone else who would like to get into addon development.

 

Edited to add-- Just to clarify, I have every reason to believe that XP developers, both present and future, will mature in their craft to levels equal and greater to PMDG. But just like PMDG had to mature their own skills to get where they are to day, so do our folks, and that doesn't mean that the stuff that's being released right now is garbage. That's kind of the attitude I'm seeing in a lot of posts criticizing XP 3PD. The reality of it, in my opinion (ill-informed as it may be), is that there's plenty of so-called garbage on the MSFS/P3D side of things as well that people are charging money for, but you don't see the entire platform and addon development industry for it getting poo-pooed as inferior.

Edited December 5, 2013 by jonrd463