BaBene Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 3 hours ago, Cameron said: You're wrong. Distance has been increased to an insane degree. These images depict use of RWC, so it's possible for edges TO exist...just like they would eventually end in real life too. Of course, that's assuming you ramp up the new draw distance coverage. I've been running it with satisfactory results here. To be quite honest here, I wouldn't go that far and call an increase of the cloud draw distance by ~40%, resulting in 120km or 86nm from the cockpits perspective an increase to an insane degree. I asked for that before, I really would like to see a mid-haul flight video (going to high altitudes), any chances for that? There are some great weather transitions right now happening in central europe, e.g. flying from northern Germany to Austria or Switzerland. My biggest issue with SMP v3 at the moment are the bad weather transitions. They became especially noticeable in my recent flights to Salzburg and Geneva. Those two airports had some really bad IMC conditions, but the transition e.g. from Munich to Salzburg wasn't immersive at all. I was almost able to view Salzburg a couple nm outbound Munich, when all of a sudden the visibility changed to a couple hundred meteres in a matter of seconds with no clouds visible at all (there should have been some clouds according to the METAR). And yes I do use RWC. Pictures won't give me an impression whether that issue is resolved or not, so a video would be really appreciated. However, I do appreciate that you posted some high altitude screenshots here, though I'd love to know the METAR reports of the nearest station and the actual altitude of that shots. I for one am not able to judge the correct altitude simply by looking at a 2D picture. It is my believe that only videos are able to tell the true story, or at least give you a correct impression, of a weather addon. You are not developing a static scenery, it is supposed to be a dynamic simulation of the weather, with transitions and such. Although your screenshots do look nice most of the time, even freeware cloud textures can do so on screenshots taken at the right moment from the right angle. Best regards, BaBene 3
gcharrie Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Hi, Just for information from the AS2016 editor support forum, a quick search gave this topic : >>> The following products have reached end-of-life and are no longer officially supported: >>> Active Sky v1 (2002) >>> Active Sky wxRE (2002) >>> Active Sky 2004 (2004) ... >>> Active Sky X (2007) Just to show that : Active Sky has been in development since 2002... not Sky max pro (correct me if I'm wrong). So why come here and compare the 2 products ???? Improving such a product need lots of iterations and many years... AS2016 AND SMP are both very good examples of product constantly improving, of serious editors listening to the customers. SMP is not perfect but I follow SMP since the begining and it is better and better... and it will probably become the AS2016 for x-plane ;-) Good flight everyone... Edited December 9, 2016 by gcharrie
HamSammich Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 Gcharrie, I'll just say I'll be as happy as anyone if you're right. Best, Marshall 1
3saul Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 1 hour ago, sundog said: We focus on what our customers tell us, not on competitors. 48 minutes ago, gcharrie said: Hi, Just for information from the AS2016 editor support forum, a quick search gave this topic : >>> The following products have reached end-of-life and are no longer officially supported: >>> Active Sky v1 (2002) >>> Active Sky wxRE (2002) >>> Active Sky 2004 (2004) ... >>> Active Sky X (2007) Just to show that : Active Sky has been in development since 2002... not Sky max pro (correct me if I'm wrong). So why come here and compare the 2 products ???? Improving such a product need lots of iterations and many years... AS2016 AND SMP are both very good examples of product constantly improving, of serious editors listening to the customers. SMP is not perfect but I follow SMP since the begining and it is better and better... and it will probably become the AS2016 for x-plane ;-) Good flight everyone... True. It is important to note, speaking for myself, that time spent feeding back here on the forum is a genuine effort to improve the product. The only reason I might have in comparing with other products is because it's easier to reference what they're already doing well than trying to describe in text. There is no criticism intended, I think SMP is great or I wouldn't waste my time here. 2
JohnMAXX Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 Well if it were up to Marshall we will all be flying whats called P3D-Plane and HE will be happy. I am a bit concerned that your customer experience has been less then perfect for sure but some of your replies here are pretty harsh indeed. For one going after Frank and his abilities is downright rude and absolutely ridiculous...... I'm very curious as to what kind of background gives you the ability to make such rude comments? I see it very differently then you, and not because I am involved but Frank is an extremely talented and professional programmer. This is a completely different platform with a different set of rules and as we develop we are making progress with weather representation........Lets be direct we are not producing something and marketing it as anything else, comparing us to that particular Charlie Brown scene insinuates we are lying to you prior to purchase, and that is not the case in the least. We have our OWN vision and we are driving down our OWN path which is in turn influenced by our customers as we grow, onboard? No? that's OK My feelings are you're expecting something way out of line with what we are offering and just like any consumer look at all information we provide before you make a decision. If your expectations aren't met initially by all means vote with your wallet.... 1
Cameron Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 To be quite honest here, I wouldn't go that far and call an increase of the cloud draw distance by ~40%, resulting in 120km or 86nm from the cockpits perspective an increase to an insane degree. I asked for that before, I really would like to see a mid-haul flight video (going to high altitudes), any chances for that? There are some great weather transitions right now happening in central europe, e.g. flying from northern Germany to Austria or Switzerland. My biggest issue with SMP v3 at the moment are the bad weather transitions. They became especially noticeable in my recent flights to Salzburg and Geneva. Those two airports had some really bad IMC conditions, but the transition e.g. from Munich to Salzburg wasn't immersive at all. I was almost able to view Salzburg a couple nm outbound Munich, when all of a sudden the visibility changed to a couple hundred meteres in a matter of seconds with no clouds visible at all (there should have been some clouds according to the METAR). And yes I do use RWC. Pictures won't give me an impression whether that issue is resolved or not, so a video would be really appreciated. However, I do appreciate that you posted some high altitude screenshots here, though I'd love to know the METAR reports of the nearest station and the actual altitude of that shots. I for one am not able to judge the correct altitude simply by looking at a 2D picture. It is my believe that only videos are able to tell the true story, or at least give you a correct impression, of a weather addon. You are not developing a static scenery, it is supposed to be a dynamic simulation of the weather, with transitions and such. Although your screenshots do look nice most of the time, even freeware cloud textures can do so on screenshots taken at the right moment from the right angle. Best regards, BaBene Good heavens, relax. Not just you, but all of you. I stand by my statement of an insane increase. In order for us to extend it where we did we had to optimize to even allow it. You're so focused on the visual that it's not allowing you to see the technical. And, before you start bringing up what freeware may sometimes look like, or what a product in another FS may look like...consider SkyMaxx Pro 3 and its 3D properties (it took up until this year for MSFS to have its first 3D clouds from REX). We are not going to sit here with all these custom video requests. Trust me, YouTube will be filled with all of that within a week if not a day of release. For the moment we are very busy working with testers and using their feedback to improve on each beta build (5 alone in the last week). In the middle of it we are showing you previews as a little fun. We don't have to do it if you'd rather sit in here and debate or argue stuff about something you don't even have yet. I'm not offended here, but I know how hard these guys developing this software work, and I have a higher appreciation for it. Try appreciating the previews for now rather than figuring out how you can attempt to tear it down before it's even in your hands. We haven't even got the preview video out yet! 3 1
3saul Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) No problem, I'll be patient. Conversely the team should be flattered by the attention! Edited December 9, 2016 by 3saul 1
JoseCFII Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 What I'm starting to deduce is that devs have to work within the limitations of X=Plane. I also use AS16/ASCA as a benchmark to what I'm hoping is possible in XP 10 & 11. It's the features I'd like to see in the sim, but it doesn't matter how I get them: SMP v4 + RWC + FSGRW The new add-on recently released comes close to depicting the weather as AS16/ASCA, but it's still in the early stages. I appreciate and will always support devs who strive for excellence customer satisfaction and you guys have proven that you do. Looking forward to SMP v4.
BaBene Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, Cameron said: Good heavens, relax. Not just you, but all of you. I stand by my statement of an insane increase. In order for us to extend it where we did we had to optimize to even allow it. You're so focused on the visual that it's not allowing you to see the technical. And, before you start bringing up what freeware may sometimes look like, or what a product in another FS may look like...consider SkyMaxx Pro 3 and its 3D properties (it took up until this year for MSFS to have its first 3D clouds from REX). We are not going to sit here with all these custom video requests. Trust me, YouTube will be filled with all of that within a week if not a day of release. For the moment we are very busy working with testers and using their feedback to improve on each beta build (5 alone in the last week). In the middle of it we are showing you previews as a little fun. We don't have to do it if you'd rather sit in here and debate or argue stuff about something you don't even have yet. I'm not offended here, but I know how hard these guys developing this software work, and I have a higher appreciation for it. Try appreciating the previews for now rather than figuring out how you can attempt to tear it down before it's even in your hands. We haven't even got the preview video out yet! I am totally relaxed and don't really understand your reaction to my comment, as I tried to be polite and calm. Of course I am focused on the visuals. I am not involved in the development of the product so why should I care much about the technical aspects? After all the outcome of your efforts will be a visual representation of the weather. This will solely be judged by it's visuals and performance, and not by the algorithms used. I'm neither debating nor arguing about stuff that I don't even have yet. I just put your published numbers into a different perspective and gave you my opinion that 86nm cloud draw distance isn't exactly what I would call "increase to an insane degree". If you don't agree than that is fine. The comment in the latter half of my post was based on my experience with SMP v3, a product which I do have for quite some time now. And as I said I do appreciate the previews you gave us. Don't you appreciate constructive and questioning user/customer feedback? As a customer I just wanted to make clear what problems I'm facing with SMP v3, since you are not going into much detail in your announcements whether these problems will be fixed I just kindly asked for a video. 3
Cameron Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 I am totally relaxed and don't really understand your reaction to my comment, as I tried to be polite and calm. Really? Wow. Of course I am focused on the visuals. I am not involved in the development of the product so why should I care much about the technical aspects? You don't care about frame rates? That's a technical aspect, and I substantiated where I'm coming from by giving the 3D aspect as part of that argument. That goes hand in hand with performance. You seem to want to ignore this. I'm neither debating nor arguing about stuff that I don't even have yet. You absolutely are! You're worked up trying to correct me about your interpretation that a 86nm cloud draw extension is not a huge improvement. Give me a break, man. There comes a threshold that further extension doesn't even make sense, so yes, again, I maintain this is an insane draw distance increase for a not so hefty performance impact. Compare that to the v3 performance impact with the slider basically half the distance and my response again is the same. 3
lanmancz Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 55 minutes ago, JoseCFII said: The new add-on recently released comes close to depicting the weather as AS16/ASCA, but it's still in the early stages. You mean the one which starts with x and ends with o ? I have to come to defend SMP here a little because that product, while it can look okay in some screenshots looks quite awful compared to SMP (even v3) after a closer inspection - low resolution, completely flat, endlessly repeating cloud sprites that look very bad in motion (see some vids on YT). Not to mention the steep price for what looks like a beta release with missing features (custom weather). To me the only issues I had with SMPv3 was somewhat low view distance from up high (I mostly fly airliners) and I am looking forward to see how v4 will perform. One thing that nobody can deny is that SMP clouds are nice and volumetric, not ugly 2d blobs like its 2006. 1 1
AoA_22 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 Cameron, I'm just going to be blunt. The way you respond to your customer base is pathetic. You get a polite comment/question/critique and you for some reason take it personally and get super defensive about it. You're the face of the company, so you really should at least be as respectful if not more respectful in your responses than the person you're responding to. That is, if you care about you or your company's reputation. BaBene is absolutely right: Quote I am totally relaxed and don't really understand your reaction to my comment, as I tried to be polite and calm. Of course I am focused on the visuals. I am not involved in the development of the product so why should I care much about the technical aspects? After all the outcome of your efforts will be a visual representation of the weather. This will solely be judged by it's visuals and performance, and not by the algorithms used. Let's say Ford made a family sedan last year that yields 15 mpg. Their potential customers say big improvements are needed, and Ford improves that car the next year to get 18 mpg. Then the customers say it's better but still has a long way to go. How pathetic would it be for Ford to start throwing out excuses and saying the customer must not care about technical aspects of the process. What matter are results. Not excuses. All I'm saying is you need to chill out and quit telling other people to chill out. You have to be able to deal with polite discourse in the community if you're the face of the company. 2
JohnMAXX Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 AoA_22 But what if that Ford is getting 35mpg now? That's what we are looking at, no excuses being implemented by any of us. His request for a medium to long distance flight has popped up on a couple posts now. It isn't going to happen, plain and simple, we are going to allow the community with V4 as with previous versions show this. Streams using V3 are all over the web and available to anyone with an internet connection. Im positive V4 streams will populate the web very quickly......Apparently any claims we put forward are going to scrutinized by the community anyway so let people who aren't associated with development share their feelings, fair enough right?........ This is all funny, because I asked Jason to post some high altitude shots since I seen some community members asking for them, that's all this post is, now this thread has spiraled into what Ill call a HOT MESS...... Cameron's point is we are focused on development right now and want to ensure we put as much refinement into V4 prior to a release. Ill have the AI fly a heavy on one system while I develop and I'm keeping an eye on some of these issues that pop up, Ill post small snippets from time to time but I don't have the time to put together a long haul......The best you'll get out of us right now is we are happy with where the BETA is going.......Is that fair? Or should we waste more time making videos before the product is 100% ready? This could potentially lead to misconceptions as to what SMP offers, right? Im really puzzled by this continued dialog which has undertones of distrust, frankly I am getting sick of it since it isn't what we are about. None of us are getting rich off of this and speaking for myself SMP came about because I am an enthusiast and want a better overall experience for the XP community...... 1 1
Cameron Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 Cameron, I'm just going to be blunt. The way you respond to your customer base is pathetic. You get a polite comment/question/critique and you for some reason take it personally and get super defensive about it. I do believe I mentioned earlier this doesn't affect me in that way. It's human interaction, and I'm not going to sit here and allow one way pounce action. This is not Ford or any other big corporate company. This is a group of individuals bringing stuff to hobbyists alike. My point is there is some very unnecessary drama being created in a pre-release preview thread. It's quite frankly silly. Bear in mind I see all posts on this forum daily, and I may have a bit more context than you when it comes to the history of a specific individuals postings in another thread. I don't expect you to have that same context in mind. 1 1
Yidahoo Posted December 9, 2016 Author Report Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) So did anyone like the pictures? I am a bit bemused by all this. I just wanted to share some images I took at altitude not spark an argument. It reminds me of an old sports commentary. "I went to the hockey game and a boxing match broke out" Edited December 9, 2016 by Yidahoo 2 1
donoscar Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 please release it to end these discussions ... have no popcorn left 1
HamSammich Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 To Yidahoo, Lovely pictures. . .Now back to the fights. To Cameron, "Im really puzzled by this continued dialog which has undertones of distrust, frankly I am getting sick of it since it isn't what we are about." And there's the nub of it, wounded pride, and a sense of being misunderstood. A friend does high-level PR and hears this a lot. CEOs tell her this and she gives them a simple answer: Tough. Too bad. Suck it up. She also asks them to consider what they've done to earn this impression, because the alternative is they've got a uniquely different bunch of customers and, even if they do, it's suicidal to let the customers know that. So her bottom line to these executives is if they think they're misunderstood, mistrusted, etc., then they have somehow earned it. For Cameron, ask yourself why IXEG is not mistrusted, why LES is not mistrusted, why both have earned a reservoir of good will and SkyMaxx has not. As for your wounded pride, because you yourself know you're not getting rich, it's hard work, you put in long hours, the X-Plane platform makes it hard to develop weather add-ons in: All of that is praiseworthy. And irrelevant. Person-to-person? I admire it. Truly. Customer to company, especially if the product is subpar? I. Could. Not. Care. Less. Best, Marshall 2 1
Defiance_co Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 Yidahoo, I loved your pics The topics going fubar Slap pics up every ten minutes my good man ! I will endure the teasing, might even cool some collars down Peace Tony 2
xXNightEagleXx Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 First i read this 7 hours ago, Cameron said: Trust me, YouTube will be filled with all of that within a week.... Then i read this 7 hours ago, Cameron said: ... if not a day.... At this point in my mind cameron was leaking a release date (obviously i was kind happy), but then.... 7 hours ago, Cameron said: ... of release. For the moment we are very busy working with testers and using their feedback to improve on each beta build (5 alone in the last week). I ...nooooo! 2
JohnMAXX Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 15 minutes ago, HamSammich said: Tough. Too bad. Suck it up. You are right Marshall thank you for your time on this, sorry if you've spent too much already. I'm hoping you can gain some of it back later......... You've gotten your point across and I highly suggest you stand clear for your well being and we are truly sorry for trying to express our opinions on the matter we should suck it up!
Cameron Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 47 minutes ago, HamSammich said: To Cameron, "Im really puzzled by this continued dialog which has undertones of distrust, frankly I am getting sick of it since it isn't what we are about." And there's the nub of it, wounded pride, and a sense of being misunderstood. Why are you telling me this? The quote you're referencing and responding to did not come from me, nor am I phased by what you're talking about. My skin is a bit thicker than that. 47 minutes ago, HamSammich said: For Cameron, ask yourself why IXEG is not mistrusted, why LES is not mistrusted, why both have earned a reservoir of good will and SkyMaxx has not. SkyMaxx Pro has sold more units than any product in X-Plane. I'm quite sure it's well trusted, Marshall. This line is pure speculation...just because a handful of bar peanuts worth of people are complaining here means nothing. The many thousands of others are just fine, happy, and many often write in about their satisfaction all the time. 47 minutes ago, HamSammich said: As for your wounded pride, because you yourself know you're not getting rich, it's hard work, you put in long hours, the X-Plane platform makes it hard to develop weather add-ons in: All of that is praiseworthy. And irrelevant. Rich is subjective, and I've made no comment to allow you to interpret how much I make, but I do well enough to be quite happy and I'll leave it there. I have plenty in life to brag about, but I won't. 47 minutes ago, HamSammich said: I. Could. Not. Care. Less. Then perhaps don't buy it. There's no need to be witty and fill your short story posts here with a bunch of fluff like you're used to doing for the likes of Anderson Cooper and any other media in your normal day job. I'm sure our President-Elect would have some choice words in here too. Somehow he got elected...guess not everyone always agrees with the likes of you, eh Marshall? Anyways, the focus of this thread was to show some higher altitude shots. My asking to simmer down had nothing to do with saving pride...it's just not necessary for the time being. Right now we're all just wasting time. To all others: Enjoy. Until next time, thread closed. 1 1
Recommended Posts