Edit: Satisfied with my purchase! - Errors/Bugs documented inside?

[Nova]

I always thought, that X-Aviation stands for a really high standards, but with the CRJ i really doubt if they can reach the bar they have set for themselfs.

60$ for a plane, which installer has at least 2 very obvious bugs (Lufthansa paint missing, British Airways livery not being installed/moved to the livery folder),

it also lags in visual and audio effects.

Have you EVER shut down the engines, while not being in cockpit view? ???

When the engines shut down, you can hear how hard the break between the different sound files is, that are used for different rpm. :'(

A visual bug occurs, when you have "lo cirrus clouds" or "lo strato" above you, then your engines and the cockpit emergency exit are way darker than

the body of the aircraft.

When being in flight, you can see the terrain through the fmc. The textures of the left row where the "-" should be is gone. Thus you notice some flickering there when your in the cockpit.

The textures of the windshield are as low as those used in the Dash8. Or look at the left display where the art. horizon is. Small black squares everywhere. And when you use the wiper, you get a perfect clean windshield, that gets dirty right after you turn them off...

But what bugs me most, if the maybe worst A/P i have ever had. This plane is not able to get a single turn right. It's even way worse than with the Dash8 from Jack. Its not overshooting once, no it makes at least 3 turns to align. And if you use a direct, then things get even worse. The starting point will be now the current position, thus you already overshot. So the plane turns right to intercept the path drawn in the fmc. But then it doesn't turn left in time, overshooting for the seconds time. If you are lucky, then it will be aligned by the third turn, but can also happen with the fourth...

All the "when is it ready" has either had an big impact on the quality assurance team, or testing wasn't done properly.

As in it's current state, this plane is only worth 40$, imho.

And now let's the smiting begin.

[Japo32]

I sorry but I don't agree. Of course you have your point of view, that I respect but also respect those that say this plane worth the money that cost our even more.

Sorry, you didn't like it but as said before I cannot make everybody glad. I try but it is impossible

[Japo32]

About how it turns.... Try to reduce speed. It will catch better

[Nova]

So the overall message is "i don't care about the mentioned bugs". Wow, that's hell of a cool attitude!  

And for the turns: So i should reduce my cruise speed to 230 indicated, so that the A/P can catch it better, and then accelerate again?

Yeah, really sounds like a pretty bright idea. Guess that's what the real pilots do too....

Edit:

Here is another question: How do the thrust reversers work?

The deploy automatic on touchdown, but it's hard to get them off again. I assigned the standard reverse toggle to my joystick, and it works in every other aircraft without any problems. I know, the manual says that it has to be in idle position, but it's more or less a random thing it it really disengages them or not. The only time i am mostly able to disengage them is when i'm standing. But why should that be the case? What if i brake too much, then i have to stop on the runway to get the reversers off...

Is there a trick? Anything i might have missed in the manual?  ???

[Japo32]

Well it is always good to reduce speed when you entering corners. Like cars you have a centripetal force, and we had to reduce the "start of turn" point distance, because there were necessary to not have more important bugs.

About graphical... The only bug is the one with rays on fms seeing retrain, and the darker textures on some conditions, But not the wippers. It uses a trick on xplane, so perfection is not possible to have there.

Of course others will be fixed, but I still believe it is not enought to reduce 20$.

Anyway, I would also see something possitive the plane has. I believe it has to have something. Look I put so much effort on this plane, that I could not share your comments. Of course you are right on somethings needs to be made better, but I don't understand your frustration. But I respect it. Even of I usually don't fly aircrafts from outside.... But thanks notifying me

[Nova]

Guess my frustration come from the hype. I expected something perfect, or at least something near perfection.

Here are some things i like:  

- The exterior

- FMC (not the turn issue, but it does its job with SIDs and co very well)

- Near perfect 3D cockpit

- Beacon reflection an plane (why did you slow the animation down? was looking nicer in an earlier video)

- Logo light texture

- Exterior textures as a whole

- It flies very nice, like a big airliner

I use the circle view a lot when taxing or when i'm in climb/cruise. Just so see the plane and the effects and to enjoy the view.

Not everything is bad, but well, still a bit disappointed. At least the first impression.

Until the A/P gets fixed, i will use the HDG first to get the plane into the right heading, and then hit LNAV again. This way it works good,

but that shouldn't be necessary imho. The x738 has no issues with this, and its free.

Dumping it down to 40 might be a bit hard, but 50 would fit right. This might still not be what it is worth to you, but that's completely understandable since you put so much effort into it.

[Japo32]

Please follow my recommendation... Take more care on speed. This plane don't have autothrust, and what you showed me was a clear example of overspeed. Tells you one that made phisics... Controlling thrust more carefully you will havre more fun than the x737. It is a different way of flying it. For me more fun. the price is god one.

I thought a lot before deciding it.

Cheers.

[TOBS]

Guess my frustration come from the hype. I expected something perfect, or at least something near perfection.

Here are some things i like:  

- The exterior

- FMC (not the turn issue, but it does its job with SIDs and co very well)

- Near perfect 3D cockpit

- Beacon reflection an plane (why did you slow the animation down? was looking nicer in an earlier video)

- Logo light texture

- Exterior textures as a whole

- It flies very nice, like a big airliner

I use the circle view a lot when taxing or when i'm in climb/cruise. Just so see the plane and the effects and to enjoy the view.

Not everything is bad, but well, still a bit disappointed. At least the first impression.

Until the A/P gets fixed, i will use the HDG first to get the plane into the right heading, and then hit LNAV again. This way it works good,

but that shouldn't be necessary imho. The x738 has no issues with this, and its free.

xx I think this is not a very big deal. I am sure Javier will align the AP with the next patch.

Regards Tom xx

Dumping it down to 40 might be a bit hard, but 50 would fit right. This might still not be what it is worth to you, but that's completely understandable since you put so much effort into it.

[Nova]

After the first online flight on VATSIM and a very rough weather at Hamburg (EDDH) - i bet, at least half of the passengers had to vomit - i noticed another small issue.

When i switch the frequency between the 1st and 2nd, then the previous active will be change by 2 or more digits. So for example if i had tuned 127.67 as prime, 123.12 as stby (first one is the ATIS at EDDH, the other the arrival), it changes the former primary to 127.69. That means, that before i can switch back to the controller, i will first have to correct the frequency. This happened nearly 90% of the time. Since most of the time you will not switch back, it's not that a big deal, but if you have, it's annoying.

Could you please have a look into that?

Anyone else having this issue?

Does the CRJ only have 1 Nav and Com port? I couldn't find out how to get the ATIS by using the second com. Even when i switch to VHF2, the display stays at COM1 and it only changes this one.

[philipp]

Okay, could we please deal with one issue at a time:

1. autopilot overshoots waypoints - now I need a specific flightplan to measure this issue. Please give me

-your flightplan

-weather conditions

-load/fuel conditions

and the exact waypoint where excessive overshooting occurs, along with speed and altitude at this time.

To confirm a bug, I need data.

2. poor loop sync of the outside engine shutdown sound. That's something Javier will have a look at

3. Terrain shines through FMS?? I don't get it. Sorry, even at your screenshot, I don't see any terrain at the area you marked red.  There is a small isue with the FMS popup background graphic in the Mac version, I can confirm that now. But in 3d (non-popup) I don't see such... Sorry, if there really is an error, we need a better screenshot.

4. Can't engage thrust reversers with button - take a look at this thread, please: http://forums.x-pilot.com/index.php?topic=2102.0

5. NAV and COM 1/2 - RTFM. There are two ways you can access them:

- via the NAVRAD page on the CDU (easiest way to tune frequencies)

- or as a backup solution, look at the radio panel, there is a button labelled 1/2.

6. Roundup error when tuning through the radio console - confirmed. This is a bug. It does not occur on the FMS page though.

Philipp

[Nova]

Ok, i have now made a very short example flight with the following data:

Weather conditions: No Winds or turbulences, everything set to 0ktn, 25NM visibility, weather download off, all layers set to clear (no clouds), temperature 20°, with an QNH of 1013.

Load and fuel is standard (when loaded cold and dark).

Route: EDDH AMLUH M852 ULSEN EDDV

Departure Runway 33 at EDDH with AMLUH7G SID.

Arrival ILS27R at EDDV with ULSEN4P STAR.

While overshooting the SID is not such a huge problem (climbing at 3500fpm @ 250ktn) it gets one when reaching ULSEN that turns right to OBATU, which then makes a right turn to CEL VOR.

I have made 22 screenshots, that show various situations, but i will only post 3 of them. One, showing speeds etc, the other the route from above.

1) Route visible

2) Right before the first turn

3) Flight path

The bigger the angle is, the more it overshoots.

@3) The terrain is visible at multiple buttons, when zoomed in. The switches are not circles, but more like octagons. And in between the space of the switch and the space of the octagon, you can see through. Not that a big deal, but just wanted to report that.

I hope this data helps to find the problem, or that you can at least see if it occurs to you too.

[woweezowee]

well, I'd also say you push the plane too much to its limits. The more you get to the redlining warning for speeds, the more the plane tries to keep stable (try straight and level and give power: it's going to climb pretty soon, very early before the red lines, not when you are at them or crossed them). I only did the tutorial flight now, but did not experience unusual AP behaviour. I've seen worse in other planes (that I don't remember, because that's some time ago).

[dpny]

well, I'd also say you push the plane too much to its limits. The more you get to the redlining warning for speeds, the more the plane tries to keep stable (try straight and level and give power: it's going to climb pretty soon, very early before the red lines, not when you are at them or crossed them). I only did the tutorial flight now, but did not experience unusual AP behaviour. I've seen worse in other planes (that I don't remember, because that's some time ago).

I'm going to second this: you're at 330 kias at FL110: that's way too fast for a small commuter jet which cruises at ~ Mach .76, and you may be exceeding Vne. You should never see 330 kias in a plane this size. The 737 and A320, which are significantly larger, climb at 270 kias after FL100. The A330, much larger and more powerful, climbs at between 280 and 290 kias after Fl100.

Without looking at the POH, try climbing at ~270-280 kias after  FL100. That should get you to about Mach .75/.76 by cruise altitude.

[Nova]

I still had about 20-30 ktn until the overspeed protection would have engaged.

As long as i'm not running into it, the plane should be able to behave normal.

I would even go as far as to say that he has to turn perfect, even while being in "overspeed climb", because this is not different to a normal climb, except for security.

I know that the overspeed protection comes in way sooner as the speed tape shows.

[philipp]

While overshooting the SID is not such a huge problem (climbing at 3500fpm @ 250ktn) it gets one when reaching ULSEN that turns right to OBATU, which then makes a right turn to CEL VOR.

The bigger the angle is, the more it overshoots.

Thanks for the effort. But 330 at FL110 is clearly to fast. DPNY is right on this.

However, you are right that the turn anticipation of the FMS should be longer at higher speeds. This is an FMS issue, not an A/P issue.

I added this to my list of confirmed bugs.  

@3) The terrain is visible at multiple buttons, when zoomed in.

I discussed with Javier, and he found the culprit. Added to the list of confirmed bugs.

Thanks for your collaboration.

Philipp

[dpny]

I still had about 20-30 ktn until the overspeed protection would have engaged.

As long as i'm not running into it, the plane should be able to behave normal.

I would even go as far as to say that he has to turn perfect, even while being in "overspeed climb", because this is not different to a normal climb, except for security.

You're still flying much too fast. As I said, you should never see 330 kias in a plane this size.

So long as you intend to fly faster than you would IRL, the AP will let you down.

[Nova]

And how do i know, what cruise speed is right, when the plane itself allows me to get that fast?

The Pilot handbook has no information regarding that.

[Japo32]

Nova.. it is ok.. if you fly under limitations.. but you have to agree that when you turn at high speeds the plane will try to go out the corner, as a car.

right now as Philipp said, this is something inside fms.. that we can change depending on speed.. but still has to be done, so until then it is good when reaching a good angle of turn you just reduce speed.

below 10,000 feet you have limitation of 250 knots.. and you are 1,000 feet above that. Of course you could try.. but at that altitude I would be or

a) climbing, so the good speed to climb would be 230 knots

descending, so you should be already at 250 knots minimum to cross the transition level.

even if you set the 1/2 bank angle.. you should go shofter... We will try to make a variable start of turn point.. but that will be done for 1.1 version.. and still we are far from that one maybe.

[dpny]

And how do i know, what cruise speed is right, when the plane itself allows me to get that fast?

Experience.

But you should read the charts for the SIDs and STARs you're flying. Looking at the chart for that SID I see that you should stay at 5,000 feet until you get to AMLUH, when you can begin to climb to either your cruise level, or the level the ATC tells you to when flying online. So, not only are you too fast, it looks like you're to high.

For a general rule of thumb, climbing at a steady 250 kias will get you to about Mach .76 by about FL35000. Extrapolate from that.

[Nova]

I know that i am too high. This was only to show what the A/P is doing on route. The slower you are, the more precise it is.

I now made a complete new install of 9.69, only with the CRJ.

Same route and settings, but FL330 with M.72. I had another scale on the route map, but you can see, that it's pretty much the same.

Green = fresh install with missing ground textures

Gray overlay = previous screenshot

@Japo and/or others

I don't want to let the plane look bad, by repeating things. I just want to make sure, that it's not my fault, and/or give you data to work with. If the reason is too much speed, then it should be gone by now. The only thing i didn't try, was 1/2 bank. I will try that tomorrow.

[flyinhawaiian]

I still had about 20-30 ktn until the overspeed protection would have engaged.

As long as i'm not running into it, the plane should be able to behave normal.

I would even go as far as to say that he has to turn perfect, even while being in "overspeed climb", because this is not different to a normal climb, except for security.

I know that the overspeed protection comes in way sooner as the speed tape shows.

There's a big difference between what an airplane CAN do and what an airplane SHOULD do.  Sure, the aircraft I'm flying now CAN do a roll, but they SHOULD NOT do one.  If you fly the plane like a professional pilot (keeping speeds realistic, comfortable rates of climb/descent) the plane should behave normally.  I'm currently on autopilot, flying my delivery flight, and I've yet to see the issues you're coming up with...

[Splash]

If I may add to this post ...

The goal of the aircraft should be to perform as close to the real one as possible. I think what Nova was trying to say is that real aircraft would handle this differently regardless of crazy pilot input and control.

Based on software operation the software should preform to its outlined requirements regardless of user mistakes (ex: user accomplishes a use case out of sequence or enters data incorrectly, etc.) - that is quite common actually.

Applying this rule holds true for software that controls an airliner, there's logic to handle various circumstances and alert pilots to mistakes. The point is, the simulated system should respond as close as to the real aircraft systems and behaviour. I am not a CRJ pilot so it would be nice to know what happens if you come in hot into a turn.

Therefore, please report the problems to Japo and Phil and I am sure they will kindly resolve these problems if they are truly bugs. I am sure they want their aircraft to be great and they will fix any problems that have been discovered.

[Splash]

Oh, one more thing:

Thanks for the great aircraft Japo and Phil and anyone who supported you guys. The fact that you guys accomplished something like this is truly amazing.

[Cameron]

If I may add to this post ...

The goal of the aircraft should be to perform as close to the real one as possible. I think what Nova was trying to say is that real aircraft would handle this differently regardless of crazy pilot input and control.

As has already been mentioned, the reason Nova is seeing the reaction from the aircraft that he sees is because of the stated reasons, and would be seen in real life as well.

From what I gather, Nova was attributing the issue to product error, when in reality it is "pilot" error.

[Splash]

If I may add to this post ...

The goal of the aircraft should be to perform as close to the real one as possible. I think what Nova was trying to say is that real aircraft would handle this differently regardless of crazy pilot input and control.

As has already been mentioned, the reason Nova is seeing the reaction from the aircraft that he sees is because of the stated reasons, and would be seen in real life as well.

From what I gather, Nova was attributing the issue to product error, when in reality it is "pilot" error.

Fair enough, so I take it the aircraft behaves correctly in that very situation.