IXEG 737 Classic for X-Plane 12 Announcement

[manguras]

Hi IXEG Team.

Can you bring back this amazing and realistic effect,  when braking the plane the shock absorbers behaviour?

 

[Henri_65]

Has the updating of this plane ceased? There are no new liveries, no product update info... Nothing. 

Edited May 22, 2024 by Henri_65
Unfinished sentence.

[Litjan]

No.

[CptLee]

Any update on the 717?

[roxmate]

I wanted to share my disappointment regarding IXEG and X-Aviation’s approach to upgrading the IXEG 737 for X-Plane 12. I originally bought the aircraft back in 2016 at full price. Due to personal reasons, I had to step away from flight simulation for a while. Now that I'm finally returning, I’ve discovered that the upgrade discount code was only valid for a limited window, which I missed, and I’m now expected to pay the full purchase price all over again.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. I understand developers need to be compensated for their work, and I wouldn’t mind paying a reasonable upgrade fee of around $15 for the new features. However, completely denying previous customers a discount simply because they missed a deadline feels unfair and downright greedy. The product I bought isn’t even compatible anymore with the current version of X-Plane, so essentially my previous purchase is useless in its present state, for the current version of X-plane.

The disclaimer that says, “After this time the discount code will be disabled and you will be required to pay the full purchase price should you desire to upgrade. No exceptions!” is extremely disappointing. It disregards the loyal customers who supported the product from the start. Many of us purchased the IXEG 737 at or near its release to help the developers grow, but it feels like we’re now being penalized for not continuing to fly or keep track of every announcement in the meantime.

I hope IXEG and X-Aviation will reconsider their stance and offer a fair upgrade path for long-time owners. It’s important to treat your existing customers with the respect they deserve, rather than forcing them to purchase the same product again at full cost. I believed in IXEG when the aircraft first launched, and it’s disappointing to see this is how me and others in similar situations are being treated in return.

[Cameron]

@roxmate

We appreciate your feedback and understand your frustration. We've all been there as humans. However, I'd like to cover a few key points about upgrade pricing, time-limited offers, and how this practice aligns with industry standards across many different sectors. It's not unique to IXEG, and the cost of these add-ons are not life changing for the value they provide over the life of the item. Heck, you're only just now looking at an upgrade 9 years after your original purchase! I think it's pretty important people treat developers as people trying to live life and consider this expertise as a job, rather than an entitled hobby.

Promotional pricing and limited-time discounts are standard business practices. Airlines frequently offer discounted fares for a limited period, but once the sale ends, passengers must pay full price. Should I be upset about this as a loyal customer who flies on my preferred airline and has status with them? The person next to me could very well have paid hundreds less. Similarly, hotels, subscription services, and even retailers like Amazon offer promotional pricing for a set period. If you miss the window, the deal is gone. This includes items you may purchase over and over. Likewise, when tech companies release new versions of software, they often provide early bird pricing or upgrade discounts for a limited time. Once the deadline passes, the standard pricing applies. Microsoft, Adobe, and many others are included in that.

When you purchased the IXEG 737 in 2016, you received years of value from it in X-Plane 10 and X-Plane 11. The fact that it is no longer compatible with X-Plane 12 is due to platform evolution, not an arbitrary decision on IXEG's. When you buy a game or software, it doesn’t come with a lifetime guarantee of compatibility with all future versions of the operating system or platform.

For example:

• A PlayStation 4 game does not automatically entitle you to a PlayStation 5 version for free.
• Some X-Plane developers have not even bothered to offer any discount at all. We did.
• X-Plane itself has required users to buy new versions (X-Plane 11 → X-Plane 12) rather than getting free updates forever.

Loyalty discounts are meant to reward early adopters and returning customers within a set timeframe. Extending it indefinitely would defeat the purpose of having a promotion at all. Companies regularly run promotions with a defined expiration date. Steam and other game platforms frequently offer limited-time discounts, but customers who miss them must pay full price.

We clearly communicated the timeframe of the loyalty discount in multiple places, multiple times, and gave ample opportunity for previous customers to take advantage of it. Nobody is forced to purchase the upgraded version. If you choose to continue flying in X-Plane 12 and want the IXEG 737, the upgrade is available at full price (or you can wait for a sale during holidays). While it may not appear all that different to some, the work involved to get the Classic Plus to market and at a proper baseline to what we had in X-Plane 11 was extensive development work, not just a minor patch. Just as X-Plane 12 itself required a new purchase, the IXEG 737 for XP12 reflects long months of work, visual improvements, and compatibility updates.

While we do value all our customers, we also value and respect our own time. Our approach to upgrade pricing was carefully considered to balance fairness for both our loyal customers and our development team, who put significant work into this new version. While we understand that not everyone will agree with this approach, it's also not out of line in the grand scheme of things.

We appreciate your understanding, and we hope you continue to enjoy flight simulation, whether with the IXEG 737 or other aircraft in your collection.

[roxmate]

Developers often assert that moving to a new simulation platform (like X-Plane 12) requires “extensive development work.” While I acknowledge that some work is definitely involved,adjusting flight models, cockpit systems, textures, etc. updating an existing product to keep pace with a new version of X-Plane doesn’t necessarily equate to rebuilding it from scratch.

For instance, many applications originally designed for Windows 7 were updated to run on Windows 8, 10, and 11 without charging their users a whole new purchase each time.

Flight sim developers absolutely deserve to be compensated for their work, but there’s a distinction between a major overhaul (introducing significantly new features or re-engineering the product) versus adapting it for compatibility with an evolving platform.

It’s been mentioned that I bought the IXEG 737 in 2016, nearly nine years ago, and that I “already got my money’s worth.” While that might be true from a usage perspective, there are many examples of long-lived software where continued compatibility updates were not locked behind a repurchase, again, games on steam from as far back as 2013 or earlier continue to receive patches for modern Windows releases, often at no additional cost. Some even upgrade to 64-bit or new rendering APIs to stay current.

Or many well-known developers in the flight sim community have offered discounted or even free updates for new sim versions, especially if the product’s core features remained the same. Simply put, nine years of “value” doesn’t always translate into a second full-price purchase, especially if all that’s fundamentally changed is the host simulator’s version and some other added features.

Your response draws parallels for instance to airline seat sales or holiday promotions implying it’s standard business practice to miss a sale and then pay full price. But there’s a key difference, airfare and hotel bookings are single-use, short-term services, whereas flight sim add-ons are part of an ongoing ecosystem that customers expect to keep using, updating, and enjoying for years. When you buy an aircraft add-on, you’re investing in a product that you hope will remain functional or be reasonably updated in line with sim developments.

It’s perfectly normal for developers to offer a permanent “upgrade pricing” tier to returning customers, no deadline attached. Time-limited offers are more akin to a promotional tactic than a standard in long-term software support.

Saying, “Nobody is forced to purchase the upgrade” ignores the practical reality that the previously owned add-on doesn’t work in X-Plane 12. Effectively, if the user wants to continue flying the same aircraft in the new sim they’ve already purchased, they have little choice but to buy it again,minus a missed, short-term discount.

Then again, while I understand the rationale behind charging for updates and the general notion of limited-time deals, it isn’t universally a “standard business practice” in every corner of software development, particularly for products that rely on a tight-knit, long-term community like flight simulation.

Ultimately, consumer perception of fairness matters. For many of us, the issue isn’t paying for the work that’s been done; it’s the idea of paying full price again—simply because we missed a short discount period—for what is essentially the same aircraft, updated for compatibility. Such a rigid policy can damage the goodwill between developers and their core audience, who often rely on each other for ongoing growth and innovation in the sim community.

I hope the IXEG team will consider a more balanced upgrade path that acknowledges existing customers without imposing hard deadlines that force them to repurchase a product they’ve already invested in.

[Cameron]

32 minutes ago, roxmate said:

Developers often assert that moving to a new simulation platform (like X-Plane 12) requires “extensive development work.” While I acknowledge that some work is definitely involved,adjusting flight models, cockpit systems, textures, etc. updating an existing product to keep pace with a new version of X-Plane doesn’t necessarily equate to rebuilding it from scratch.

I'm sorry, but you're not really in a position to say something like this. It's a very broad assumption as to what's involved.

32 minutes ago, roxmate said:

For instance, many applications originally designed for Windows 7 were updated to run on Windows 8, 10, and 11 without charging their users a whole new purchase each time.

We would not have charged (just like we didn't from 10 to 11) if the work didn't require so many man hours to begin with.

32 minutes ago, roxmate said:

there are many examples of long-lived software where continued compatibility updates were not locked behind a repurchase, again, games on steam from as far back as 2013 or earlier continue to receive patches for modern Windows releases, often at no additional cost. Some even upgrade to 64-bit or new rendering APIs to stay current.

The purchase still works...just not for X-Plane 12. If a company is patching older software, they're doing it at the benefit to them. Either because the patch is simple, or they are still riding a revenue stream on that product which justifies it. This is not the case for the previous IXEG version, and your ChatGPT/AI chose a poor example here (64 bit? Come on haha).

32 minutes ago, roxmate said:

I hope the IXEG team will consider a more balanced upgrade path that acknowledges existing customers without imposing hard deadlines that force them to repurchase a product they’ve already invested in.

We will not be considering a new approach. The discount offer expired well over a year ago, and the explanation as to why this has been done has been given. You don't have to agree with these reasons, but the reasons stand none-the-less.

The next time you want to use AI/ChatGPT to write your forum posts, you should probably take a bit more time and thought into what it's spitting out for you.

[roxmate]

Well, Cameron the ability you have for being so astute to know whether or not a reply has been made using AI tools is fascinating! But it's great to see that the the tone and attitude shown are just reflects of the kind of support X-aviation provides their customers.... Ah btw, regardless of whether my reply was written entirely by me or chatgpt it doesn’t negate the points raised and concerns about the upgrade policy.

[Cameron]

3 hours ago, roxmate said:

But it's great to see that the the tone and attitude shown are just reflects of the kind of support X-aviation provides their customers....

I think it’s important to be honest and open in our discussions. It seems like you were looking for a way to start the conversation, and I responded in a measured way with detailed reasoning to help you try and see our side the first time around. It's pretty evident given your subsequent replies (or instructed GPT prompts ) you weren't going to be nice about this in the end.

3 hours ago, roxmate said:

Ah btw, regardless of whether my reply was written entirely by me or chatgpt it doesn’t negate the points raised and concerns about the upgrade policy.

Thank you for owning up to the use of AI. It showed pretty badly there. At least your last reply brought your true 'you' out!

We can ultimately agree that we won't agree on this subject at large. For us, it's a business decision. There's nothing more to it than that, and it's okay if you disagree with it. We do respect that.

Again, we hope you continue to enjoy flight simulation, whether with the IXEG 737 or other aircraft in your collection. Hopefully one day it can be the latter.

[Litjan]

Lol, we are not far away from the glorious future where chatbots will fight with each other...I will just have to teach ChatGPT to read these forum threads for me...now what am I going to do with all of that free time?
(I certainly won´t have to spend it on developing the 737 anymore, because ChatGPT will find an excuse for me not doing it ).