Prop wash

[brettnicholls]

Hi I have XPlane running in Experimental mode. According to the new info Prop Wash has been implemented to give a better effect. Taking off with the rudder set in the middle, yes I know it’s supposed to be to the Green mark, but I’m not seeing any pull to the left. According to Austin I should be hard on the rudder trying to keep it on the centre line. Any thought guys.

[Goran_M]

I can talk to Saso about this, but IIRC, in an earlier version of the TBM, we had it pull to the left, and quite a few people weren't happy with that.  So the flight model was adjusted to have some pull, but not as much as it used to.  

[Aleksandar]

Hi Goran.  Yes, I got back into the TBM after a long time, and find it quite disappointing that this "realistic" plane had to be tamed for some people at the cost of realism.  It would be good to have perhaps an alternate option for this?  What I am experiencing is that now instead of more rudder input at rotation, it's aileron.  Shouldn't be so strong as it is...the green mark on the rudder trim is there for a reason Brate!

Please, consider bringing it back.  Don't compromise on quality because of skill or hardware limitations

[Goran_M]

11 hours ago, Aleksandar said:

Hi Goran.  Yes, I got back into the TBM after a long time, and find it quite disappointing that this "realistic" plane had to be tamed for some people at the cost of realism.  It would be good to have perhaps an alternate option for this?  What I am experiencing is that now instead of more rudder input at rotation, it's aileron.  Shouldn't be so strong as it is...the green mark on the rudder trim is there for a reason Brate!

Please, consider bringing it back.  Don't compromise on quality because of skill or hardware limitations

We MIGHT make a slight adjustment back.  No guarantees at this time.  

[LKN]

I love the TBM900, it's a piece of art.

I'm also very surprised for the sake of realism that HotStar succumbed to the pressure of some users to delete this effect on the rudder. It doesn't match the philosophy imo.

I mean if we decide to purchase this plane I do believe that it's not to fly her with a mouse and press some touchs on the keyboard to start the engine in order to make life easier?

Please bring it back!

Keep up the great work and inspiration guys!

 

[Gregg Seipp]

On 12/15/2019 at 1:50 AM, brettnicholls said:

Hi I have XPlane running in Experimental mode. According to the new info Prop Wash has been implemented to give a better effect. Taking off with the rudder set in the middle, yes I know it’s supposed to be to the Green mark, but I’m not seeing any pull to the left. According to Austin I should be hard on the rudder trying to keep it on the centre line. Any thought guys.

This would probably ONLY be a good idea for people with force-feedback rudder pedals.  When you taking off, the propwash and other forces causes the airplane to want to turn left causing the left pedal to go down and the right one to come up.  You feel that in the pedals and have to press the right pedal to (more or less) keep them even.  Force-feedback pedals are perfect for that situation since the right pedal would come up and you'd have to force it back down.  Without force-feedback pedals you'd have to guess where that "even" place is....e.g. where the nose wheel is straight.  Is it this much right pedal down?...or this much?  In other words, it's not any more realistic...you're having to press a pedal down that should be coming up but it isn't because there's no feedback in the pedals.  The idea of adding a little propwash isn't a bad one...but a realistic amount would only have you dealing with pedals that are not giving you the feedback the real airplane gives to real pilots.

Gregg

[Aleksandar]

19 hours ago, Goran_M said:

We MIGHT make a slight adjustment back.  No guarantees at this time.  

It would be good.  If we make this kind of sacrifice, then how do we have faith in the authenticity of the rest of the flight model when so much has changed since release?  Between your adjustments and X-Plane updates, I've had to relearn how to fly this bird more than once. Other than 'extra features', what differentiates anything Car#$*do would do?

[Aleksandar]

10 hours ago, Gregg Seipp said:

This would probably ONLY be a good idea for people with force-feedback rudder pedals.  When you taking off, the propwash and other forces causes the airplane to want to turn left causing the left pedal to go down and the right one to come up.  You feel that in the pedals and have to press the right pedal to (more or less) keep them even.  Force-feedback pedals are perfect for that situation since the right pedal would come up and you'd have to force it back down.  Without force-feedback pedals you'd have to guess where that "even" place is....e.g. where the nose wheel is straight.  Is it this much right pedal down?...or this much?  In other words, it's not any more realistic...you're having to press a pedal down that should be coming up but it isn't because there's no feedback in the pedals.  The idea of adding a little propwash isn't a bad one...but a realistic amount would only have you dealing with pedals that are not giving you the feedback the real airplane gives to real pilots.

Gregg

Left pedal down....is this something on force feedback pedals? If not, this isn't right.  The right pedal is down to compensate, not neutral.  On my rudders, just like in real life, you 'dance' to keep it centered, and each time it's a bit different depending on how much power is being produced and the prevailing winds. The ONLY time I ever have to put in almost no rudder is with a right crosswind, but I always have to add more rudder on rotation, not aileron.

As bad as sim rudders are, we need to practice to compensate for this.  (I have an easier time as I'm using VKB MkIV T-Rudder pedals...more accurate).

[Gregg Seipp]

3 hours ago, Aleksandar said:

Left pedal down....is this something on force feedback pedals? If not, this isn't right.

The only set I've seen are these that cost 1800 euro:  https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-rudder-with-toe-brakes/

This is the one piece of equipment an airplane has that force feedback would be useful for in simming, imo...but, perhaps, not enough to justify 1,800 euro.  

[flexxAir]

I am a bit confused now because afair in another thread it was mentioned to turn the experimental FM off because the devs aren't using it...?

[Gregg Seipp]

1 hour ago, flexxAir said:

I am a bit confused now because afair in another thread it was mentioned to turn the experimental FM off because the devs aren't using it...?

I tried it and it seemed to work pretty well, apart from the nose of the airplane bobbing up and down gently in flight and on the ramp.  But the same thing happens with my other planes so it´s not a TBM problem.

[Goran_M]

For this latest update, we used the experimental flight model.

[Cal1664]

Goran, 

when I’m using the experimental flight model I feel like the elevator authority is lack in the flair during landing. Have you guys noticed this?

Edited January 13, 2020 by Cal1664

[Goran_M]

1 hour ago, Cal1664 said:

Goran, 

when I’m using the experimental flight model I feel like the elevator authority is lack in the flair during landing. Have you guys noticed this?

Works fine on this end.  Did you adjust your curves at all?  This may have had an effect.  Also, check control stiffening.  

[Cal1664]

No I Don’t have any curves. I noticed that subsonic pilot on the discord noted the same feelings. Just thought I’d post on here. I seem to be having to pull all the way in the flair and still end up slamming down crossing the numbers at the normal speed even when light. 

[Goran_M]

We'll take a look

[Gregg Seipp]

12 hours ago, Cal1664 said:

No I Don’t have any curves. I noticed that subsonic pilot on the discord noted the same feelings. Just thought I’d post on here. I seem to be having to pull all the way in the flair and still end up slamming down crossing the numbers at the normal speed even when light. 

I've wondered about that too but try cutting power 1-2 seconds prior to your flair.  Lots of RW pilots on youtube use that technique.

[Cal1664]

I usually cut the power just before the flair. Wonder if leaving a bit of power on will help with the elevator authority? 
 

Goran can you please let us know your findings.